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Oh No! Optoma H30 Rainbow!!! review

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Daithi Lacha, Feb 12, 2004.

  1. Daithi Lacha

    Daithi Lacha
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    ARGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!! ...well sort of !

    Went to see a demonstration of the Optoma H30 yesterday. I had never seen DLP before and was wondering what to expect.
    Well the picture IS amazing....no doubt about it. the PJ was wall mounted 14 feet from the wall, (7 feet up) and gave a roughly 7 foot wide picture.
    First DVD they put on was Shakespeare in Love (i know I know...) but there was no rainbow effect, (except the one about to come from my stomach if they didn't turn the nauseating rubbish off!!)so it was quickly replaced at my request by Apollo 13.
    Hmmmmm.....no signs whatsoever of this fabled Rainbow I thought.
    However.... joy turned to horror when the next DVD was put in.
    I heard that rainbow effect was caused when fast moving images flash by and your eyes try to keep up by darting across the screen...so I asked for the Matrix to be loaded in.
    Now keep this in mind...I was DELIBERATELY looking for rainbow, so I was flitting my eyes across the screen quite a lot....and there it was....rainbow!!! But no problem I decided, just stop darting your eyes and TRYing to find it...BUT... there was one scene where it was SO noticable and I was just watching normally
    ( I don't know a great deal about the Matrix , but for the fans amongst you, it's the scene where CYpher has just killed Dozer and Tank and is on the 'phone to Trinity who is in the Matrix. she is standing in front of some WHITE vertical tubular flourescent lights and boy were they colourful....al thre colours of the....well you know the rest.
    Now question: the picture is so good, am I willing to put up with the odd flash of colour here or go buy the PT AE300 and just be done with it.



    confused:
     
  2. ntslik

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    No go fo the Optoma H30 and just don't watch Matrix....Lol
     
  3. Daithi Lacha

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    Yeah, apart from that it was a sweet machine! But has anyone else had the same experience as me?

    BTW Neil, the dealer told me that Optoma said that they weren't available until the end of Feb or early March. What have you been told?
     
  4. LV426

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    I can't say how it might affect you in more intensive home use. I can say that

    a) I have still yet to see a single chip DLP (no matter how many segments or how many x the wheel speed is) that didn't dazzle me (in the unpleasant sense) at some point or another in some or most material.

    b) I think that one's eyes get more sensitive to this as one gets older. I have certainly become more sensitive to ordinary CRT flicker.

    c) Even if it doesn't bother you, it might bother other members of your family (if any).

    d) At its worst, the effect is actually nauseating - I'm talking plenty of contrasty edges and movement, in a fully darkened room.

    My advice - tread carefully before you part with a lot of your hard-earned cash.
     
  5. Daithi Lacha

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    thanks Nigel,

    Well like I said before on another thread, I had better get this decision right, because if I don't, my wife will kill me..and being a doctor she claims to know dozens of ways to do just that without leaving any trace!!!

    so yeah, it would really be a source of huge annoyance to me to spend £1200 on a PJ when it flashes rainbow colours at me every so often. Then again, so would LCD's and potential dead / stuck pixels !! I guess no technology has got it completely right yet.

    I realise my budget doesn't seem a lot to other readers, and surely the argument would be that if I want perfection, just pay more.
    I'm also sure this argument has been thrashed out a hundred times before on these forums, so I'm sorry if I am boring you by going over old ground, but I could really do with you guys views on this as you live with these products everyday, and that's better than any Magazine review in my books.

    On other threads I was directed to, I have also read other similar arguments, but if you have a p300 (or any LCD) or a H30 (or any DLP) I'd love to hear from you.

    So far there have been two different replies from two people who really know their stuff.
    Neil who sells them and Nigel who's a senior member.
    thanks for them. has anyone else got any other thoughts?

    Based on replies, I'm either going to buy a 300 next week or wait until Mar for the H30.

    and THEN, I'll write my review for you when my cinema is built !!!!

    Thanks again
     
  6. ntslik

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    Stock issue is another subject, I have had one so far but then the call has been slow at present as with any new product, the rainbow issue i think is going to go on for some time, I got a chance to demo the new NEC HT1100, only there was one problem, rainbow!!!
     
  7. gandley

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    its a wierd one this, i dont realy suffer rainbows so thats good
    i only have seen them on end credits.

    My wife however almost puked up is was quite funny, i was like "woz on with you luv" as i had no clue she was getting dizy from the pic.

    but now she does not see rainbows at all and has no side effect.
    (i have to use masking tape on her eyes to keep them still, but it works:rotfl: )

    but seriously she has got used to it
     
  8. LV426

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    "LCD's poential dead/stuck pixels"

    Pixels rarely fail during use. Failed pixels are invariably dead on arrival. (It does happen VERY occasionally and then nearly always in the first hour or two).

