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Ok, so now im really confused...

Discussion in 'TVs' started by DanH, Feb 17, 2005.

  1. DanH

    DanH
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    Hi,

    1st post so please be gentle. :hiya:

    Ive been lurking for quite a while now, trying to decide on a new TV. First i started off looking at a 32" Toshiba PF3 crt set which looked good for around £750, but then i spotted the 32" Tosh LCD for around £1200 and thought if im gonna spend the money, whats another £400. Then you know how it goes, spotted the philips PF9976 and thought whats another £300. :rolleyes: (The 9986 is nice, but i cant see PP2 and ambilight being worth £500 more)

    Anyway (try to keep this short) i stumbled into the DLP forum by mistake, and had a quick look in the "Show us yours" thread. Wow. These look bloody nice i think to myself, big screens and good PQ with good value too. Have i stumbled onto what ive been searching in the LCD forum for? I hope so. (Ive ruled out plasmas for various issues, screen burn, native resolutions arent great and a good friend of mine has a Panny and isnt impressed at all)

    The reason i was aiming for 32" sets, is mainly the dimension of the room. Its fairly big, but narrow and i will be sitting about 8-9ft away. Is this too close for a 45" DLP? From some of the stuff ive read, DLP's dont suffer as much as LCDs when you get a bit closer, and as i can get a 45" DLP for the same money....
    Im renting at the moment, so when i decide to move in the next year or 2 i dont want to regret getting a smaller set either.

    It will mainly be used for freeview and DVDs aswell as a PC. How does the PQ compare with LCDs on average. Am i being too adventurous size wise?
    Those pics in the thread i mentioned before blew me away, and the Sagem HD45 looks really nice. (Hopefully the price might come down a bit by the time im ready to buy)

    Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated. I just cant decide on what i want. None of the current LCDs really appeal to me that much at the moment, and im worried about the PQ as well. So that leaves DLP as my possible saviour. But im indecisive about everything in life, and could do with a shove in the right direction. :)

    Thanks, Dan.
     
  2. Dazzlercee

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    DLP all the way for me, but I would say that as I have a Sagem HD-D45.

    The main advantages are price, image quality (1280x720) and the lack of burn in which means that using a PC / XBox is fine. The quality of the PC picture thru DVI is excellent.

    The disadvantages, well rainbows are the only flaw I can think of, but not everyone sees them and even if you do you will not really notice them after a weeks viewing.
     
  3. fleagledog

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    I have a Tosh DLP and it is a revelation in terms of PQ. I would audition as many as you can (Comet seems to be a good place) and then chose the one that looks good to YOU. Dont listen to us biased people :)
     
  4. DanH

    DanH
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    I think im definately leaning towards DLPs. Theres something about them i really like. (Cant put my finger on it, but its something im not getting from LCDs or Plasmas)
    The native 720p res is also appealing, as LCDs are all 1280x768 or 1366x768. Why they keep making them like this i dont know. :suicide: They are having all sorts of problems trying to run PCs 1:1 on them.
    I couldnt care less about rainbows tbh as it doesnt seem that big of an issue and ill be upgrading from an 11 year old 26" 4:3 CRT Hitachi, so it could be black & white and more than likely look better. :D
    Both the Toshiba and Sagem are really nice, and the price for the tosh is tempting to say the least, but i have nice low wood cabinent that id like to keep, and the Sagem would "look" better. (Yea i know, now im just being a tart)

    So you think ill be ok with a 46" at about 9ft away? (One of the armchairs is nearer 8ft) Or am i going to be too close?
     
  5. Razor

    Razor
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    DLP rear pros are great for pc use I have an optoma RD65 which is connected to my pc and I am actually typing this response on it. High Def video is the way forawrd and more material is avialible every day.

    If it was a choice out of the tosh and the sagem I would go for the Sagem 45. I wasnt that impressed with the toshiba compared to the other makes of DLP sets. The picture just wasnt as good as the other makes of dlp sets. It lacked depth and presence. It also has a smearing issue.
    Optoma sets suffer with judder motion on Region 1 or 60Hz playback. Good picture but a pain in the arse if you have a large region 1 collection. (I use a pc to get round the judder issue, altough it is not totally removed).

    Sagem 50' sets arent hdcp compatible which is a must in this day and age especially as HDTV is 12 months away.

