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Old dvd recordings failing...

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by wellsi, May 19, 2003.

  1. wellsi

    wellsi
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    So, after a fw months of playing with my utterly fabulous HS2 (how can a dvd-recorder work properly without a built in hard drive to edit on?), I have one huge disappointment...

    Many of my old dvd-r recordings made on my Panasonic E20 will not actually play properly on the HS2... Admittedly, I have been a staunch advocator of using the very cheapest blank discs available; perhaps now I will rue that choice. Around 20% of my old recordings start playing then pixellate out into rubbish about 20 mins - 1 hour into them.

    Also, admittedly, I went against the manual's advice and have been putting home printed discs stickers onto them.

    Having another go at some archiving now; not really wanting to make the same mistake.
    I saw the note the other day re using Datasafe discs with Ritek dye (most people liked those).
    Will also avoid using stickers (as those without seem to still work; perhaps a balance thing?)

    Any other thoughts?

    Cheers
     
  2. kit1cat

    kit1cat
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    I have a simiar problem with some of my eproformance discs, I am not sure if it's a problem with the discs or the HS2.

    The discs play fine in my Tosh DVD player and the DVD player in the computer. Another thread suggested the problem occurs when you use FR recording, with any discs, which could be the case for me. Was FR mode avaiable on the E20?

    Barry
     
  3. wellsi

    wellsi
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    It was, via timer recordings; however this wasn't the case with my discs, as I could never be bothered to use it on the E20.

    I agree, I think the HS2 is a little fussier; some don't play on it but do play on my other Panasonic and Sony players.

    Will order some Datasafe Ritek silver dvd's this afternoon and see how I get on with them...
     
  4. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    Guys your having this problem due to the media your using. The tollerances of the dirt cheap disks are somewhat poorer than higher quality disks. It's nothing to do with the recordings 'rotting', 'eroding' or any other mystic magic like that!

    I initially record everything on Panasonic DVD-Rs which (although only around £2.50 each) are good quality. I then tend to make a 'working copy' (one I use for playback so the original can be locked in my cellar) on cheap media such as Mirror (£1 each) disks. The symptoms you describe occasionally appear late in the recordings (maybe one in 30 is affected as such). Depending on what player you use will depend how noticeable it all is. My Toshiba 900 hardly blinks at them whereas my HS2 makes it very visible.

    You need to find a happy medium between cheap and reliable disks. Just use cheap disks for lending non-critical stuff to your mates! I would also suggest never, ever, writing or sticking labels on your DVDs. If you must mark them do so on the clear plastic centre. Personally I don't even do this and just make a nice case to put my recordings in.
     
  5. kit1cat

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    Thanks for info, I started using eproformance discs because they were recommened by the company I bought my HS2 from, the first batch cost nearly £25 for 10 discs, not what I would call cheap, my last batch 69p each from a different supplier.

    The guy in the thread that suggested the problem only occured in FR mode, tried various discs, cheap and good quality, with the same results. No problems in other modes??

    I checked my discs after I recorded them and they where fine, the problems started at a later date.

    I will try some better quality media when I finshed the 30 odd discs I have left.

    Barry
     
  6. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    No this certainly isn't the problem. Every single DVD-R I have archived is in FR mode (for obvious reasons) and it only happens with dirt cheap disks. Buy decent disks from well known companies be it Maxwell, TDK, Panasonic, Pioneer etc and you recordings will be as safe as houses on DVD-R. Buy cheap disks for making working copies, lending to friends and backups (which you must verify to ensure aren't corrupted).
     
  7. Ekko Star

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    Definately down to the media in question.

    Generally the dye on the disc further out towards the outer edge is where the problem lies. When you use FR mode whether it's for 20mins or 3hrs or so, the full disc will be utilised to record on. Hence it will run into trouble as it approaches the outside edge. Whereas 20 mins on 2hr SP mode may appear fine, simply because you have utilised less of the disc.

    It also sounds like you have got a picky HS2 so it's a case of trial and error getting the right media for you.

    I would suggest using the very best media for critical back ups. Some of the more budget DVD-R's will most certainly deteriorate over time simply due to the quality of the dye used.
     
  8. kit1cat

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    Thanks for the info guys.

    Barry
     
  9. vonhosen

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    It's a bit dated now ( DVD Media Test )

    But it illustrates the point about compatability & that all brands are not equal. In my experience the most compatible brands are also the ones that last well.

