OLED Burn In Risk

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
:) Spoken like a good Lawyer , Aaron !
You have a point , if Burn In isn't an issue why not include it in the warranty ?
As for our previous poster who encountered BI after just 14 weeks of use with his Panasonic FZ802B [ which is on my shortlist ] who then had to plead with John Lewis to get in touch with Panasonic - to me after just 14 weeks of use that is a fault not Burn In and JL should have dealt with it immediately .
These are the problems we all face when trying to decide on our new TV .
hahaha!

Its funny as I'm actually a big fan of OLED and my next TV Purchase will be a 77 inch C9 whenever it drops to a decent price or just settle on the 65 inch C9/10.

However what I don't like is people being uninformed about their purchases when it can comeback to bite them in the butt.
 
This week I'm going to keep notes of every logo I see in the TV programmes I watch - actually might make that next week as we have my wife's sister and her husband coming up for a week so viewing will be different to normal .
Funny how I didn't notice those logos in the past or their colouring - buying a new TV is certainly an experience these days !
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member



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This week I'm going to keep notes of every logo I see in the TV programmes I watch - actually might make that next week as we have my wife's sister and her husband coming up for a week so viewing will be different to normal .
Funny how I didn't notice those logos in the past or their colouring - buying a new TV is certainly an experience these days !

lol just buy a tv mate.

if u have kids, i'd edge towards FALD cos its hard to control kids viewing habits. if you don't or your kids are grownup-ish or can be trusted, OLED.

at the end of the day most burn is is most visible on a red screen.. when are u gonna view an all red screen except for this OCD-inducing forum?

shop around, find someone who will email you in wrtiing that they will cover burn in and take it from them. i think currys teamknowhow told me over the phoen they would. then just enjoy the TV and never check slides except when u first buy one to make sure u have minimal banding.

or if ur going the safe route with a FALD, just get a Q90R or a secondhand panasonic 902B or a second hand Sony ZD9 or second hand Samsung Q9FN. Any of those sets have 90-95% of the PQ of an OLED without the IR but have their own flaws in return (halo, Backlight banding).

With HDMI 2.1 here, I think buying a second hand FALD at a good price is really not a bad decision. I'm interested to see what happens in 2020.
 
Thank you for all your advice Aoaaron .
Can you only see Burn In using a red screen then ?
I watched Vincent's video and saw him changing the screen to a variety of colours .
 

Drax1

Distinguished Member
.
Vincent Teohs burn in test

In Vincent Teohs burn in test he took 4 static images and rotated them every four hours for twenty hours a day. After 6 months there was no sign of burn in. His analysis was that it is very unlikely that you will experience burn in on your OLED TV if it is a 2018 or later model.
I'm on the cusp of buying a 2018 LG OLED65B8S (now only £1499).Loved the shop demo,but having last minute worries over screenburn. I'm not a gamer,don't really watch sport and will use it mainly for movies and streaming. I've been told in advance to leave it on for 5 minutes on standby after use to leave the screen wash tech to move the pixals. Am 90% there with a decision, but need a final push. Would stumping up extra for a 2019 Model likely make any difference?
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I'm on the cusp of buying a 2018 LG OLED65B8S (now only £1499).Loved the shop demo,but having last minute worries over screenburn. I'm not a gamer,don't really watch sport and will use it mainly for movies and streaming. I've been told in advance to leave it on for 5 minutes on standby after use to leave the screen wash tech to move the pixals. Am 90% there with a decision, but need a final push. Would stumping up extra for a 2019 Model likely make any difference?

Get it they are Beautiful.

Burn in isn’t the end of the world.
 
Hi Aoaaron - you say Burn In isn't the end of the world -
I've never witnessed Burn In - could you tell me why you would say that BI isn't important to you - does it not spoil ordinary viewing ? Genuine question , not being funny or anything .
If BI isn't the end of the world why do so many people complain about it wanting their screens replaced ? I could cope with BI if it could only be seen under certain circumstances , like when using a red screen but if it spoils ordinary viewing then it's something to be concerned about .
 

