Dodgexander
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Contrary to how it may read sometimes both online in general and here at AVF, burn in is not a common problem with OLEDs, certainly no more of a common problem than it was in the Plasma days.
This forum and the internet in general is a place where people mostly come when they have a problem, there aren't many cases on the forum (or online for that matter) where there is an incentive for someone to tell us how fantastic their OLED is and how they haven't suffered from burn in. People naturally report when they have a problem, not when they don't!
The internet is a wealth of information that can make you believe any TV or any problem is a big one if you search long and hard enough. It's a little similar to when you open a newspaper to page 3, you know what you are getting.
Not only that, but OLEDs now are the TV to own, they are at their lowest in price they have ever been and they offer upgrades for most people in all areas compared to LCDs at a price where not only enthusiasts can afford them, but many regular Joes like you or I too.
In 2017 they have sold crazy well. Not only sold now by LG, but Panasonic, Sony and Philips too. LG themselves offer the most attractive prices and took a massive leap in the high end market share over Samsung in 2017.
So what do you get on the internet and here on AVF when a TV sells so much?
You are more likely to read an issue, simply because they sold more OLEDs to begin with!!
Believe me, if you moderated on the forums you would see. The OLED related threads (and arguments/disagreements) are two fold compared to any other type of TV. Most of the discussion and traffic here is directed in OLED owners threads!!
The same can be said about every good selling TV though. In 2017 many people reported problems with the Sony XE9005 and its frame repeat issue. Would this be such a hot topic if Sony didn't sell as many TVs? No.
In 2016 the best selling TV by far was the Samsung KS7000 and it was the same again that year, many problems reporting poor build quality, panel issues, motion stutter. If you sell a TV so well, you will see more problems online...it does not mean the TV is a bad buy, often it can seem that way but usually if a TV sells well, it does so for a reason.
It does not mean there is more likely to be a problem just because a TV sells more.
If you look at failure rates or conducted a survey of every OLED owner most people will tell you they haven't even noticed temporary image retention, let alone burn in!
So what do you need to ask yourself when it comes to burn in? What can help you decide whether you risk burn in or not?
Reasons you may suffer from burn in:
You have unusually invariable viewing patterns:
You have unusually invariable daily and weekly viewing patterns:
What happens when you abuse your OLED TV.
What happens when you use your OLED TV for normal tasks.
OLED TV Reliability: Burn-In, & More | LG USA
Useful facts:
Hopefully this helps people make an informed decision and sorts out a lot of the scare mongering and misinformation out there about OLEDs. It should be pretty easy to tell for most people if they think burn in will be a problem or not, just ask yourself the right questions.
If there is anything I have missed or anything you think I should add, please let me know!
EDIT# 16th July 2019.
Its contained in the rtings.com real life test linked above but there is integral info provided by the rtings.com burn in test here:
If you use their method of calculation, you can effectively calculate from your own usage patten how soon it may be that you encounter any burn in on an OLED. In the example they use it would take 7 years of playing the same computer game with the same hud before you start to be at risk. Obviously this is not going to match many peoples usage as most people will not play the same game for 7 years, but it gives you an idea from being able to self-calculate how prone you may be to the risk.
EDIT* 18/06/20 - John Lewis offer accidental damage insurance you can pay extra for which includes OLED burn in. If you feel you are at risk of burn in, I'd suggest buying this along with an OLED directly from them.
EDIT* 03/07/2021 - We are now seeing even less cases of burn in. Since 2017 methods of reducing burn risk has developed substantially to the point where many experts are now saying its a non-issue. We also in 2021 for the first time see LG's new EVO panel shipping on TVs like the LG G1, Panasonic JZ1500, JZ2000, Sony A80J and A90J whic should further reduce the risk
This forum and the internet in general is a place where people mostly come when they have a problem, there aren't many cases on the forum (or online for that matter) where there is an incentive for someone to tell us how fantastic their OLED is and how they haven't suffered from burn in. People naturally report when they have a problem, not when they don't!
The internet is a wealth of information that can make you believe any TV or any problem is a big one if you search long and hard enough. It's a little similar to when you open a newspaper to page 3, you know what you are getting.
Not only that, but OLEDs now are the TV to own, they are at their lowest in price they have ever been and they offer upgrades for most people in all areas compared to LCDs at a price where not only enthusiasts can afford them, but many regular Joes like you or I too.
In 2017 they have sold crazy well. Not only sold now by LG, but Panasonic, Sony and Philips too. LG themselves offer the most attractive prices and took a massive leap in the high end market share over Samsung in 2017.
So what do you get on the internet and here on AVF when a TV sells so much?
You are more likely to read an issue, simply because they sold more OLEDs to begin with!!
Believe me, if you moderated on the forums you would see. The OLED related threads (and arguments/disagreements) are two fold compared to any other type of TV. Most of the discussion and traffic here is directed in OLED owners threads!!
The same can be said about every good selling TV though. In 2017 many people reported problems with the Sony XE9005 and its frame repeat issue. Would this be such a hot topic if Sony didn't sell as many TVs? No.
In 2016 the best selling TV by far was the Samsung KS7000 and it was the same again that year, many problems reporting poor build quality, panel issues, motion stutter. If you sell a TV so well, you will see more problems online...it does not mean the TV is a bad buy, often it can seem that way but usually if a TV sells well, it does so for a reason.
It does not mean there is more likely to be a problem just because a TV sells more.
If you look at failure rates or conducted a survey of every OLED owner most people will tell you they haven't even noticed temporary image retention, let alone burn in!
So what do you need to ask yourself when it comes to burn in? What can help you decide whether you risk burn in or not?
Reasons you may suffer from burn in:
You have unusually invariable viewing patterns:
- Do you like to leave the news channel on all day?
