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OLED Burn In Risk

Dodgexander

Moderator
It's a hot topic right now and you can understand why, so you have £1500+~ to spend on a new TV, there is a TV that hits all the boxes and its an OLED...but..

Oh my god no! Burn in is not covered by warranty, this means I am going to have a problem!!!

Contrary to how it may read sometimes both online in general and here at AVF, burn in is not a common problem with OLEDs, certainly no more of a common problem than it was in the Plasma days.
This forum and the internet in general is a place where people mostly come when they have a problem, there aren't many cases on the forum (or online for that matter) where there is an incentive for someone to tell us how fantastic their OLED is and how they haven't suffered from burn in. People naturally report when they have a problem, not when they don't!
The internet is a wealth of information that can make you believe any TV or any problem is a big one if you search long and hard enough. It's a little similar to when you open a newspaper to page 3, you know what you are getting.

Not only that, but OLEDs now are the TV to own, they are at their lowest in price they have ever been and they offer upgrades for most people in all areas compared to LCDs at a price where not only enthusiasts can afford them, but many regular Joes like you or I too.
In 2017 they have sold crazy well. Not only sold now by LG, but Panasonic, Sony and Philips too. LG themselves offer the most attractive prices and took a massive leap in the high end market share over Samsung in 2017.

So what do you get on the internet and here on AVF when a TV sells so much?

You are more likely to read an issue, simply because they sold more OLEDs to begin with!!
Believe me, if you moderated on the forums you would see. The OLED related threads (and arguments/disagreements) are two fold compared to any other type of TV. Most of the discussion and traffic here is directed in OLED owners threads!!

The same can be said about every good selling TV though. In 2017 many people reported problems with the Sony XE9005 and its frame repeat issue. Would this be such a hot topic if Sony didn't sell as many TVs? No.

In 2016 the best selling TV by far was the Samsung KS7000 and it was the same again that year, many problems reporting poor build quality, panel issues, motion stutter. If you sell a TV so well, you will see more problems online...it does not mean the TV is a bad buy, often it can seem that way but usually if a TV sells well, it does so for a reason.

It does not mean there is more likely to be a problem just because a TV sells more.

If you look at failure rates or conducted a survey of every OLED owner most people will tell you they haven't even noticed temporary image retention, let alone burn in!

So what do you need to ask yourself when it comes to burn in? What can help you decide whether you risk burn in or not?

Reasons you may suffer from burn in:

You have unusually invariable viewing patterns:
  • Do you like to leave the news channel on all day?
  • Do your children often watch cartoons and leave a cartoon channel on with a static logo in the corner for hours?
  • Do you often play the same video game that has a static hud in the corner for hours?
  • Do you like to use your television for productivity and spend hours looking at the windows taskbar?
You could tick all the boxes above and not be affected by burn in. Burn in isn't just about the length of which you show static/common images, but also how often and how regularly you do.

You have unusually invariable daily and weekly viewing patterns:
  • You are a one channel kind of guy, you hate change and like to have that news channel on for hours at a time every day for hours at a time for weeks.
  • Your children are addicted to the same cartoon channel and you've lost control over them, they relentlessly watch the cartoon channel with that static logo each day for hours, they refuse to go to bed.
  • You are that guy who likes long gaming sessions, but you don't just have the odd one, you like to game for hours at a time as soon as you get home at night until you drop. You never get fed up with a game and you like to play only one game at a time.
  • You intend to use the TV for content creation and as a PC monitor every day, you need to meet those deadlines each week and that requires a lot of time in front of your OLED to get that final project finished. You are a work addict and use your TV this way every day.
Reasons you will not suffer from burn in:
  • You don't meet both the viewing patterns and the daily and weekly viewing patterns above and just use the TV with variation like most people do. Even if you are a big gamer you have a variation in what you play and you use the TV for more than one task.
  • You are sensible and don't leave the same image on the TV for hours.
  • You don't turn off the screensaver feature of the TV.
  • You don't whack the OLED backlight on full and use VIVID picture mode and have your TV incorrectly calibrated.
  • When you pause your TV/Game or leave a static image the TV's screen-saver will appear after 2 minutes. You can also use a source screen size, eg windows/fire tv screensaver etc.
Here are some useful notes and Links:
What happens when you abuse your OLED TV.
What happens when you use your OLED TV for normal tasks.
OLED TV Reliability: Burn-In, & More | LG USA