Drax1

Distinguished Member
In terms of screen burn, what if movies are played for a lot of the time with the 'letterbox' black bars at the top and bottom. Could I expect marks there in the short term?
 

zeppelino

Distinguished Member
In terms of screen burn, what if movies are played for a lot of the time with the 'letterbox' black bars at the top and bottom. Could I expect marks there in the short term?

No. The pixels will be turned off completely in the black bars.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Hi Aoaaron - you say Burn In isn't the end of the world -
I've never witnessed Burn In - could you tell me why you would say that BI isn't important to you - does it not spoil ordinary viewing ? Genuine question , not being funny or anything .
If BI isn't the end of the world why do so many people complain about it wanting their screens replaced ? I could cope with BI if it could only be seen under certain circumstances , like when using a red screen but if it spoils ordinary viewing then it's something to be concerned about .


It’s subjective. I think a bit of burn in is definitley annoying but it’s no worse than halo effect, poor blacks, backlight banding, flickering, poor motion, poor pixel response time, black smear which lcds have sometimes
 

Unopinionated

Active Member
Data on 97,554 TVs owned by Consumer Reports members who purchased a new set between 2010 and 2018 has been collected. Many of these TVs are OLEDs. If Burn In was a common problem I am sure Consumer Reports would mention it.

You can make anything true or untrue if you search long enough on the wild wild web.

Burn in does occur for people that watch the same static image for twenty hours a day month after month as ratings.com tests demonstrate. See Vincent Teohs burn in test for what’s applicable to 99.9 percent of TV viewers.
 

Unopinionated

Active Member
@OLEDExpert All six of your posts are in this thread. Do you work for LG Display??
I am an aerospace engineer. This site is to discuss different interpretations of the facts and/or perceived facts. I believe Consumer Reports is the best place to get reliability data and the best TV reviews. If you use the wild wild web you can find info and facts to support your views whether they are pro or con.
 
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Dodgexander

Moderator
Sadly the fact remains that Samsung offer it and oleds don’t. Times have changed and they should now given how it’s not an issue according to yourself and experts.
Excuse me? I thought we were able to keep a fair and balanced discussion on the topic but it seems like either you aren't reading what I am saying or you simply like to ignore relevant parts of the discussion. At no point have I said its a none issue, I've said many professionals say its a none issue and to most people it isn't.

If you don't have anything good to add to the discussion, please just don't post at all. This thread is created to help people decide if they will be susceptible to burn in or not, its not there to inform people who do have to trends that mean they will be susceptible to burn it to think they will be fine.

In the respect of Samsung's 10 year burn in warranty, Its nothing more than good marketing capitalising on peoples fear of burn in, if it wasn't they wouldn't have introduced it until OLEDs threatened their sales.

Its got nothing to do with times changing at all, in principle OLEDs, like Plasma TVs use self emissive tech and its just the nature of that tech.

Samsung themselves have a very odd stance on OLED tech, they are the leading producers of OLED displays for portable devices, yet in the TV world they try to compete with LG over OLED displays.

Now if there was a scenario where there was often static images on a display it would be tablets and phones compared to TVs.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, its completely blown out of proportion, most people are not going to post and report they have don't have burn in on their TV compared to people that do. If you take the stance that burn in is common on an OLED you should also take the stance that its impossible to buy an LCD TV without its LEDs fading or dying one day, or that its guaranteed that whichever electronic product you buy, that eventually the power supply will fail.

Just understand how the technology works and stop trying to fight it. If you feel you are susceptible, don't buy an OLED.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Data on 97,554 TVs owned by Consumer Reports members who purchased a new set between 2010 and 2018 has been collected. Many of these TVs are OLEDs. If Burn In was a common problem I am sure Consumer Reports would mention it.

You can make anything true or untrue if you search long enough on the wild wild web.

Burn in does occur for people that watch the same static image for twenty hours a day month after month as ratings.com tests demonstrate. See Vincent Teohs burn in test for what’s applicable to 99.9 percent of TV viewers.
This is very true, but you don't hear about this very often. Why? Because people who don't have burn in are A. Less likely to visit the forum to begin with and B. If they do, why are they going to post just to say they didn't get burn in.

