OLED Burn In (Circular Arguments)

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JustTheFacts

Active Member
Arguments For How Prevalent is OLED Burn In

Unopinionated, the professional TV reviewers, rtings.com, Consumer Reports, and any other member with views similar to his are incompetent with respect to OLED Burn In.

Professional TV reviewers are incompetent and Consumer Reports Scientific Statistical Data is invalid when it comes to OLED Burn In.

Some of what rtings.com says about burn in is good, but their overall stance on burn in is incorrect. "Although we don't expect most people who watch varied content to have any issues, OLED TVs, such as the LG OLED C9 do have the possibility of experiencing burn in. "

Because I have experienced OLED Burn In it can't be a rare occurrence.

Because I have experienced OLED Burn In it is pandemic and everybody will get OLED Burn In sooner or later.

There are to many cases on you tube and social media for OLED Burn In to not be a pandemic problem.

I know a lot about pixels and TV technology and I say OLED Burn In is a problem.

If OLED Burn In wasn't a problem then LG would provide a 10 year warranty like Samsung does for their LCDs.

The professional TV Reviewers opinions can't be trusted. They are in on a big conspiracy with LG to minimize the OLED Burn In issue, since they have to suck up to LG in order to get special privileges at CES.

Gadgetobsessed AVForums poll shows burn in is at 35 percent for certain years.

Curry's and all of the other stores that sell TVs are in on a big conspiracy. They know that a huge number of their TVs are returned for OLED Burn In and they don't report it to the general public.

LG knows that their OLED panels are prone to burn in and they are conning all the other TV manufacturers to use their panels and manufacturer OLED TVs.

Sure would help if LG was more upfront about OLED Burn In.

The most reliable source of information on OLED Burn In is obtained from people on social media that have actually experienced OLED Burn In.
 
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JustTheFacts

Active Member
Warranty Arguments

Dodgexander says,
It is what it is whether you like or not, it has been this way since the Plasma era and LGs take on it now won't be any different to how it was with their Plasma TVs in the past...suck it up or let it go. Don't constantly make a fight in your head guys.

Live with the terms or move on and by an LCD, if you want to go on a crusade in the name of law, or take LG to court, by all means do so, but its discussion for somewhere else and not a thread to discuss warranty terms.

If LG won't provide an unlimited warranty for OLED Burn In then they know it is a problem otherwise they would provide an unlimited warranty.

A 5 year warranty for all TVs regardless of the problem (not just burn in) seems fair to me. We need to start pressing for a 5 year warranty for every TV manufactured whether it is an LED or an OLED. If the LED and OLED manufactures won’t give a 5 year warranty for their TVs we need to sue them. If a TV doesn’t last for 5 trouble free years then it is not fit for purpose.
The good thing about a warranty like this is that it would get rid of the poor quality TV manufacturers. We could bankrupt Vizio, Hisense, RCA, Westinghouse, and Element as they would have to repair or replace over 20 percent of their TVs. Even Sony, Samsung, and LG would have a hard time as their failure rate is around 10 percent in the first 5 years. It is time TV Manufacturers start paying attention.

aoaaron said:
If the panels burn in despite normal usage, it can be easily argued they are not fit for purpose if used as a TV display. (Your consumer rights: the law | RiDC)

This can be further validated and backed up by the rubbish LG spout to try and pacify consumers pre-purchase. (OLED TV Reliability: Burn-In & Lifespan – Get The Facts | LG USA)

Therefore they will be legally bound to sort it out (and if it got to court, it'd likely be a refund).

You have users like Dodgexander and Unopinionated who like to think just because poor practice was in place for burn in during the plasma days, it should be the case now, but I beg to differ. If thats the case, why do we bother advancing anything in life (medicine, technology, human rights, laws, equality) when we could just say "suck it up and let it go". If people want to live their life life that and make no progression, fine, but don't tell other users to do the same as if its the right thing to do.

I'm very very confident any competent lawyer would easily win your money back from the retailer (who would be liable for the issue as thats who your contract is with).
 