Useful facts:
  • The risk of burn in with OLEDs is actually less than it was in the Plasma days. It's no more likely to happen now than then.
  • Its not only OLEDs that can suffer from burn in, abuse any type of display (even LCD) and you can get burn in. Just take a look at some of the old LCDs in pubs.
  • Youtube is full of people claiming to be experts and misleading people, do not believe everything you watch on Youtube. I don't want to name and shame but there are some really laughable content creators out there who literally will say anything to make a few extra views. Do not believe their rubbish! I am sure if you read this, you know the kind of channels I am talking about.

Hopefully this helps people make an informed decision and sorts out a lot of the scare mongering and misinformation out there about OLEDs. It should be pretty easy to tell for most people if they think burn in will be a problem or not, just ask yourself the right questions.

If there is anything I have missed or anything you think I should add, please let me know!

EDIT# 16th July 2019.

Its contained in the rtings.com real life test linked above but there is integral info provided by the rtings.com burn in test here:
Current Stance (31/05/2019 - 9064 hours)
Original statement from 11/05/2018: After more than 5000 hours, there has been no appreciable change to the brightness or color gamut of these TVs. Long periods of static content have resulted in some permanent burn-in (see the CNN TVs), however the other TVs with more varied content don't yet have noticeable uniformity issues on normal content. As a result, we don't expect most people who watch varied content without static areas to experience burn-in issues with an OLED TV. Those who display the same static content over long periods of time should consider the risk of burn-in though (such as those who watch lots of news, use the TV as a PC monitor, or play the same game with a bright static HUD). Those who are concerned about the risk of burn-in should go with an LCD TV for the peace of mind.

Note that we expect burn-in to depend on a few factors:

  • The total duration of static content. LG has told us that they expect it to be cumulative, so static content which is present for 30 minutes twice a day is equivalent to one hour of static content once per day.
  • The brightness of the static content. Our maximum brightness CNN TV has more severe burn-in than our 200 nits brightness CNN TV.
  • The colors of the static areas. We found that in our 20/7 Burn-in Test the red sub-pixel is the fastest to degrade, followed by blue and then green.
To see how the results at this 5000 hour point compares to your usage, divide 5000 by the number of hours you watch each type of content per day to find the number of days. For example, someone who plays call of duty or another video game without bright static areas for 2 hours per day may expect similar results after about 2500 days of usage. This corresponds to about 7 years.

We will continue to run this test and collect data, and our stance may change as we obtain more information.

Update 05/31/2019: The TVs have now been running for over 9000 hours (around 5 years at 5 hours every day). Uniformity issues have developed on the TVs displaying Football and FIFA 18, and are starting to develop on the TV displaying Live NBC. Our stance remains the same, we don't expect most people who watch varied content without static areas to experience burn-in issues with an OLED TV.
If you use their method of calculation, you can effectively calculate from your own usage patten how soon it may be that you encounter any burn in on an OLED. In the example they use it would take 7 years of playing the same computer game with the same hud before you start to be at risk. Obviously this is not going to match many peoples usage as most people will not play the same game for 7 years, but it gives you an idea from being able to self-calculate how prone you may be to the risk.
 
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babator

Active Member
I have a feeling that burn in threads will quiet down quite a bit if and when Samsung does go with QD OLED (as reported today)... just a hunch mind you :)
 

aoaaron

Well-known Member
I think this is terrible.
The descriptions really annoy me. "you have deadlines to meet... blahblah".
Please simplify it as an OLED TV is not appropriate as a PC monitor.

The fact is any static elements increase the risk of an OLED if used repeatedly and consistently. That makes certain channels and uses a big issue.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Its terrible if you believe the misinformation out there regarding OLEDs, they even have OLED displays on laptops and phones now that arguably have static images far more than TVs. If it annoys you, don't read, don't believe it, fine by me. I am just trying to help.