I am getting a little sick of discussion getting off topic here, it seems we are all going round in circles. This thread is not to determine whether burn in is an issue or not, its to determine if its an issue to potential buyers based on their own viewing habits.

Any further posts that are off topic and are not related to someones buying decision will be deleted and the thread will be cleaned.
 

Unopinionated

Active Member
This is very true, but you don't hear about this very often. Why? Because people who don't have burn in are A. Less likely to visit the forum to begin with and B. If they do, why are they going to post just to say they didn't get burn in.

If everybody that owned an OLED TV responded on this forum you would have millions of people that never experienced burn in and a very few that had. On these kinds of forums you only get the few people that have experienced burn in.
Burn in of OLED TVs is way overblown.
 
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Drax1

Distinguished Member
Given the very sensitive nature of OLED screens, does anyone know what short of guidelines there are on a different sort of screenburn - the sunshine. The positioning of a new OLED in my lounge means it will be in full sun for about an hour a day. Does anyone use any sort of screen or cover for this, or am I being overly sensitive about it?
 

smashed

Well-known Member
I purchased my OLED from Costco as they offer a 5 year warranty and I know that they have a really good no quibble policy. Much safer than Richer Sounds etc IMO.

Costco had a couple of OLED's on display that had horrific BI / areas of green cloud etc and this was on the B8 (6 months ago) so I know it still exists.
 

Puntoboy

Well-known Member
I have a LG 55" C8 OLED TV. Had it just over a year now. It had to go back to Curry's about 3 months after we bought it as there were a couple of dead pixels. I believe they replaced the panel. Since then, no issues at all with dead pixels or burn in. It's been a great TV although I am a little concerned about burn in. I play Xbox on it so the static graphics concern me a little but I don't often play that long.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Given the very sensitive nature of OLED screens, does anyone know what short of guidelines there are on a different sort of screenburn - the sunshine. The positioning of a new OLED in my lounge means it will be in full sun for about an hour a day. Does anyone use any sort of screen or cover for this, or am I being overly sensitive about it?
Never keep any TV in direct sunlight, it will damage anything over time...not just OLEDs.

As far as sunlight specially on OLEDs is concerned, some people have reported it caused them damage but I'm more inclined to think its due to the TV overheating when in use. The hotter an electrical component gets, the sooner it will die.
 

P-P-S-S

Well-known Member
I personally think its a small price to pay.

Well, not when one is considering to blow £1.5k and above on a TV.

I upgraded from my Edge lit LCD after 4 years. I now want to upgrade my FALD after 2 years (will likely stretch it to 3). If you're buying a TV for longevity, an OLED probably isn't the safest bet.

You're keeping the FALD less than the edge lit LCD? Also, considering that you're changing TV so often I think it would be helpful that you clarify what you consider "longevity"? LCD for 4 years, FALD 2 years and then you say OLED isnt the best bet for longevity?? It's getting rather confusing.

A FALD like the Q90R is always a healthy compromise.

I would argue that is not the case if a Qled is useless for displaying standard definition footage which, is most of the daily viewing of the average Joe.

Burn in isn’t the end of the world.

But it is the end of the TV. 🤔

I have been struggling to make a decision about whether to get Oled or Qled. And I still remain confused.

My first LCD (Toshiba) served well for a good 7 years before being replaced by the current Samsung LCD (see signature) which has been going for a good 7 years too
When we talk about Oled longevity what timescale are we saying? Will it last 7 years?

Have 2 daughters who do watch cartoon channels for a couple of hours per day however they tend to flick channel every half an hour or so. The TV will be used for about 6-8 hours per day between us all. Never anything static such as radio, etc. Most of the viewing is SD. Might play 4-5 hours per week games (Wii, Xbox, PS4). No direct sunshine will hit the TV. I intend to buy this year's model if I do go ahead. Does this put me in a risky category?

Qled is not that good for SD. Is Oled much better?

Lastly, what is the equivalent of the Q90R from LG, Sony and Panasonic?
 

Unopinionated

Active Member
But it is the end of the TV. 🤔
Is OLED Burn in Overblown by Rtings.com?

