1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

ohms/linn speaker amp Prob.

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by mbbx0bbr, Jan 15, 2003.

  1. mbbx0bbr

    mbbx0bbr
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2002
    Messages:
    407
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    UK- North
    Ratings:
    +11
    My current set up for my front speakers are a pair of Eltax Liberty 5+ speakers Bi-wired into my Denon AVR 1803. (Although Denon 1803 does not have seperate ports for Bi-wiring i've used a split wire formation). Below are the specifications for the Denon 1803 from the manual (front speaker info.):

    Power Amplifier rated output:
    Front: 80W+80W (8ohms, 20hz-20khz with 0.08% T.H.D)
    110W + 110W (6ohms, 1khz with 0.7% T.H.D)

    Dynamic Power:
    100W * 2 ch (8ohms), 145W *2 ch (4ohms), 170W * 2 ch (2ohms)

    output terminals:
    Front: 6 - 16 ohms



    Now I would like to connect a pair of Linn Keosa Speakers but am unsure if I should connect because of the spec. (below),

    Type: 2 way loudspeaker with crossover at 2.8kHz
    Frequency: 50Hz -20kHz +/-2db on axis

    * Input Impedance: 4ohms nominal

    * Amp Requirments: at least 80w per channel into 4 ohms



    QUESTION (fianlly):
    Would these *4 ohms* Linn Keosa speaker be compatible with my Denon AVR 1803 and would I also be able to bi-wire them into the Denon (with the split wire formation)?? Would there be any probs with the T.H.D?

    Also other speakers I have looked at are

    Misiion 733e
    Mission M74
    Linn Keosa (as mentioned)

    Q2)
    Are the Linn Keosa the better out of this selection and are
    there any better speakers around the £200 - £300 mark?
     
  2. alexs2

    alexs2
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,896
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,674
    IMHO...of the speakers you've mentioned,the Linns are the best sounding,but will certainly place a bit of a load on the Denon receiver.

    As you can see from the specs you've quoted,the Denon will run 4 ohm loads,but doesnt really have the capacity to double it's output into half the impedance...being honest,this is really the preserve of things like Krells and Levinsons.

    You should be able to biwire them easily,using the banana socket,and the wiregrip parts of the Denon's speaker connectors.

    I've done exactly that with a Denon receiver I had before upgrading....hope that helps.
     
  3. sounddog

    sounddog
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Messages:
    3,373
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    107
    Location:
    Leicestershire, UK
    Ratings:
    +461
    The Linn speakers will definately sound the best of all those you've listed.

    As for powering them ... the Denon will probably power them, but is likely to find it a struggle. If you've got your heart set on them, and you have a set of pre-outs (for the front channels) then look at a decent (but lowish priced) power amp - something like a NAD C270 or Rotel RB1060 (or even the Cambridge Audio P500). If you can't afford new ... there is a ready market around of second hand Rotel 60w or bigger poweramps which will power the Linn's better than the Denon 1803. Of course, if you don't have any pre-outs then all this is irrelevant.


    Victoria
     
  4. mick23

    mick23
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2002
    Messages:
    801
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    uk
    Ratings:
    +2
    i have just tried linn lk85 power amp (85 w 4ohm) about 40w into 8ohms (according to linn ) using preputs from denon 3802 into lk85, driving cdm1nts (8ohm)
    the main idea was to improve 3802 sterio performance, what i found is that a good recorded cd sounded just that bit better than 3802, i was hoping that lk85 would (smooth out the harsher sounding cds i own) lk did not improve things in that department.

    the supprising thing to me was with dvd as lk85 (40w into 8ohms)
    i expected lk85 protection circuits to "engage" with dvd ,this was not the case, the lk when tried with r2 gladiator,r2 lotr, had just as much "grunt -power as 3802" at the same volume and made the zing of arrows etc in gladiator more defined than 3802,

    the only thing about lk was its odd size, but this amp ex dem will still be about £400, but proved to me that its relativly low power (40) was just as powerfull as 3802 so called 105w
     
  5. alexs2

    alexs2
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,896
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,674
    The Linn LK series amps are actually not bad amps,and have quite low secondhand prices,given the quality of what you're buying.

    The build quality is generally pretty bullet-proof,and even short term current delivery is quite good,which is why a nominal 40W Linn amp compared well against the larger Denon(bearing in mind that 40W is only 3dB less than 80W from the SPL point of view).

    The only drawback with the smaller Linns is that they arent up to sustained high power into very demanding loads(and that includes some of Linn's own speakers).....having heard a quad amped set of LK240's running(or trying to)a set of Linn Keltiks before buying the Keltiks,I can vouch for that!
     
  6. sounddog

    sounddog
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Messages:
    3,373
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    107
    Location:
    Leicestershire, UK
    Ratings:
    +461
    What you also have to remember when comparing output powers is that some manufacturers (NAD / Rotel / Arcam / Linn / etc) will be conservative when giving the rating, where as others (Sony / Denon / Yamaha / etc) will give the best case ratings.

    Therefore when you do come to compare the volume you get from your Denon 3802 to the volume from a the Linn ... you will find it a lot closer than you might imagine because Denon have a tendancy to over state the output of their amps where Linn will be more conservative.

    As for just adding a poweramp to improve CD playback ... you have to remember that there is probably more limitation in the Pre-Amp section of the Denon than in the power amp section. Therefore to get a big improvement in quality you need to keep the CD signal away from the Denon entirely ... the only way to do this is with a separate pre-amp (or integrated) amp, feeding just the front channels into it along with the CD player and selecting the source as appropriate. There's been many, many threads relating to this even just over the couple of months I've been using the forums so I won't go into the details yet again unless you want me to.


    Victoria
     
  7. mbbx0bbr

    mbbx0bbr
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2002
    Messages:
    407
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    UK- North
    Ratings:
    +11
    I sent the question (up at the begining of the post) to Denon Cust supp.

    They replied saying that the Denon 1803 will power the speakers OK, but also stated that this denon did not do Bi-wiring.

    Now we have concluded that the speakers shall work on the 1803, will thye work Bi-wired (split wire type)??

    * U have all stated that the denon will be pushed with these speakers, will that effect quality??? *

    Also the Denon AVR 1803 does not have any Pre-Outs, only a sub pre out (guess thats one of the reasons it's cheaper).
     
  8. sounddog

    sounddog
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Messages:
    3,373
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    107
    Location:
    Leicestershire, UK
    Ratings:
    +461
    Bi wireing is just a way of connecting 2 pieces of string from your amp to your speakers. There have been many many discussions about weather it does actually affect the quality.

    What Denon mean by "this denon did not do Bi-wiring" is that there is only a single output for each left and right speaker, not an A-B switch that many amps have and twin output ... this doesn't make any difference and you can just stuff both bits of string into the same connector for each of the 4 terminals.

    Victoria
     
  9. mbbx0bbr

    mbbx0bbr
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2002
    Messages:
    407
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    UK- North
    Ratings:
    +11
    Would pushing by denon with these 4ohm speakers effect the quality of the sound reproducede through them?
     
  10. mbbx0bbr

    mbbx0bbr
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2002
    Messages:
    407
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    UK- North
    Ratings:
    +11
    Does it mean that i will just have to turn the volume up more to push them?
     
  11. mbbx0bbr

    mbbx0bbr
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2002
    Messages:
    407
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    UK- North
    Ratings:
    +11
    Could this damage my amp in the long term ( or speakers)?
     

Share This Page

Loading...