I just don't want people being put off through hype and overblown conspiracy. At no point am I denying burn in is an issue, just that its blown massively out of proportion and it only affects a small amount of users.
 

mjcairney

Well-known Member
I think this is terrible.
The descriptions really annoy me. "you have deadlines to meet... blahblah".
Please simplify it as an OLED TV is not appropriate as a PC monitor.

The fact is any static elements increase the risk of an OLED if used repeatedly and consistently. That makes certain channels and uses a big issue.
Why are you having a go at Dodgexander? He has written a well researched and balanced report on the chances of burn-in on OLED TVs and left it up to the reader/prospective purchaser to make his/her own decision as to whether or not it is the right tech for their needs.

He makes the very valid point that the more popular something becomes, the more people buy it and therefore the number of problems increases in line with units sold and more people come online to complain, with few coming to say how good their purchase is.

I can speak as someone well into my third year of OLED TV use and who has never seen a sign of burn-in or image retention, despite watching lots of football on both Sky and BT Sports TV plus a fair amount of Sky News viewing, all of which insist on using Channel logos at all times. That said, I am not a gamer but am sure that applying common sense here would be a big help. I also have a Samsung S7 mobile phone which has an OLED display with no sign of burn-in or image retention either.

If you disagree then fair enough, just go and buy an LCD set with all its inherent uneven backlighting problems.

Martin.
 

Analysis

Well-known Member
If you disagree then fair enough, just go and buy an LCD set with all its inherent uneven backlighting problems.
Agreed.

LCD will never be 100% perfect due to banding and dse, the technology is quite ancient and it looks like the new models are still suffering from all of this in 2018, which is quite shocking to say the least.

It's still a big panel lottery out there, with QC really an unknown depending on make and model.

I'm quite dreading buying a new tv to be honest, started looking two years ago at the KS Series, great tv but it's now falling apart for a lot of people.

I now have much more experience with these things than I did back in 2007, so when I do decide to pull the trigger I know when I get that tv out of it's packaging if I even see any kind of banding or dse I will box it up so fast and back it goes, just like @DevonMike has gone through 15 times until he now has a good XE70.
 

Analysis

Well-known Member
I think this is terrible.
The descriptions really annoy me. "you have deadlines to meet... blahblah".
Please simplify it as an OLED TV is not appropriate as a PC monitor.

The fact is any static elements increase the risk of an OLED if used repeatedly and consistently. That makes certain channels and uses a big issue.
Credit goes to @Dodgexander .

I think his guides are an excellent place to read up for people who need steering in the right direction.

The simple fact is there is enough 'fake news' already out there in the world regarding OLED and Technology in general.
 

aoaaron

Well-known Member
Its terrible if you believe the misinformation out there regarding OLEDs, they even have OLED displays on laptops and phones now that arguably have static images far more than TVs. If it annoys you, don't read, don't believe it, fine by me. I am just trying to help.

I just don't want people being put off through hype and overblown conspiracy. At no point am I denying burn in is an issue, just that its blown massively out of proportion and it only affects a small amount of users.
OLED Screen on the alienware laptops are amazing.

However I believe there is a clear limitation in the technology LG are putting on their OLED panels.

The fact we give them a free pass means they are less likely to put emphasis on fixing it.

By ALL means, please by an OLED and use it as a computer screen and see if you get IR/BURN in <3 months. Most OLED owners I've spoken to have flat out stated not to get it for anything remotely related tot hat activity.
 

dr no

Moderator
I think this is terrible.
The descriptions really annoy me. "you have deadlines to meet... blahblah".
Please simplify it as an OLED TV is not appropriate as a PC monitor.

The fact is any static elements increase the risk of an OLED if used repeatedly and consistently. That makes certain channels and uses a big issue.
@Dodgexander has worked very hard and off his own accord to put this thread together with some really useful information that other members will appreciate very much.
Please moderate your tone and language or else you’ll be moving on swiftly :nono:
 

aoaaron

Well-known Member
@Dodgexander has worked very hard and off his own accord to put this thread together with some really useful information that other members will appreciate very much.
Please moderate your tone and language or else you’ll be moving on swiftly :nono:

Yeah sure, if my tone was a bit aggressive; i apologise for that.