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JustTheFacts

Active Member
OLED Burn In Tests

Vincent Teoh's test is pathetic.

rtings.com tests prove OLED Burn In is a serious issue.

Vincent Teohs tests show OLED Burn In is is overblown.

Rtings.com real life OLED Burn In test won't be worth much value for current Oled TV buyers. The six outdated LG C7 TVs they are using for their test don't have the logo luminance adjuster that exists on the C8 and C9 TVs.

Logo Luminance Adjustment - detects static logos on the screen and reduces brightness to prevent permanent image retention.

Vincent Teoh used an E8 TV for his test. This is a more accurate test for 2018 and newer models.
https://www.*/n/Extensive-Testing-Shows-OLED-Burn-In-Risk-Is-Overblown
 
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JustTheFacts

Active Member
Unopinionated's Views

If you fear burn in do not buy an OLED TV. Life is to short to be anxious and have to babysit your TV.

Finally I would point out to anyone that if cost is a concern go with a LED; IPS if you need wide angle or VA if you don't need a wide viewing angle. Most people will be fully satisfied with a mid range LED TV. Especially if you don't study the differences between LED TVs and OLED TVs.

Next I would say to stay away from certain brands (Hisense, Vizio, Westinghouse, RCA, etc.) as well because of reliability issues.

From Rtings.com*
Although we don't expect most people who watch varied content to have any issues, OLED TVs, such as the LG OLED C9 do have the possibility of experiencing burn in.

Vincent Teoh
OLED Burn In Risk is Overblown

Consumer Reports
Their statistical data shows that OLED Burn In is such a rare occurence that they don't even mention it as anything to be concerned with except for some 2015 OLED TVs.
Data on 97,554 TVs owned by Consumer Reports members who purchased a new set between 2010 and 2018 has been collected. Many of these TVs are OLEDs. If Burn In was a common problem I am sure Consumer Reports would mention it.

Geoffrey Morrison and David Katzmaier of CNET
If you vary your TV viewing habits like most people, however, it won't be an issue. Even so, caveat emptor. Or as Caesar once said, "Conscientiam autem ardeat sed non anxius" (be aware of burn-in, but not concerned).

John Archer of Forbes
Occurrences of permanent screen burn in the real consumer world are now and will continue to be rare.

Atomicus of Chichester
One thing that seems abundantly apparent is that while by no means should it be suggested that burn-in doesn't exist, the problem is nowhere near as widespread or as much a certainty as some people fear and/or lead others to believe.

Reliability, viewing angle, and cost are the main differences between most TVs. Especially if you don’t game or watch your TV in a dark room. If you don’t study the differences between TVs you would have a hard time noticing the differences between the 55UK6500, low cost TV, and the high end TVs.

Rtings.com in their Best TV reviews says, “Be careful not to get to caught up in the details. While no TV is perfect, most TVs are great enough to please almost everyone, and the differences are often not noticeable unless you really look for them.”

So why do we always want that new TV? Because marketers make us think we need more.
“We must shift America/Europe from a needs to a desires culture…. People must be trained to desire, to want new things, even before the old had been entirely consumed. We must share a new mentality. Man’s desires must overshadow his needs.”
Jeremy Lent (A Wall Street Banker) from A Patterning Instinct
 
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JustTheFacts

Active Member
Useful facts:

  • The risk of burn in with OLEDs is actually less than it was in the Plasma days. It's no more likely to happen now than then.
  • Its not only OLEDs that can suffer from burn in, abuse any type of display (even LCD) and you can get burn in. Just take a look at some of the old LCDs in pubs.
  • Youtube is full of people claiming to be experts and misleading people, do not believe everything you watch on Youtube. I don't want to name and shame but there are some really laughable content creators out there who literally will say anything to make a few extra views. Do not believe their rubbish! I am sure if you read this, you know the kind of channels I am talking about.
 
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JustTheFacts

Active Member
So, in short: Reasonable, responsible usage of an OLED TV, combined with powerful image preservation abilities should result in a seamless home entertainment experience.
 
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JustTheFacts

Active Member
Staffy 2 said:

OLED TVs that have experienced burn in is just a pin drop in the ocean compared to the millions of OLED TVs that haven't experienced burn in.
 
