Ok thats it im jealous

plenty of people enjoy target shooting - which i have done and its requires great skill - Olympic shooters also train with rifles but must train in Europe with pistols because of our stupid laws:mad:

I don't think generally people have a problem with target shooting or clay pigeon shooting, shooting animals for sport gets on some people's wicks, but I think what most folks object to is any law like the states which makes it possible for any half wit to go and buy something that will allow you to kill multiple human beings with ease.

In my lifetime I have come across numerous folk, who should not under any circumstances be allowed access to gun.
 
i game shoot and stalk deer (and a bit of clay pigeon as well) - what harm am i doing?

well if the deer could type i'm sure they would have an opinion.

It also depends if you go a bit mad like the bloke in london last week - taking pot shots from the windows of his £3 million apartment in chelsea - i believe his gun was legal.


Gary
 
I don't think generally people have a problem with target shooting or clay pigeon shooting, shooting animals for sport gets on some people's wicks, but I think what most folks object to is any law like the states which makes it possible for any half wit to go and buy something that will allow you to kill multiple human beings with ease.

In my lifetime I have come across numerous folk, who should not under any circumstances be allowed access to gun.

but the UK has some of the most stringent gun laws in the world

there was a knee jerk reaction by the govt after Hungerford/Dunblane - it only harmed legal shooters

you cannot legislate against the likes of Ryan/Hamilton because if you want an illegal gun they are easy to buy!

but any halfwit can drive a car? - a licence and insurance being optional extra's?
 
well if the deer could type i'm sure they would have an opinion.

It also depends if you go a bit mad like the bloke in london last week - taking pot shots from the windows of his £3 million apartment in chelsea - i believe his gun was legal.


Gary

actually my old deer might agree with you!!

but an illegal gun is easy to obtain? - there are step by step instructions on the net to build a 9mm machine pistol with very basic machine tools - and the instructions are even linked through Wiki as its a US site

that guy what he deserved - he died!
 
Give me the good old "nanny state" every time.

You are as likely to be killed by a gun in the US as be killed in a road accident in the UK.

So, of those spectators who were at the last US NFL superbowl, at least 3 will be killed by guns by the time of the next superbowl.

I heard that, if you buy a gun in the US you are over 20 times more likely to get shot than if you don't.

nanny state scare mongering

some areas are pretty rough but there are alot of areas in the US that have far lower crime rates than the UK, especially as they have vastly more police per person than we do and alot of states are operating zero tolerance
 
actually my old deer might agree with you!!

but an illegal gun is easy to obtain? - there are step by step instruction on the net to build a 9mm machine pistol with very basic machine tools - and the instruction are even linked through Wiki as its a US site

that guy what he deserved - he died!

you can drive into Europe and buy guns, the French sport shops have loads of them, been several TV "exposes" where they drive back on the chunnel with them, one with it on the passenger seat :)
 
but the UK has some of the most stringent gun laws in the world

Good and I hope they stay that way.

If that's the price we pay then so be it. It doesn't seem to be a major problem to be able to go clay pigeon shooting or at a range irrelevent of our laws, anything else like shooting deer etc I don't have much sympathy .

[/quote]


you cannot legislate against the likes of Ryan/Hamilton because if you want an illegal gun they are easy to buy!

I don't buy that arguement sorry, right now I would not know where to go and illegally buy a gun without quite a degree of catching up with long lost aquaintances I can well do without knowing again.

If some pleb gets angry because his GF screws somebody else, and he's off his head, he can in the states go and easily buy a gun , with zero problems, load it and go and blow somebodies head off without having to spend any time trying to workout out how to get the gun, without having to find illegal measures to do so etc etc. Any time you make it easier to put a deadly weapon in the hands of somebody on an impulse it's a problem.

but any halfwit can drive a car? - a licence and insurance being optional extra's?

It's relatively awkward to drive a car into a school and systematically mow down a dozen kids. It's relatively hard to drive a car into a house at 5:00 am when you've fallen out with the noisy neighbour, up the stairs and kill him with it. I could go on forever, the analagy is moot.
 
actually, handguns are very difficult to shoot accurately - and i'm professionally trained in their use (from before the ban)

but the same guy who wants to kill his GF would be better with a knife/axe

also unless the law has changed much in the US people cannot (in most states) walk in off the street and buy a gun - more states require a background check?

ref deer - since they no longer have any natural predators they have to be culled to maintain a 'balance' - see Red Deer Commission - even the RSPCA/RSPB agree with this

i've visited Scottish estates who do not cull - in the spring you find dead deer who after autopsy are found to have died from starvation
 
nanny state scare mongering

some areas are pretty rough but there are alot of areas in the US that have far lower crime rates than the UK, especially as they have vastly more police per person than we do and alot of states are operating zero tolerance

Scaremongering? In what way? Scared by facts are you?