I just can't help but disagree with the way of the descriptions were put forwards. I don't think you need to be "obsessed with deadlines" for an OLED panel to get IR/burn in by being used as a desktop in even 50% usage terms.

BTW I am someone who will buy an OLED panel the moment the current limitation is technology is overcome in regards to IR/Burn in. I'm not a hater of them at all, I just don't see why it should get a free pass on an obvious current limitation, much like LCDs on blooming/black levels/banding.

If LG and retailers covered persistent IR and burn in within warranties.. then it wouldn't be an issue, but its evidently one [which they are aware of and don't want want to deal with]. As consumers, as long as we keep giving companies byes/free passes on these issues, they will KEEP taking advantage. Other manufacturers who have be a lot more stringent with returns and keeping customers happy (such as phone manufacturers, alienware) seem to deal with the issue a lot better.




However once again, I apologise if my tone was rude. It was not the intention.
 

Analysis

Well-known Member
@Dodgexander has worked very hard and off his own accord to put this thread together with some really useful information that other members will appreciate very much.
Please moderate your tone and language or else you’ll be moving on swiftly :nono:
I was going to say this but you already have so enough said!
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Take a look at the 'Real World' burn in test which Rtings are conducting:
Real Life OLED Burn In Test on 6 TVs

After just 6 weeks the burn in on the CNN test is very noticeable, particularly the magenta screen.
This is linked in the OP and I really don't think this will effect anyone in the first category, eg people who use their TV with nominal viewing patterns. 6 weeks of watching CNN constantly and you will get burn in. Whilst my guide is there to dismiss the misinformation online, not to tell anyone burn in isn't possible.

@aoaaron then we have to agree to disagree then, there are of course measures you can take to reduce the risk of it happening even if you do use your OLED a lot in computer use but I still don't agree that they are unsuitable for computer use full stop.

The descriptions in the op are humour to try and help people with little knowledge on the subject place themselves into different categories, they aren't meant to anger or upset anyone so sorry if they did that to you.

You read my guide and it sounds like you fit into the second category or somewhere in between the two, you already feel personally that burn in will effect you so this guide isn't really designed for you, whether you agree with it or not.
 

aoaaron

Well-known Member
This is linked in the OP and I really don't think this will effect anyone in the first category, eg people who use their TV with nominal viewing patterns. 6 weeks of watching CNN constantly and you will get burn in. Whilst my guide is there to dismiss the misinformation online, not to tell anyone burn in isn't possible.

@aoaaron then we have to agree to disagree then, there are of course measures you can take to reduce the risk of it happening even if you do use your OLED a lot in computer use but I still don't agree that they are unsuitable for computer use full stop.

The descriptions in the op are humour to try and help people with little knowledge on the subject place themselves into different categories, they aren't meant to anger or upset anyone so sorry if they did that to you.

You read my guide and it sounds like you fit into the second category or somewhere in between the two, you already feel personally that burn in will effect you so this guide isn't really designed for you, whether you agree with it or not.

For computer use, I can't help but feel they are hugely risky.
For example, windows have the ever present start menu or they have the taskbars for programs.
Similarly with Mac OSX, there can be tonnes of static elements, especially in full screen mode.

I can sometimes go 3-4 hours web browsing *yes on a TV* or photo editting, and that could mean burn in.

I think most computer users involve static elements.


I'm a big fan of OLED but I'd struggle to ever recommend it to anyone hooking a PC up to it unless they are going to baby the TV and be extremely content, regardless of content variation.
 

cs2008

Active Member
This is linked in the OP and I really don't think this will effect anyone in the first category, eg people who use their TV with nominal viewing patterns. 6 weeks of watching CNN constantly and you will get burn in. Whilst my guide is there to dismiss the misinformation online, not to tell anyone burn in isn't possible.
I guess it depends on whether viewing such content on an intermittent basis has any cumulative effect. In their video report (at 4 weeks), they note that there is a degree of memory effect to the burn-in, suggesting that 'nominal viewing patterns' may not entirely solve the problem.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
For computer use, I can't help but feel they are hugely risky.
For example, windows have the ever present start menu or they have the taskbars for programs.
Similarly with Mac OSX, there can be tonnes of static elements, especially in full screen mode.

