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oh no, not again: CRTvLCDvPlasma TVs 36in+. Is CRT still best pic?

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by asherpat, May 24, 2005.

  1. asherpat

    asherpat
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    i have an excellent projector (ToshMT8) so my movie needs are sorted out. however, for terrestrial TV viewing, esp of footie/motor-racing, i want to buy a large screen (the eyes are not what they used to be).

    Plasma:
    When i look at any plasma, from 2 times screen width, i cant stand the pixelisation/"screen-door" effect. in fact, i cant understnand how people can say that their cherished plasma is of good pic quality...if u watch from more than 2 times screen width (to lose the screen-door) then what's the point of a large screen? i also want to puke when i see people pay thousands and then watch a 4:3 pic at 16:9 to fill the whole of the screen (all the chicks look kinda fat and round)...

    Lcd:
    large lcd's are still rare but Sharp looks a bit artificial even if slightly better than plasma. The Korean brands look awful to me. i also heard that in fast movement the lcd gives nasty artefacts, is it true? if so, so long the footie...

    CRT
    so we come back to the old faithful...the pic can be fanatastic except that at large screens (>36in/80cm) there can be some geometry issue at the extremes of the screen but that is not so critical in case of footie. Also, since most of the footie is broadcast 4:3, the advantage of 36in widescreen over 29in std screen is 5cm/2in in height of the picture. Also heard that some TVs have 1/2 second processing time, so unsuitable for PS/X-box, is it true?

    Bottom line:
    1. wud any of u with experience in three techs agree with the above and particularly, with the fact that CRT is still visibly better than plasma and lcd? if so, why buy plasma/lcd?
    2. is it worth waiting for a plasma/lcd that will come close to CRT?
    3. if CRT, which 36in is a good value? most recent design? is there/will there be an HDMI/DVI CRT?
     
  2. oh aye

    oh aye
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    The reason most people buy a flat screen be it plasma or lcd is the size and convenience as well as good picture quality, they are very thin and light compared to a crt and can be wall mounted. Good quality flatscreens do rival crt tvs, although cheep and nasty screens are very poor. When crt widescreen tvs first come onto the uk market a good Sony 32inch was about 2,500 quid although now they are about 800 quid. The same can be said for flatscreens the prices when they first came out were very high now a good screen can be purchased for about two grand. No crt tvs in the uk will be hd compatible because manufactures see the future as being flatscreen. Although crt hd tvs are available in the usa but they have had hd for some time now. I would say if you demo a panasonic or pioneer plasma, or a philips or sharp lcd it would rival a crt for picture quality.
    A decent crt 36 inch i would look at the panasonic tx-36pd30 it has component inputs with progressive scan and very good picture quality.
     
  3. GalacticaActual

    GalacticaActual
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    A well set up CRT from the top names should still give a better picture for normal tv Viewing. However,
    Most CRts are not well set up and will suffer from.
    1)Bad geometric errors including bowing and slanting of the screen.
    2)The dirty screen effect on camera pans.
    3)Bad screen purity errors.


    Now a plasma does not suffer form any of these faults and is also lighter and can be mounted on the wall.The problems arise because a plasma will display exactly what you put into it. Because of the nature of a plasma it tends to show the problems with low bit rate channels (ie sky) This is one of the better things about CRTs they tend to be able to show sky and terestrial tv programs in a better way. :)
     
  4. asherpat

    asherpat
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    dont get me wrong, on the paper, specs, plasma looks a fantastic replacement of CRT in terms of picture, color and size and style. i am also willing to pay twice the CRT price, if the new techs will deliver pic quality.

    but the style/size is not the point, i want pic quality and when i look at plasma from a distance that justifies its big size (ie less than 2.5 times screen-width), the pixellization drives me nuts, so i am not sure i will enjoy it. perhaps the issue is with the fill-factor of the pixels, perhaps i am not auditioning the right plasmas, i dont know, whatever.

    my question is for people who own good plasmas or lcds of 36in+ (esp HD, ie at least 1200x700 pixels): do you see screen-door effect from 2-2.5 meters viewing?
     
  5. red16v

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    Hi, all uk football matches are transmitted in 16:9. Go to Richer sounds and look at the Fusion 42" Plasma - its the best I've seen and to my eyes looked like a crt picture. As for me ? I would stick to crt at the moment. Regards, yt.
     
  6. Maxi_TK96

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    I have had a neat opportunity to test 4 different 36 inch CRTs in 3 years and while I have warm memories of CRT technology I wouldn't go back to CRT any more:
    x for computer use I have LCD monitor
    x for home theater use plasma

    As far as home theater use the biggest problems with CRT are geometry problems and lighting differences (meaning dark blotches or dark lines) in the picture. Granted CRT will give you the best contrast and detail but you will be able to forgive your plasma a lot because the bigger size makes the difference. Yes a 36 inch CRT is small where a 42 inch plasma is starting to feel comfy....and this is from a guy who likes to oogle his preciousssss at less than 2 meters. One way of putting it would be to stay that the problems of current plasma technology are less bothersome than those of CRT technology.
     