    If you do decide not to take the DLP risk, buy your LCD from somewhere where you can check your projector out before you decide to keep it - or somewhere with an enlightened returns policy.

    More unavoidable is the greyness of black - the major LCD flaw. But even that issue is becoming less true with every new model.
     
  9. gandley

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    similar to nigel but you can get stuck or lazy mirrors with DLP, so its a risk either way. i have never seen a stuck mirror(or lazy one)
    but you could ask a dealer to do a check before they send it out(they will charge for this) but remember the 7 day rule for internet trading. you have seven days to change your mind and get the product back to them. so as soon as you get it check it.

    I had a plasma sent to me which had a dead pixel, it went straight back. if i had not done this within seven days i would of been stuffed as this is within manufactures speck.
     
  10. jaybee6

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    I have an H30 installed in my lounge (for a week now) and it is fantastic. I can not see any rainbows. I am getting a 7 foot picture and have yet to sort the screen out but even on a wall it is impressive (first PJ). The only gripe I have is lack of connections, which I am sure is down to getting the price at £1200. If you can stick with either Component, RGB or VGA you will be fine but you cant have all at the same time (you do have composite and S-Video).

    I have recently viewed a AE300 and was impressed by its brightness and noise level but I could not cope with the fuzzy nature of the picture (may have been the installation).

    I would go for the H30
     
  11. Daithi Lacha

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    Srangely enough, the H30 demo I saw had a little bit of fuzziness about itas well (really noticable on the blacks...or should I say dark greys!)
    It kinda looked like a nest of ants from about 3 feet away...) but the dealer said it was due to interference from the power supply....something about it not being isolated.
    ???????
    I know what he meant, just thought it a bit weird!

    Like the idea that the Rainbow effect seems to go away with time Gandley. Never heard of "lazy mirrors" though. I've downloaded the TI DLP flash demo, so I know what you're on about! something to watch out for.


    Thanks for the advice on the rturns policyNigel. I'll make sure I find a good dealer . I know you can't endorse a dealer on this forum as it heads into legal territory, but I think i'm getting a picture of the right dealers to go to! As for dead pixels, I thought they came about through use! Sometimes I read of people who seem to have "developed" a stuck green pixel or whatever.

    So Jaybee6, where did you manage to get an H30?
    I saw the H30 on a Draper Luma and half way through the demo, I pulled the screen up and so help me I could barely tell the difference!
    I may be deaf as a post but I've got 20/20 vision. Who needs a screen when you've got a white wall!

    thanks so far! I'm coming close to a decision!
    I really do appreciate your time!
     
  12. gandley

    gandley
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    youll be amazed the difference a proper screen makes over a bare wall.

    i use a grandview screen and difference was fantastic for me
     
  13. LV426

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    As I say, it does happen but very rarely. I also suspect that many peoples' perceived 'developed' bad pixels are actually dust in the optics which is easily fixed with a 'blow job'.

    FWIW, I have the following LCD devices:

    A Sony VW10 projector - 3.5 years old and 1650 hours use
    A Samsung 22 inch TV - 6 months old
    A LG 15 inch TV - 2 years old
    A Sharp 15 inch PC monitor - 2 years old
    A Panasonic portable DVD with 5 inch screen - one year old
    A digital camera with a 2 (?) inch screen - 6 months old

    The VW10 had a poorly green pixel out of the box. It isn't visible at normal viewing distance, even if you know where to look (but then, this is a high-resolution device and the pixels are tiny). Hence, I didn't make any attempt to swap it. All the other devices are pixel perfect.

    On none of these devices has any pixel failed in use.
     
  14. uczmeg

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    Rainbows, Rainbows.

    If it annoyed you in a demo, it is unlikely to get better. If you think you can live with it make sure your wife demos it too first.

    I went DLP, the wife and I are fine with it. In the end I decided it didn't matter what others thought as 95% of the movies we watch are just the 2 of us.

    You may have better results with more expensive DLPs, but that appears not to be an option.

    With a budget of £1200 surely the Panasonic AE500 is worth a look too?

    For the record a dozen people have seen my HT1000 and no one has complained of rainbows yet....

    Cheers
    Marc
     
  15. SanPedro

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    The Philps Bogart may squeeze your budget a bit more at £1300. Don't know how it compares to the Optoma but looked pretty damn good to me.

    I've seen some PJs with very noticeable rainbow effect. The only one that hasn't so far (at a reasonable price) is the Sim 20 Domino, but it's 3 times yr budget.

    The Philips was not far behind TBH. Just a V. V. faint effect for me. Something i could easily have lived with. Friend of mine had no problems at all. And it's tiny to boot.

    see here for price



    Chris
     
  16. ntslik

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    Chris,

    You do realise Projectorpoint prices are all ex-vat
     
  17. Daithi Lacha

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    Thanks for all the comments !
    Keep 'em coming!!!!