Rtings.com gives burn in a 1.0 rating. The worst rating possible.
“OLED TVs such as the LG OLED E9 have an inherent risk of experiencing permanent image retention.”
What does the word inherent mean? There is a reason Rtings.com picked the word inherent to describe OLED burn in and then they peppered this statement throughout their web site.

Almost every time Rtings.com mentions OLED TVs they warn of OLED burn in without mentioning that OLED burn in is going to happen to less than .5% of OLED TVs. I challenge you to count how many times they warn of OLED burn in and how many times they say most people don’t need to be concerned with OLED burn in.

Rtings.com performed a test where they show that if you play the same static image for 20 hours a day for many months OLED TVs are unreliable. LG stated that this would happen on their web site before Rtings.com performed their test. I guess their test proves what LG says on their website. If you try hard enough you can create burn in. The vast majority of OLED TV owners will never experience anything close to this “extreme” condition.

Vincent Teoh performed a normal use burn in test where he rotated 4 static images every four hours for 20 hours a day for 6 months. There was absolutely no sign of burn in. His analysis is that OLED burn in is overblown. This same test had been performed millions of times before Vincent Teohs test with the same result. There are millions of normal use OLED owners who take no special precautions to protect their TVs and have never experienced burn in. Many of their tests have lasted more than 6 months. It is very hard to find anything on Rting.com’s website saying most people will not be affected by permanent OLED burn in. I am sure it is buried somewhere.

Consumer Reports who gathers actual data on problems with OLEDs doesn't mention burn in as anything to be concerned with exceot for the 2015 55EG9600.

Finally you have unmoderated forums that support the OLED burn in theory. Their are millions of OLED owners who take no special precautions to protect their TVs and never experience burn in. When you go to these forums you only hear about the .5% that have experienced burn in. People that are angry and have a point to make visit these sites not the people, like Vincent Teoh, that know OLED burn in is way overblown.

The world is full of anxious people. Another unneeded worry is put in OLED TV viewers by Rtings.com to market their website.

Whats your view? Do you think Rtings.com gives OLED Burn In 1.0 Rting to market their web site or do they really think OLED Burn In is that bad? Why do you think they use the word inherent to describe OLED Burn In with respect to OLED TVs. The overblown OLED Burn In debate sure brings their web site a lot of recognition.
 
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P-P-S-S

Well-known Member
Feel free to delete this thread it is way off the subject. Thanks OLEDExpert

OLEDExpert, first of all, I asked some questions and you went off on some half a page burn in rant which answered none of my questions. Like someone else has said before, all your 10 posts on this forum are banging on about burn in being overblown. It is a strange rant. And you dont need to give permission to anyone to delete a thread or not especially considering that the OP is a moderator and they can certainly make that decision by themselves if and when they see fit.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Is OLED Burn in Overblown?

Vincent Teoh, Dodgexander, and most expert reviewers say Burn In is overblown

Rtings.com gives burn in a 1.0 rating. The worst rating possible.

Almost every time Rtings.com mentions OLED TVs they warn of OLED burn in without mentioning that OLED burn in is going to happen to less than .1% of OLED TVs.

Rtings.com performed a test where they show that if you play the same static image for 20hours a day for many months OLED TVs are unreliable. LG stated that this would happen on their web site before Rtings.com performed their test. I guess their test proves what LG says on their website. If you try hard enough you can create burn in.

Vincent Teoh performed a normal use burn in test where he rotated 4 static images every four hours for 20 hours a day for 6 months. There was absolutely no sign of burn in. His analysis is that OLED burn in is overblown. This same test had been performed millions of times before Vincent Teohs test with the same result. There are millions of normal use OLED owners who take no special precautions to protect their TVs and have never experienced burn in. Many of their tests have lasted more than 6 months.

Consumer Reports who gathers actual data on problems with OLEDs doesn't mention burn in as anything to be concerned with.

Finally you have forums that support the OLED burn in theory. Their are many more people who haven't experienced burn in than have. When you go to these forums you only hear about the .1% that have experienced burn in. People that are angry and have a point to make visit these sites not the people, like Vincent Teoh, that know OLED burn in is way overblown.