Higher policing would certainly lower crime rates. It would in the UK too. Not really relevant to a discussion on the illusory saftey procided by owning guns or the real safety provided by low gun ownership in a nanny state.

The point of my last statistic is that, no matter how low the crime rate, how high the policing level, if you own a gun you or your family or their friends are much more likely to be involved in a shooting, probably acidental. In fact its the low likeliehood of you being shot by a stranger that makes it so much more dangerous to own a gun.
 
you can drive into Europe and buy guns, the French sport shops have loads of them, been several TV "exposes" where they drive back on the chunnel with them, one with it on the passenger seat :)

Agreed, and I don't doubt you can drive to another country, take the risk of being caught, or get involved with shady folk and cash deals etc etc, there is NO doubt at all, if you really wanted to get a gun and did your research you could get an illegal weapon.

That's not in question.

However, that is a far cry from simply walking into your supermarket, picking up a gun and some bullets and dealing with whatever ticked you off 10 minutes ago which is where I think the majority of the maddos come out of the woodwork, impulse, anger, drug or booze fuelled instant reactionary gun crime.

Nothing anybody says will ever make me agree that putting more guns on this planet is a safer better way of life, this and the "God" myth are two things I'm convinced I'll take to my grave before I change my mind.
 
Scaremongering? In what way? Scared by facts are you?

Higher policing would certainly lower crime rates. It would in the UK too. Not really relevant to a discussion on the illusory saftey procided by owning guns or the real safety provided by low gun ownership in a nanny state.

The point of my last statistic is that, no matter how low the crime rate, how high the policing level, if you own a gun you or your family or their friends are much more likely to be involved in a shooting, probably acidental. In fact its the low likeliehood of you being shot by a stranger that makes it so much more dangerous to own a gun.

statistics can tell you the moon is made of cheese!

i have many friends in the US who own handguns to protect their homes etc - none have ever shot a burglar/their wife/lover/cat/dog etc etc

accidental shooting is a complete oxymoron!! - so we should ban power tools because some muppet drills through an electric cable?
 
statistics can tell you the moon is made of cheese!

i have many friends in the US who own handguns to protect their homes etc - none have ever shot a burglar/their wife/lover/cat/dog etc etc

accidental shooting is a complete oxymoron!! - so we should ban power tools because some muppet drills through an electric cable?

The " I have a mate who XXXX , therefore XXXXX does not happen " argument doesn't really hold water, I'm glad your "many friends in the US" have not killed anybody but it's not really empirical data is it.

The stats are very clear about rising gun crime and the number of guns in circulation.
 
actually, handguns are very difficult to shoot accurately - and i'm professionally trained in their use (from before the ban)

but the same guy who wants to kill his GF would be better with a knife/axe

also unless the law has changed much in the US people cannot (in most states) walk in off the street and buy a gun - more states require a background check?

ref deer - since they no longer have any natural predators they have to be culled to maintain a 'balance' - see Red Deer Commission - even the RSPCA/RSPB agree with this

i've visited Scottish estates who do not cull - in the spring you find dead deer who after autopsy are found to have died from starvation

I've shot a handgun twice in my life, and neither time did I find it that hard after a couple of shots to hit a tree at quite a range on the first occasion and a target on the 2nd occasion, and that's from somebody with no training at all.

Weak people can kill people with a gun, it takes far more skill, planning, nerve etc to murder somebody with a knife, you don't even have to be close or have contact.

If culling is required for neccesity , I have no issue with it and I don't think other folks do generally.

Re gun purchase, the kid how mowed down those folks recently in the states, just walked straight into a shop, bought a gun and some bullets in the morning then laid waste to the school that afternoon. A damm school kid.

I've always listened to pro gun folks, (my best friend and business partner carries a gun on him every time he leaves the house, he has a concealed weapon licence) and I try to find some ground to believe that somehow proliferation of a deadly weapon can be a good thing but I've never yet seen anything tangible that convinces me.
 
Bowling for Columbine talks about the number of guns in the US Vs the number of guns in Canada? Canada has the same amount of guns but WAY less gun related deaths. So can guns and gun law be entirely blamed?

I found this interesting:

http://mindprod.com/politics/bowling.html

The " I have a mate who XXXX , therefore XXXXX does not happen " argument doesn't really hold water, I'm glad your "many friends in the US" have not killed anybody but it's not really empirical data is it.

The stats are very clear about rising gun crime and the number of guns in circulation.
 
Re gun purchase, the kid how mowed down those folks recently in the states, just walked straight into a shop, bought a gun and some bullets in the morning then laid waste to the school that afternoon. A damm school kid.

I though that most states had a two day waiting period for handguns now?
 