    I clicked on that link for the Phillips Bogart. Looks good, never considered it before now...I'll swot up a bit more on that one.

    re: screen: I think there's no doubt that I'll buy a screen. I spend so much time researching a PJ, that I haven't even thought about which screen yet!
    I must have a look at the Grandview you mentioned

    re: LCD's: It does seem that there are just a few ones that come with stuck pixels. Luck of the draw I guess.

    As for the P500, to be honest I can stretch to a little more, as I am in the good position of being able to claim back the PJ through my business...and I'm VAT Registered, so added VAT won't make a difference.
    is the HT1000 a lot better than the H30 then?

    and yeah....I think I will bring my wife to the demo room, as then there can be no complaints if its a joint decision, eh!!!
     
  18. uczmeg

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    Yes the HT1000 is a lot better than the H30 (although it is arguably similar to the H56).

    But it costs a hell of a lot more too!

    You can pay for a Pixel check on LCD projectors from good dealers, so you don't have to have one arrive with dead pixels. Look at suppliers like Ivojo and Nexnix.

    If you need to go LCD and have the budget look at the Sony HS20, it seems to be getting good reviews. However they are up at the £2k mark and you just missed a bargain new one in the for sale forum.

    Cheers
    Marc
     
  19. Daithi Lacha

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    Woaaaahhhhh there horsey!!!!

    SALE forum?!!

    what's that?
     
  20. uczmeg

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    Look for:

    AV Hardware classified adverts

    In the General section at the top level of the forums.

    Also keep your eye on the special offers forum.

    Be warned they can be a very dangerous to your bank balance if you aren't strong....

    Cheers
    Marc (the very weak)
     
  21. SanPedro

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    Daithi

    It's the classifieds section on this here forum.

    Its below the projectors section.

    Lots of bargains to be found there.

    ntslik: As for the VAT. Doh! I wasn't looking too hard TBH.
    Dontcha just hate these 'trade' sites.

    Still... at £1500 it's still a pretty fine machine. Wonderfully smooth compared to my AE100 LCD machine.

    Chris
     
  22. niblue

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    I demoed the H30 last weekend (at Sevenoaks in Edinburgh) and, despite deliberately looking for rainbow issues I didn't see any.

    Fingers crossed it doesn't become an issue for me, giving my own H30 is currently sitting in the shop waiting for me to come and pick it up!
     
  23. (GTV)Chris

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    Hang on a minute.. Shakespear in Love is a great movie :)
    I suffered from rainbows on the H30 so I went for the AE500 and haven't regretted it for a moment.
    It is all about personal taste..
    But the AE500 has a great contrast ratio and I love the smoothe screen technology.

    Cheers

    C
     
  24. bobsyeruncle

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    We have an H30 in our demonstration room and have sold 4 in the last 5 days. Only one customer so far has had a problem with rainbows. We project onto a 7ft screen from a distance of approx 14ft.
    It is worth taking time to set up the projector properly as the picture is stunning.
    I do not see many customers purchasing an H56 when a properly set up H30 is so good, and much cheaper.

    Robert Shearer
    Laser Audio
    :)
     
  25. bobsyeruncle

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    We have an H30 in our demonstration room and have sold 4 in the last 5 days. Only one customer so far has had a problem with rainbows. We project onto a 7ft screen from a distance of approx 14ft.
    It is worth taking time to set up the projector properly as the picture is stunning.
    I do not see many customers purchasing an H56 when a properly set up H30 is so good, and much cheaper.

    Robert Shearer
    Laser Audio
    :)
     
  26. Jeff

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    Rainbows are more about the source than anything, I remember a poll on AVS and a big majority saw them. If you are one of the 3 out of 4 people that sees them, you are going to see them on ANY 1 chip DLP, yes faster wheels help but you will still see them.

    PS In our family 5 out of 5 saw rainbows once they had been explained and pointed out.
     
  27. Daithi Lacha

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    Yes...As good as the H30 is, I think anytime I sit down to watch a movie,I will always be looking for rainbows and eventually I feel it will prove to be too much of a distraction.

    The PT 500 was reviewed in this months Home Cinema and they gave it a very good review. So it's either that or the PT300.
    LCD wins on a technicality!

    Panny it is then!!

    (Now....to find the best deal / dealer!!!!!!)

    May I thank all those who helped with their invaluable advice over the last month or so. I will post a review when I get it!

    You're very very nice people!
     
  28. (GTV)Chris

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    I am in Warrington...If you can't find a demo anywhere I would be happy to arrange a showing :).
    As for the best deal, Probably the interenet, I payed a few hundred quid more from a shop but that was the way I wanted to do buisiness.

    Good luck.

    Chris
     
  29. Daithi Lacha

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    As I'm in Chester, that would be very handy!
    Thanks for the offer, I'll take you up on that if that's OK!
     
  30. (GTV)Chris

    (GTV)Chris
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    no problem drop me a PM.
     

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