    Samsung 50 is a very good set and although it is more expensive than the optoma or sagem 50 it is ment to have a better picture than both.

    I havent seen any LG dlp sets to comment on.

    I hope this is a bit of help in quest to find a perfect DLP set.

    Good Luck :)
     
  6. fleagledog

    fleagledog
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    The picture is case of personal preference of course but I'm not sure what you mean about the smearing issue on the Tosh. I certainly dont have it on mine.
     
  7. dalespitfire

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    Me neither.

    It is personal preference picture wise, but with the Tosh, I also preferred the £500 in my pocket to put towards an HDDVD player later this year!!
     
  8. Razor

    Razor
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    Fleagledog

    There is an issue with gladiator 3:16 and the tosh. If you hunt through the forum threads it is discussed. I think its noted as blurring.

    The magazines that have reviewed the tosh do not rate it as high as the the other DLP sets. Putting Sagem, Optoma and Samsung ahead of this set for picture quality. On the other hand it is one of the cheapest DLP sets which could be picked up for around £1500.
    However if you have the cash I would go for one of the other makes.

    Also if your after customer service stay well clear of Optoma. They are terrible. Optoma owners still have recieved their manual and the HDMI/DVI convertor. Evan though it has been promised many times.

    The best thing to do would be to demo these sets with a good component or dvi connection and a good demo dvd which you know well. Spend time adjusting the settings as shops rarely have them set up properly.

    Good Luck :)
     
  9. dalespitfire

    dalespitfire
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    Hmmmm.....and we all know they are always right :rolleyes:

    Just go and demo everything you can. Try to see every set through every source and method available. If the stores wont accomodate you, take your £1500-£2000 elsewhere!

    And can everyone stop dissing the tosh :smashin:
     
  10. theblacksheep

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    No, feels more like a cinema that way... :)

    Plus if you sit 15ft away you'll only have to get closer to appreciate hi-res video footage! (check out the nasa-hd launch detail)
     
  11. Razor

    Razor
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    Your right about the magazines, they can be biased and give false information. The worst being what tv and video. They will quiet happly say that the picture is soft, has colour bleed, incorrect aspect ratio etc and then award the picture 4 or 5 out of 5.

    To be honest I am only going by what i have seen with the Tosh. I first saw it before it was released at the hifi/video show in hammersmith and as I have said before I was not impressed at all. As for those big ugly speakers on the side which make it about a foot wider, I wasnt impressed with that. I think if you are looking for a budget dlp set then the tosh would suit your needs.
    However if your a fussy cinema fan then i would look else where.

    I am not a great fan of toshiba rear pro sets, I hated the picture from their lcd versions. The grid structure is so visable it looks like your viewing the set through some slatted blinds. The dlp set is of course far better than its lcd brothers. But still it is no way a market leader for picture quality.

    Compared to my RD65 which is 19 inches bigger the tosh cant compete. Although the Rd65 costs £4000 and not £1500 as the tosh does. I guess you get what you pay for.
     
  12. fleagledog

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    Just a couple of points Razor - In fact only one magazine rated it low and the winner of that review was the Samsung which cost twice as much.
    If you read all of the posts on the blurring issue (and there are loads!), you will see that it is not confined to the Tosh. I personally have seen it on Plasmas, other DLP sets and even in the Cinema. It was generally agreed that it was caused by a combination of poor source and contrast settings. When I bought the Tosh, I compared it a Sagem 50 that was sitting next to it. On a poor quality source (ie the standard comet crap feed) the Tosh was much better. On a good DVD feed, the difference was slight, but to my eyes the Tosh was noticably brighter and sharper. It is essential that you audition these sets youself, but the blurring (smearing) is a non-issue.
     
  13. Razor

    Razor
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    Thanks for the info fleagledog. If you are happy with your set then please dont listen to me. I definately agree that DLP is far better than any plasma display. If you look at all of the dlp sets they all have their weak points. Its the first generation of these sets and it can only get better. I was so fustrated when I discovered my optoma set cant do 60hz which isn't what I was told when I bought it (staff at Optoma). In fact i have been battling with optoma for months now. Which is why i cant recommend their sets fully. I have managed a work around with my pc and powerstrip, though this still isnt 100% effective. You mention the blurring issue, I have never seen this on my RD65 but then you have never seen a region 1 dvd picture judder all over the place as I do on my set.