  7. Howard Pitfield

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    The SlimFit HDTV CRTs we've lusted over in the US will be on sale in Europe - saw prices on German and Dutch site. The 32" works out at £650. Can't tell from the specs that HDMI is still on the set.

    Samsung UK replied to my email query that they didn't know anything about HDTV sets......

    H
     
  8. asherpat

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    which plasma do you use, is it HD, and can you see the dreaded pixels from 2-3 metres?
     
  9. CJROSS

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    All depends what you are going to hook up to you display I reckon, I use a RGB Humax & Component PAL/PS output from Toshiba DVD-V player, space was not a concern for me, but I had a fixed budget of betweenn £1000-1500 thus I went into JLs to see what was achievable for that price ranges, LCD did not come close to CRT TBH. And a the only 37” Plasma I liked was the Panny Viera but way over budget. FWIW I felt the Viera was fine in DVD-V mode (they all are) but once you feed it a comprimised signal from say Sky or Freeview, well then it lost out to the 36” CRTs of Panny/Toshiba (PAL/PS comp. input ones that is).

    I ended up spending £1100 on the Toshiba 36ZP48P with an added bonus of having a sound system, a quality that no LCD/Plasma could rival or most CRTs FTM either.

    Good luck, best way is to have a look yourself, I did my visual upgrade over a few weeks, ie going back into JLs and other retailers to see the difference, CRTs always for VFM V Performance came top. Only space being the negative issue IMHO.

    So 36" CRT for me.
     
  10. TV Headache

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    It's certainly not mentioned on any of the specs that I've seen.
     
  11. Tim-Ann

    Tim-Ann
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    Hi there,

    I run a Panasonic TX-36PD50 and bought a Panasonic 42” PW7 to try and so far am not impressed by the PQ of the Plasma running Sky through a JS Scart to VGA box which was supposed to improve the PQ on the Plasma. The issues with lip-sync are not good and so I’m about to try a 37” PWD7 and if that doesn’t work not sure if I should buy a 37” PV500 and see if that works.

    But my conclusion IMO so far is that a good 36” CRT is better than the Plasmas I’ve tried and seen.

    But of course you can’t stick a big CRT on a wall which is what I would like to do.

    Just my opinion for what it’s worth, Tim.
     
  12. FlyingBig

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    Is lip sync a widespread issue? Are you getting sync issue using an amplifier or through the tvs speakers? If it is the tv speakers it concerns me. Anyone care to comment on lip sync issues with plasmas?
     
  13. Tim-Ann

    Tim-Ann
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    Hi there,

    I wasn't using an Amp I didn't want to I'd hoped for a all in one wall solution so I was using the Panasonic side mounted speakers, I also tried separate speakers but still the lip-sync problems were there on some of the main Sky channels.

    I do not repeat do not get lip-sync issues with my TX-36PD50 CRT TV only the Plasmas I’ve so far tried.

    Tim.
     
  14. oh aye

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    I find various lip sync problems with sky, only on certain channels, and i am still running my philips 32 crt awaiting arrival of my new viera. I have tried this through the tv speakers and my av amp.
     
  15. FlyingBig

    FlyingBig
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    I have experienced this before through my projection screen but that is understandable but to happen with a plasma screen is a no no. Disgraceful to find a better word because if you are getting sync issues with sky then you MUST be getting a very minor lip sync issue running through your dvd player? From my experience this happens with my projector.
     
  16. Eiji

    Eiji
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    I truly hope the Samsung SlimFit HDTV CRTs are released in the UK as I'd snap one up quick!
     
  17. Garfield

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    I spent weeks making my mind up, checked out Plasma, LCD, Rear Proj ... in the end I got a 36" CRT. For my money the other technologies aren't up to it for what they cost. The plasma's and LCD at sensible money simply had no decent resolution, suffered tearing, pixellation and other issues - like some didn't have tuners etc which cost even more on top, the rear proj were only any good in a dark room - yes even now.

    One thing I must say is watch the demos and take care when taking too literally 'comments' from others, something I have found since getting the big CRT is that not all programs are created equal and demos are set up to sell what the dealer want to sell not what is best. I have examples where even DVD's have poor resolutions, I have seen some real nasties on Sky too due to the compression they often use, the bigger the TV the easier the faults are to spot, to prove the point take a 320x240 jpg picture and view normal size, then zoom it to 1280x1024 (or the biggest resolution you have) - looked OK at 320 didn't it - at the big resolution it looks cr ap).

    As for some of the defects I hear people talk about - ignore 'em - go check it out yourself at the end of the day it is stuck in front of you not them. Too often I think many slag off the TV when it is the material or signal that's to blame, colour or convergence when their own speakers (non shielded) or setup are to blame - if YOU like it then it's good enough.

    Do invest in a copy of Digital Video Essentials though - well worth it.
     