- Do your children often watch cartoons and leave a cartoon channel on with a static logo in the corner for hours?
- Do you often play the same video game that has a static hud in the corner for hours?
- Do you like to use your television for productivity and spend hours looking at the windows taskbar?
You have unusually invariable daily and weekly viewing patterns:
- You are a one channel kind of guy, you hate change and like to have that news channel on for hours at a time every day for hours at a time for weeks.
- Your children are addicted to the same cartoon channel and you've lost control over them, they relentlessly watch the cartoon channel with that static logo each day for hours, they refuse to go to bed.
- You are that guy who likes long gaming sessions, but you don't just have the odd one, you like to game for hours at a time as soon as you get home at night until you drop. You never get fed up with a game and you like to play only one game at a time.
- You intend to use the TV for content creation and as a PC monitor every day, you need to meet those deadlines each week and that requires a lot of time in front of your OLED to get that final project finished. You are a work addict and use your TV this way every day.
- You don't meet both the viewing patterns and the daily and weekly viewing patterns above and just use the TV with variation like most people do. Even if you are a big gamer you have a variation in what you play and you use the TV for more than one task.
- You are sensible and don't leave the same image on the TV for hours.
- You don't turn off the screensaver feature of the TV.
- You don't whack the OLED backlight on full and use VIVID picture mode and have your TV incorrectly calibrated.
- When you pause your TV/Game or leave a static image the TV's screen-saver will appear after 2 minutes. You can also use a source screen size, eg windows/fire tv screensaver etc.
What happens when you abuse your OLED TV.
What happens when you use your OLED TV for normal tasks.
OLED TV Reliability: Burn-In, & More | LG USA
Useful facts:
- The risk of burn in with OLEDs is actually less than it was in the Plasma days. It's no more likely to happen now than then.
- Its not only OLEDs that can suffer from burn in, abuse any type of display (even LCD) and you can get burn in. Just take a look at some of the old LCDs in pubs.
- Youtube is full of people claiming to be experts and misleading people, do not believe everything you watch on Youtube. I don't want to name and shame but there are some really laughable content creators out there who literally will say anything to make a few extra views. Do not believe their rubbish! I am sure if you read this, you know the kind of channels I am talking about.
Hopefully this helps people make an informed decision and sorts out a lot of the scare mongering and misinformation out there about OLEDs. It should be pretty easy to tell for most people if they think burn in will be a problem or not, just ask yourself the right questions.
If there is anything I have missed or anything you think I should add, please let me know!
EDIT# 16th July 2019.
Its contained in the rtings.com real life test linked above but there is integral info provided by the rtings.com burn in test here:
Current Stance (31/05/2019 - 9064 hours)
Original statement from 11/05/2018: After more than 5000 hours, there has been no appreciable change to the brightness or color gamut of these TVs. Long periods of static content have resulted in some permanent burn-in (see the CNN TVs), however the other TVs with more varied content don't yet have noticeable uniformity issues on normal content. As a result, we don't expect most people who watch varied content without static areas to experience burn-in issues with an OLED TV. Those who display the same static content over long periods of time should consider the risk of burn-in though (such as those who watch lots of news, use the TV as a PC monitor, or play the same game with a bright static HUD). Those who are concerned about the risk of burn-in should go with an LCD TV for the peace of mind.
Note that we expect burn-in to depend on a few factors:
To see how the results at this 5000 hour point compares to your usage, divide 5000 by the number of hours you watch each type of content per day to find the number of days. For example, someone who plays call of duty or another video game without bright static areas for 2 hours per day may expect similar results after about 2500 days of usage. This corresponds to about 7 years.
- The total duration of static content. LG has told us that they expect it to be cumulative, so static content which is present for 30 minutes twice a day is equivalent to one hour of static content once per day.
- The brightness of the static content. Our maximum brightness CNN TV has more severe burn-in than our 200 nits brightness CNN TV.
- The colors of the static areas. We found that in our 20/7 Burn-in Test the red sub-pixel is the fastest to degrade, followed by blue and then green.
We will continue to run this test and collect data, and our stance may change as we obtain more information.
Update 05/31/2019: The TVs have now been running for over 9000 hours (around 5 years at 5 hours every day). Uniformity issues have developed on the TVs displaying Football and FIFA 18, and are starting to develop on the TV displaying Live NBC. Our stance remains the same, we don't expect most people who watch varied content without static areas to experience burn-in issues with an OLED TV.
If you use their method of calculation, you can effectively calculate from your own usage patten how soon it may be that you encounter any burn in on an OLED. In the example they use it would take 7 years of playing the same computer game with the same hud before you start to be at risk. Obviously this is not going to match many peoples usage as most people will not play the same game for 7 years, but it gives you an idea from being able to self-calculate how prone you may be to the risk.
EDIT* 18/06/20 - John Lewis offer accidental damage insurance you can pay extra for which includes OLED burn in. If you feel you are at risk of burn in, I'd suggest buying this along with an OLED directly from them.
John Lewis Accidental Damage Insurance - Burn In Covered
John Lewis appear to have upped there game in the sale of OLED’s offering additional Accidental Damage Insurance as an add on purchase. Hopefully other retailers follow. £140 for additional insurance based on the 65C9 Does this mark the end of the worry for Burn In on OLED? Product Info;
www.avforums.com
EDIT* 03/07/2021 - We are now seeing even less cases of burn in. Since 2017 methods of reducing burn risk has developed substantially to the point where many experts are now saying its a non-issue. We also in 2021 for the first time see LG's new EVO panel shipping on TVs like the LG G1, Panasonic JZ1500, JZ2000, Sony A80J and A90J whic should further reduce the risk
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