    I think we will be seeing alot of new dlp sets on the market over the next 18 months. I cant wait for a 70' + dlp set to arrive. The bigger the better for me. :)
     
  14. dalespitfire

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    Exactly....at £1500 I'm not going to sniff at paying the same again in 2 or so years for the next generation of DLP's (maybe 1080p?!) :D . Spending £4000.....I think I might be slightly more reluctant (although I do agree, size does matter!!)

    I love the Tosh, hence the reason for buying it. Picture is all down to personal preference and I personally like a hard sharp image......it just looks crisper and clearer.

    I found from demoing the sets available when I bought, that the Samsung/LG pics were way too soft for me - in some cases like viewing through vaseline. I also found the Sagem images to be way too artificial with whites way to overblown and blacks never quite black (and yes, I did adjust the picture settings!!).

    Thing is, I'm never going to slag these other sets off by discounting them as rubbish. One mans meat is anothers poison.

    Like I say, it takes all animals.....we all see things differently!
     
  15. Razor

    Razor
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    The optoma has a great black and white contrast.The Optoma sets come set up with to much contrast and you loss the black detail. If you turn the contrast settings from 15 down to 8 the black detail is all there.

    The main improvement of the Optomas sets over the sagem set's is the black/white (HD2 vs HD2+) as well as hdcp compatiblity. But the sagem can play 60hz with no problems, something which the optoma sets should do but fail misserably. To have a 65' set that displays perfect pal 50 pictures and cant do 60hz is anoying to say the least, I call it the proverbial white elephant. In this day and age, 60hz compatibilty should not be an issue.

    I too like sharp pictures and have seen the vaseline effect as you call it on old crt rear pro sets. Its not nice but some people prefer it. My father has an infocus 7205 HD2+ front projector on an 8 foot screen and I am always adjusting the sharpness as he has it a bit too soft for my liking. He is alway complaining that my picture is too sharp....lol :D

    If you like sharp pictures have you tried any HDTV material. I have a few films now (10 titles) and a few documentries and they will blow you away. This is when the DLP sets come to life. Its got me totally hooked.
     
  16. dalespitfire

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    The only high def stuff I've seen on the set are a few HDDivx and HDWMV trailers streamed from my Laptop (it can't really cope with anything else). Oh and XBOX, which looks awesome.

    Are you viewing your HD stuff via a decent HTPC then Razor?

    I'm hanging fire on that front while I pleasure myself with HDMI-HDMI Superbit stuff through the Panasonic S97 I bought, but intend to take the plunge in a couple of months or so.
     
  17. digitize

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    I just want to say this... unless off-axis viewing doesn't concern you, then DLP might be fine. I've started a thread in this forum, and the rear-pro (except Optoma) owners admit that off-axis is not good...

    I haven't had any replies from Sagem 50 owners yet though - can anyone comment on the off-axis (vertical specially) viewing of this set?
     
  18. Razor

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    As you say no problems with viewing angles on the RD65. The new infocus driven thompson 61' and 50' thin dlp tv sets are ment to be very bad with viewing angles and if your not sat directly in front of the set the picture suffers. They say its the design of the thin tv case which are bringing these problems to the table. The set is only 18cm deep for both models, which is very impressive but not so if it ruins the picture.
     
  19. DanH

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    Thanks for the replys lads. I personally think DLP is the only way to go at the moment, and the sets from most manufactures all look good, have decent connectivity and great value when you look at LCD/Plasma.

    But, and heres the big but, the Mrs isnt impressed at all. (Shame really, if they did one in pink im sure she'd like it)
    In fairness though, one of these beasts would more than likely dominate the room, which isnt a problem for me, but you know what women are like. Looks as though im gonna have to wait untill i move, or buy an LCD/Plasma that i dont really want. (Or a puppy i can use as leverage:))

    Ill hover for a few months i think, and see what happens with DLP / LCD / Plasma.

    Thanks anyway, im sure ill be back at some point asking advice on DLPs and dog food. :smashin:
     
  20. Razor

    Razor
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    I have an RD65 and the missus loves the set. (65 inch set)

    I m sure yours will too, once its installed. If not trade the missus in for a new model. ;)
     
  21. St_ve

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    I expect there will be some 40" or smaller DLP's along soon enough. You'll be spoilt for choice by Xmas.
     

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