  18. erg

    erg
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    I did exactly the same as Garfield did above. Checked out LCDs and Plasmas and end up buying a 36'CRT, Panasonic 36PL35 (equivalent to PL32). )

    I did not like LCD TVs. Plasmas were better to my eye. Anyway CRT's are definitely one step better at least. The closest rival of the CRTs was Pioneer PDP-535..

    All above are valid for non-HD signals or at least non-quality signals. When HD steps in, the frame of reference changes. But for the not-so-high-quality-signals, even fancy Acuity (or alike) digital processing ruins everything.(That is why I chose to buy a 36PL35 instead of a PD30).

    Migrating from a 21" to a 36" was not so much of a fun for the first week though, at least until I realized that I need to move the sofa further back. 21" CRT is even better than even a High Definition 50" keeping the same viewing distance.
     
  19. jckm2000

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    Samsung Slimfit 30" HDTV is available from Germany. It's got a different model number to the US. Search for : Samsung WS-32Z308P on google.de .

    I'm one of those happy people who bought a Yammy rxv-750 from Germany and saved a tidy sum.
    Oh yes I must agree about poor quality Plasmas and LCDs btw.... I couldn't believe how bad they are (except for some of the real pricey models) the quality is about as bad as a poorly encoded Divx download. Why spend good money on a great receiver, & DVD player and then ruin it by playing it through such a cr ap display??

    I'm sticking with CRT.

    Cheers,

    Jon.

    Scratch that.... now available here in the UK:
    http://www.be-direct.co.uk/productDetails.asp?id=17260
     
  20. Eiji

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    According to this US site, the TV only displays at native 1080i so 480i/480p/576i/576p/720p are all upscaled to 1080i :confused:

    http://www.tvauthority.com/SlimFit-TVs/Samsung-TX-R3079WH.asp

    Would this make for instance make a 480i source look horrible on this TV?

    The HDMI input has been axed for the European model :mad: but they have added 100Hz scan and the following scan modes: Digital / Progressive / Natural.

    Maybe setting the scan mode to progressive (more like a internal de-interlacer) will make the picture somewhat like a 1080p image if it displays everything in 1080i :D

    Also, here is the English manual for it:

    http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/c...0503000443390_AA68-03554A-00Eng_0309_book.pdf

    According to the manual, it only displays 480i, 480p,576i, 576p, 720p, 1080i @ 50Hz :confused:
     
  21. russw

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    I've just had an email from samsung customer services stating that the UK slimfit model does NOT have a HDMI connection.
     
  22. chriszzzzzz

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    I have this set and can confirm it only has component inputs and obviously doesn't have the HD tuner. It does have HD capabilities though. I realy enjoy mine and it looks great to.
    The HD issue will not matter for most people for at least the next five years IMO. Sky will start with movie channels next year, however HD being the norm won't be an issue until around 2010 when the BBC are planning on trying it. So if you get at CRT now it will be due a replacement by then. The current crop of cheap LCD's and plasmas will be looking realy sad by then as well. Theres even SHDTV being developed (way off yet) but nothing is future proof.
     
  23. David Mackenzie

    David Mackenzie
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    :mad: Why the h*ll not? That really bugs me! Sony just embarassed themselves last year by taking digital connections off of their "HD Ready" LCD TVs and are promptly reinstating them for this years' models before the launch of Sky HD. Why would Samsung do this?
     
  24. TV Headache

    TV Headache
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    Which digital connections were they? And were they HDCP compliant?
     
  25. Mac07

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    Pardon the ignorance people, im looking to buy a plasma tv, iv been reading this forum till my eyes hurt and now im even more confused.
    Since HD wont be mainstream till about 2010, would cable and sky tv be better viewed through a SD tv.
    I dont watch a load of films, but i do watch a lot of sport, so would the panasonic PE30 or PE50 be a better choice than the 500 HD series?????

    Any help here would be much appreciated...... :thumbsup:
     
  26. TV Headache

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    Welcome to the forum Mac07. You may be better off starting a new thread with this one, as it's a little off topic, but since you're new here...

    When people say that HD won't be mainstream they probably meen that it won't be on terrestrial. Sky haven't clearly said what content they will broadcast in HD next year or how much it will cost so you could find that they will show football matches or sports from the US in HD at affordable prices. Not sure what cable operators will do but they will almost certainly follow Sky, although they are likely to take longer to roll it out around the country because each regional network will need upgrading to cope with HD signals.

    If you're in any doubt about which expensive TV to go for, (given the present uncertainty) I would suggest buying a cheap-ish 50Hz CRT set for now and keep that until the HD situation is more clear. 50Hz TVs tend to be better for sports than either 100Hz models or today's flat pannel TVs anyway.
     
  27. Welwynnick

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    We have a 36" CRT and a 50" plasma at home for some reason - I suppose I thought the latter would replace the former. The CRT whips the plasma for PQ, but I wouldn't write plasmas off so soon. Have a look at a Panny PV500 before you do that. Not easy to find just yet, but it's probably the first plasma I've seen that's an acceptable alternative to CRT. Don't forget DLP rear projection units are preferred by quite a few people. Nothing beats watching a DVD on a PC though.
     

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