I though that most states had a two day waiting period for handguns now?

Could be now, if so good idea. It's exactly that kind of sensible law that could go along way towards nullifying the reactionary deaths caused by guns.

I remember Bowling for Columbine, good movie, no idea why Canucks don't go around wasting each other to the same degree as the septic tanks, In general they seem a brighter lot with less anger.

Note to self: Don't generalise.

I don't actually know the Canadian stats, it's a different beast to the US, perhaps many more of the guns are owned by those involved in hunting etc, perhaps the stats don't show a differential between legal and not , blah blah, so many factors. I think there's a sub culture of gang fare in the states as well which is not as prevalent in Candada.

Who knows, I'm now officially speaking out my as.s with guesses :)
 
statistics can tell you the moon is made of cheese!

i have many friends in the US who own handguns to protect their homes etc - none have ever shot a burglar/their wife/lover/cat/dog etc etc

accidental shooting is a complete oxymoron!! - so we should ban power tools because some muppet drills through an electric cable?

You are missing the point of the nanny state.

Power tools have a real benefit whenever they are used.

The fact that your friends have never had to shoot a burglar shows that the benefit of all those guns has been illusory until now.

You also appear not to understand statistics - it's not surprising that none of your friends have ever been involved in an incident, that they are among the 59,997 at the superbowl who will be able to watch it next year.

Another benefit of the nanny state is that power tools are double insulated so, even if some muppet drills through an electric cable they probably won't get hurt.

Another benefit of the nanny state is that, even if some muppet with an old drill drills through an electric cable, there may wsell be an RCD to trip the power before any damage is done.
 
Bowling for Columbine talks about the number of guns in the US Vs the number of guns in Canada? Canada has the same amount of guns but WAY less gun related deaths. So can guns and gun law be entirely blamed?

I found this interesting:

http://mindprod.com/politics/bowling.html

Way less, yes. About a tenth of the Gun homicide rate of the states. About 2-3 times the UK gun homicide rate and maybe 4 times as many households with guns.
 
You are missing the point of the nanny state.

Power tools have a real benefit whenever they are used.

The fact that your friends have never had to shoot a burglar shows that the benefit of all those guns has been illusory until now ....

no, it shows the burglars are frightened of being killed!

sadly, i've met too many smack heads - the reason they attack/burgle homes is they feel totally safe from retribution (their words)

i asked them why they did not burgle farms? - the answer - fecking farmers 'have guns!!
 
no, it shows the burglars are frightened of being killed!

sadly, i've met too many smack heads - the reason they attack/burgle homes is they feel totally safe from retribution (their words)

i asked them why they did not burgle farms? - the answer - fecking farmers 'have guns!!

You are a very credulous person.

I always assumed that most smackheads lived in the city - not many farms to burgle. And even those living in the country won't bother to walk maybe miles to a farmhouse.

Are burglary rates in the US lower than the UK? Does higher gun ownership provide the benefit you seem to be asserting?
 
You are a very credulous person.

I always assumed that most smackheads lived in the city - not many farms to burgle. And even those living in the country won't bother to walk maybe miles to a farmhouse.

Are burglary rates in the US lower than the UK? Does higher gun ownership provide the benefit you seem to be asserting?

Many friends in the US with guns, meet and talk to many smackheads about burgulary, interesting life. Seem to know a lot of folk.
 
If you want to fire a gun join the army or something. The novelty wears off once you have to clean it again afterwards.
 
You are a very credulous person.

I always assumed that most smackheads lived in the city - not many farms to burgle. And even those living in the country won't bother to walk maybe miles to a farmhouse.

Are burglary rates in the US lower than the UK? Does higher gun ownership provide the benefit you seem to be asserting?


'most' smackheads by percentage (ie statistics) live in the cities

but they also exist in the villages of 'middle england' - and the city smackheads venture into the shires because they see that as an area of 'wealth' with easy pickings!

very much in the same vein as the 'inter city' blaggers who take a visit to the shires to turn over a bank/building society and quickly leg it back to the 'smoke'!

and thats from the proverbial 'horses mouth' :D
 
so you want to see clay pigeon/game/vermin control banned?

because you don't like guns does not mean others should be denied their sport/pastime

i game shoot and stalk deer (and a bit of clay pigeon as well) - what harm am i doing?

plenty of people enjoy target shooting - which i have done and its requires great skill - Olympic shooters also train with rifles but must train in Europe with pistols because of our stupid laws:mad:

I don't really care for clay pigeon shooting, and am glad we have strict laws to prevent firearms being in ANYONES hand, take up lawn bowling instead. I'm sure the deer considers it hamrful when you pump a bullet into it.

The more guns ppl have , the more innocent deaths will happen.
 

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