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butchbr73

Standard Member
This is a good concise summary of the Oled burn in thread. Saved about 3 hrs and scrolling thru 160 pages
 

GadgetObsessed

Well-known Member
The professional TV Reviewers opinions can't be trusted. They are in on a big conspiracy with LG to minimize the OLED Burn In issue.
I have not seen anyone saying anything about a conspiracy.

However, I would agree that an expert TV reviewer may not know anything about the probability of burn in on an OLED. Being an expert TV reviewer does not mean that you have any knowledge about the probability of burn in - why would it they are two completely separate skill sets?

Additionally I would expect a TV reviewer to be one of the least likely people to get burn in themselves. Firstly they generally watch TV in the dark and have calibrated settings. Most people watch TV with the lights on and have the brightness set pretty high. Many people watch hours of news channels with logos while I expect TV reviewers watch a higher proportion of films than average on their sets.
 

LGSAM

Member
Also Vincent Teoh using his Oled for a few months and not seeing any burn means nothing as I am sure he knows most who have problems experience them after 18 to 24 months of use ,
 

JustTheFacts

Active Member
I have not seen anyone saying anything about a conspiracy.

However, I would agree that an expert TV reviewer may not know anything about the probability of burn in on an OLED. Being an expert TV reviewer does not mean that you have any knowledge about the probability of burn in - why would it they are two completely separate skill sets?

Additionally I would expect a TV reviewer to be one of the least likely people to get burn in themselves. Firstly they generally watch TV in the dark and have calibrated settings. Most people watch TV with the lights on and have the brightness set pretty high. Many people watch hours of news channels with logos while I expect TV reviewers watch a higher proportion of films than average on their sets.
Thanks for the input. I added "Professional TV reviewers and Consumer Reports Scientific Statistical Data is incompetent when it comes to OLED Burn In." to my list. I know you don't think that the professional reviewers are in on a big conspiracy, but other members thought they needed to suck up to LG to get special recognition at CES.
 

JustTheFacts

Active Member
Also Vincent Teoh using his Oled for a few months and not seeing any burn means nothing as I am sure he knows most who have problems experience them after 18 to 24 months of use ,
Thanks I will add that to my list. I think aoaaron said Vincent Teoh's test is pathetic. I will include that. I put it at the top of the list.
 

JustTheFacts

Active Member
Update Added
Some of what rtings.com says about burn in is good, but their overall stance on burn in is incompetent. "Although we don't expect most people who watch varied content to have any issues, OLED TVs, such as the LG OLED C9 do have the possibility of experiencing burn in. "
 

LGSAM

Member
Sorry, I am trying to see the point of this thread , we already have one discussing Oled burn in . Or am I missing something ?
 

Gary5779

Member
In other words....there is no point to this thread at all.:laugh:
 

JustTheFacts

Active Member
Please provide suggestions for how I should update these circular arguments. Try to keep it concise. No one wants to read a novel.
 
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JustTheFacts

Active Member
This is just good information it is not one of the circular arguments

Sugaris 99 said:

Ah well Achillus, your mistake? I (until November) worked as an audio field manager for one of the manufacturers, specifically soundbars and Tv. Between JL, Curry’s, RS and other indies, I covered 53 stores across the south east and London, and at roughly 12 oleds of all brands per store, regularly saw in excess of 600 oleds every 3-4 weeks, so yes, I’ve seen I helluva lot of oleds. ‘Oh but sagaris, that’s not the whole country, there will be others’. The LG field manager that I occasionally ran into in stores told me that LG had commissioned a nationwide study of all of their on display oleds (off the back of the Rtings test). Of the 2400 LG’s on display (roughly), he suggested that their figures showed there were 4 with BI, two of which were in the same store (one of his). He had identified that because he never had a rep in there, the TV would always be left on the ‘no signal’ screen. Kinda expecting it to happen there.