I can sometimes go 3-4 hours web browsing *yes on a TV* or photo editting, and that could mean burn in.

I think most computer users involve static elements.


I'm a big fan of OLED but I'd struggle to ever recommend it to anyone hooking a PC up to it unless they are going to baby the TV and be extremely content, regardless of content variation.
The thing is this has been an issue before now, ever since Plasma burn in was apparent. Plenty of people have used Plasma TVs for PC use without issue, me included. In fact with more options now with OLEDs to clear up image retention the risk imposed now is far less than it was with Plasma displays.

And also not forgetting that LCDs aren't immune to burn in either, if you keep stationary images on them for long enough.

The fact is most people who are buying an OLED TV who also use it as a PC will be using it either for HTPC use or gaming, both have stationary images and they may also do some web browsing/general use from time to time. Most people with this use will and do never have a problem, even with the first gen OLED TVs.

The thread points out its not just about what you do, but also how often you do it. Because frankly a lot of info out there is scaring people away from purchasing an OLED just because they read about this information (where they usually neglect to add details of repetitive usage) and they think its going to be a major problem to them because they have read it is to someone else.

I guess it depends on whether viewing such content on an intermittent basis has any cumulative effect. In their video report (at 4 weeks), they note that there is a degree of memory effect to the burn-in, suggesting that 'nominal viewing patterns' may not entirely solve the problem.
But this is a test looping content each day for 5 hours on 1 off, 4 times a day, every day, showing only a particular news channel..this is as far from a real world test you can be for 99% of people and the most extreme on their test. I am certain those with this usage pattern that read the OP will know that OLED is not for them.
 

MEGATAMA

Active Member
I use my oleds (before B6nnow B7)almost entire day...and night for gaming.Kids watch cartoons over day on TV programs and music videos on YT,we wach movies and series but moust of time me or my son play games on Ps Pro(HDR) and on Switch.
We already have hunderds of hours usage on B7 and on B6 was lots more and ZERO burn in.
This is in line with this 5000 hours normal usage on oled....
 

MEGATAMA

Active Member
The thing is this has been an issue before now, ever since Plasma burn in was apparent. Plenty of people have used Plasma TVs for PC use without issue, me included. In fact with more options now with OLEDs to clear up image retention the risk imposed now is far less than it was with Plasma displays.

And also not forgetting that LCDs aren't immune to burn in either, if you keep stationary images on them for long enough.

The fact is most people who are buying an OLED TV who also use it as a PC will be using it either for HTPC use or gaming, both have stationary images and they may also do some web browsing/general use from time to time. Most people with this use will and do never have a problem, even with the first gen OLED TVs.

The thread points out its not just about what you do, but also how often you do it. Because frankly a lot of info out there is scaring people away from purchasing an OLED just because they read about this information (where they usually neglect to add details of repetitive usage) and they think its going to be a major problem to them because they have read it is to someone else.


But this is a test looping content each day for 5 hours on 1 off, 4 times a day, every day, showing only a particular news channel..this is as far from a real world test you can be for 99% of people and the most extreme on their test. I am certain those with this usage pattern that read the OP will know that OLED is not for them.
Rtings real life test is not real life at all,this kind of usage u have in tv store on demo units....hours of same content in loop.
 

gds1972

Active Member
I guess it depends on whether viewing such content on an intermittent basis has any cumulative effect. In their video report (at 4 weeks), they note that there is a degree of memory effect to the burn-in, suggesting that 'nominal viewing patterns' may not entirely solve the problem.

I have had a B6 for over a year and I personally think the image still looks great and I watch a variety of different channels and game and have experienced no burn in issues with the television.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'nominal viewing patterns' or if the test being carried out can even be considered as nominal. This is because I think the real world test they are conducting is still flawed as they are leaving the television tuned to just one channel when they should be rotating the content being shown on the televisions.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
It's designed to be more real life than their first test, but yes, even with mixed content you have to argue if 4x a day for 5 hours with 1 hour off is real life...the test isn't even mixed content. Maybe NBC but even then I think they have a channel logo in the same spot in programmes don't they?
 

Analysis

Well-known Member
If you've got a XB1 you can set up the auto dim feature, it protects the same way after 2 mins, I've got mine setup this way.
 

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