    If you must label use Thermal printer OR inkjet , obviously on the correct type of surfaced media (that is if your not commercially producing then maybe silkscreen ?

    :smoke: )

    I use Maxell, TDK & Apple
     
  10. wellsi

    wellsi
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    Thanks for the advice guys; will splash oput a bit more on discs from now on I think!

    Cheers,
     
  11. Rasczak

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    One thing to note - if you have a PC DVD burner you should try copying the contents of your disk to your HDD. It could well be that although the disk has problems playing on the HS2 you may well be able to recover the data and burn to a better quality DVD-R. I was able to do this with one of my cheap disk recordings - plays fine now.
     
  12. harrisuk

    harrisuk
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    How are you storing them. Stupid question but they are away from light , heat etc.

    What ever any one on here says if you do some research on the web on the vaious media forums you will find that Ritek Dye based discs are extremely well regarded in terms of durability, and compatability and are a good option I believe. They are not the cheapest or the most expensive but offer a good compromise on quality and cost.

    Properly stored they should last as long as needed really.
    And incidentally I have had my recorder for about a month now. I mainly use Ram to be honest for stuff I wont watch again.

    Where I use -r it is for archiving and I normally watch those programs anyway so can pause out adverts etc. I honestly cant think of one example of where I would have used the full functionaly of a HS2 and certainly could not have justified paying almost double the £340 I paid for my multiregion E50 to be honest.

    Fit for purpose etc. I just needed a VCR replacement to be honest and the E50 is actually much better than I was expecting for such a relatively cheap DVD recorder.
     
  13. wellsi

    wellsi
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    Thanks for that; have ordered Ritek dye type dvd-rs now.

    Main advantage with using the HDD of the HS2 is you record everything straight onto the HDD; trim off the adverts at your leisure, then leave it to transfer onto dvd-r by itself.

    Admittedly, RAM is coming down in price to the point where you can indeed record and trim the adverts directly on the RAM itself. Will be better when more players come out with RAM reading ability; they're dragging their feet a bit.

    Also use the DV in all the time for the video camera, and am also dumping all my digital camer still pictures straight onto the HS2 viw the card reader slot. Still pictures use up so little memory that you can literally store thousands without any real dent in the available HDD space. The album funtionality is very simple and nice.

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  14. JNLister

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    That's actually the exact same logic I'm using to decide brands to use - if it's good enough to play in my supremely picky Samsung 511, it's good enough to last.

    That said, I'd love to hear this logic justified more scientifically just to reassure me!
     
  15. vonhosen

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    Well compatability was always my main aim when writing to media. For that reason I always buy quality branded media as research & reports (such as the old link I provided above) support the view that quality media provide higher compatability rates.

    I do quite a bit of DVD authoring & have always found that the discs I do have a good compatability rate & none to my knowledge have degraded to where faults have started to occur on playback.

    I have however had plenty of people complain to me that they have used budget discs & these have resulted in playback problems such as freezing after degradation.
     
  16. malcom

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    I wonder how many of the "freezing" problems really are down to degredation of the disc or I think were more likely there all the time as soon as the cheap media was recorded too. Some people it appears do not check their recording all the way through by playing them at normal speed. Some I have read check them by playing fast forward which is pointless as it simply jumps past any "Freeze frame" location.

    I always somehow find the time to check each recording and "yes" I have had some cheap media that "freeze frames" from scratch. They go in the bin and a new recording is made. I agree it's never wise to use cheap media if you only have one opportunity to record an item.

    When you hear reports of media degredation there are a lot of unknowns about the circumstances of the owners of those discs. For example..Are grubby fingerprint being left on them before being stored! Do other family members handle them especially kids! Have they been loaned out to others! Without proper knowledge of those reporting failed discs it is impossible to determine if it is natural degradation due to cheap manufacturing or any or all of the above mentioned. Phew..I feel better now.:D
     
  17. wellsi

    wellsi
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    I whole heartedly agree Malcolm;
    My failures became apparent when I changed machine to the HS2 from the old E20 (which by all accounts was a more robust and less fussy machine).
    With the exception of a bad scratch, I have NEVER had a recording play initially and then 'degrade' and fail later.

    It is, I believe, more a problem of poor compatibility of cheap media, and perhaps poor recording in the first place that were not checked after recording...

    Still, on the plus side, it's nice that it's not the machine that's failed, just the cheap media.
    Is there ANYthing wrong with the Pannys?
     

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