My factual evidence (you’re gonna love this part). Curry’s PCW have sold roughly 100,000 oled tv’s in the 3 year period since Sept 2015, to 18. Of those 100,000, (that curry’s have had reported by customers) 1,017 to date have been recognised as having BI. John Lewis, sane period, 35,000. Recognised 622 cases, 14 cases of panel failure. Can’t speak for RS and others, data not available. This data was made available to all oled manufacturers, and its not from LG.

The only data you have to go on is an unofficial poll on a forum.

Next time you want to come at me with facts and figures Achillus, I’ll be waiting mate. But I can’t see you will.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Circular argument incoming.

Depending on retailers (who refuse and are known to not recognise or replace panels for burn in) is very very dodgey territory.

Also I'm very intrigued by LG's methodology of burn in for display models as I've personally seen more than four panels in stores with evidence of burn in (but its to be expected as they're practically abused in stores).

Citing clearly either biased sources (LG) or dodgey retailers who have a pretty bad trackrecord of recognising and acting upon burn in (Currys taken to court by a member of this forum) isn't the best stronghold or source for getting facts.

Maybe Currys & LG will decide to cover burn in with some form of warranty which lasts more than 12 months if the numbers are as low as they say.
 

JustTheFacts

Active Member
I
Circular argument incoming.

Depending on retailers (who refuse and are known to not recognise or replace panels for burn in) is very very dodgey territory.

Also I'm very intrigued by LG's methodology of burn in for display models as I've personally seen more than four panels in stores with evidence of burn in (but its to be expected as they're practically abused in stores).

Citing clearly either biased sources (LG) or dodgey retailers who have a pretty bad trackrecord of recognising and acting upon burn in (Currys taken to court by a member of this forum) isn't the best stronghold or source for getting facts.

Maybe Currys & LG will decide to cover burn in with some form of warranty which lasts more than 12 months if the numbers are as low as they say.
I like what Dodgexander says about the warranty circle,

It is what it is whether you like or not, it has been this way since the Plasma era and LGs take on it now won't be any different to how it was with their Plasma TVs in the past...suck it up or let it go. Don't constantly make a fight in your head guys.

Live with the terms or move on and by an LCD, if you want to go on a crusade in the name of law, or take LG to court, by all means do so.

Unopinionated's addition: I haven't a clue what your going to present to the judge, "they only gave me a one year warranty and its not fair".
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I

I like what Dodgexander says about the warranty circle,

It is what it is whether you like or not, it has been this way since the Plasma era and LGs take on it now won't be any different to how it was with their Plasma TVs in the past...suck it up or let it go. Don't constantly make a fight in your head guys.

Live with the terms or move on and by an LCD, if you want to go on a crusade in the name of law, or take LG to court, by all means do so.

Unopinionated's addition: I haven't a clue what your going to present to the judge, "they only gave me a one year warranty and its not fair".


Thats a very backwards level of thinking, which will never lead to an improvement in consumer rights in regards to televsions or to be quite honest.. anything.

There are plenty of poor business practices in the past in multiple industries. "Sucking it up and letting it go" just because there is a previously set poor, unfair or backwards precedent, is a ridiculous notion if you feel you're in the right. If someone is happy to "suck it up and let it go", thats fine but I wouldn't be giving that advice away as its honestly crap advice.

I can imagine whoever does follow the life ethos of "sucking it up and letting it go" will not be very successful in life at all.

Somebody literally won their case via small claims court and its a documented case on the forum.

I suggest you don't become a lawyer because with that train of thought, limited level of fact finding, and level of intellect; you will get no where and likely troll yourself to losing.
 

JustTheFacts

Active Member
Thats very backwards thinking which will never lead to an improvement in consumer rights in regards to televsions.

There are plenty of poor business practices in the past in multiple industries. "Sucking it up and letting it go" is a ridiculous notion if you feel you're in the right.

Somebody literally won their case via small claims court and its a documented case on the forum. I suggest you don't become a lawyer because with that train of thought, limited level of fact finding, and level of intellect; you will get no where and likely troll yourself to losing.
How much time have you spent on the pursuit? When are you going to see the results? Taking online may cause a difference, but that is because it benefits their business to pacify the complainers, not because they are legally bound.
 
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