Whats your view? Do you think Rtings.com gives OLED Burn In 1.0 Rting to market their web site or do they really think OLED burn in is that bad? The overblown OLED burn in debate sure brings their web site a lot of recognition.

From: Adam Babcock [mailto:[email protected]]

Subject: Re: Why do you rate the burn in risk as a 1.0 for OLED's? Every other reviewer says burn in shouldn't be a concern for the majority of consumers,

Thanks for your email!

It really depends on the content, but burn-in can be a very real thing. We have been running a long term burn-in test with 6 identical OLED TVs, with the hopes of finding out what types of content are more likely to show burn-in. With mixed usage, we found that most people shouldn't have any issues. Depending on what you watch though, burn-in can be a significant concern, especially if you watch a lot of content with static elements. For example, our two TVs that display CNN showed signs of burn-in after around 1500 hours. We've also received many reports of burn-in from our readers.

This is why we give OLED TVs a score of 1.0. We don't currently have the means to evaluate the actual likelihood of burn-in with different TVs, so we don't know if 2018/2019 models are less-likely to burn-in, so we give all OLED TVs the same score to highlight that it is a real possibility.

Thanks,
Adam Babcock

RTINGS.com


Feel free to delete this thread it is way off the subject. Thanks OLEDExpert
Please lets keep it on topic, if rtings.com decide to rate burn in that way its up to them, nothing to do with this thread which is helping people decide if they will be prone to burn in or not. I think I already made it very clear in the OP, and various other posts in this thread that it really is an overblown issue, but how another website decides to rate one aspect of their reviews is up to them, it plays no bearing on the outcome of what people will think when visiting here to make a decision.
I have been struggling to make a decision about whether to get Oled or Qled. And I still remain confused.
QLED is just a name for a series of mid-to-high range LCD TVs, its not an entire new technology like OLED.
When we talk about Oled longevity what timescale are we saying? Will it last 7 years?
There's no reason to be worried about longevity if you have mixed usage. Its no different to the longevity of Plasma TVs and there are plenty of those knocking about more than 7 years old.
Have 2 daughters who do watch cartoon channels for a couple of hours per day however they tend to flick channel every half an hour or so. The TV will be used for about 6-8 hours per day between us all. Never anything static such as radio, etc. Most of the viewing is SD. Might play 4-5 hours per week games (Wii, Xbox, PS4). No direct sunshine will hit the TV. I intend to buy this year's model if I do go ahead. Does this put me in a risky category?
I don't think that sounds like you will be at risk at all, even less so if you buy an LG with the auto logo dimming feature. The only thing that I'd think about is not using the TV for 6-8 hours straight. Make sure in the down time that it goes into standby so it can perform its compensation cycles to clear any image retention.

If you are looking for the kind of TV you can keep on for 6-8 hour a day, every day and not have gaps where its in standby inbetween then that is when you may consider going for an LCD.
Qled is not that good for SD. Is Oled much better?
SD is just a resolution and OLED/LCD TVs are generally all UHD now. So the upscaling that needs to be done on each TV is equal.

An OLED will bring you bigger gains in picture quality across board since new technology gives you gains everywhere. By comparison higher end LCD TVs don't really look that much better than cheaper ones until you use HDR content, so they will be less impressive for most peoples every day use.

Lastly, what is the equivalent of the Q90R from LG, Sony and Panasonic?
Panasonic's last high end TV was my own TVl; the DX902 from 2016. They place all efforts into OLED in the high end now.

Sony's high end TV is the 2018 ZF9, they have a XG9505 model which is similar to the Samsung Q80R overall.

LG's LCDs are not to be compared with other models, even the SUHD ones are poor overall options with picture quality and have poor HDR picture quality especially.
 

Unopinionated

Active Member
OLEDExpert, first of all, I asked some questions and you went off on some half a page burn in rant which answered none of my questions. Like someone else has said before, all your 10 posts on this forum are banging on about burn in being overblown. It is a strange rant. And you dont need to give permission to anyone to delete a thread or not especially considering that the OP is a moderator and they can certainly make that decision by themselves if and when they see fit.
I was talking about deleting the thread I wrote not yours.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
I am glad Dodgexander was able to answer your questions.
 
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