Official Rift S announcement soon?

MikeKay1976

Distinguished Member
https://uploadvr.com/oculus-email-rift-s/

I have concerns about inside out tracking for tracking hand controllers but I think oculus have earned enough credit for past devices to give them benefit of doubt before assuming it will be rubbish. Maybe it will be inside out with optional constellation support? (Am sure 2 sensors would be just fine then).
Also interested in resolution and FOV. All rumours hint this will be a minor upgrade and not a totally new generation device but I will be dissapointed if not at least a slight FOV bump to say 120 or 130.

Resolution wise will be happy with something similar to vive pro or odyssey and am not worried about lenses at all oculus have fantastic lenses in the go and that is their entry level device. Am sure rift s will be as good or better.
 
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Deleted member 105093

Guest
Having had some time in the Samsung WMR headset I can attest that the tracking is pretty good. With the extra cameras this new rift model is reported to have, there is no reason to assume that it could be on par with current tracking standards, bar the obvious limitations.

Also makes it easier to set up and more non tech head friendly.
Going to be an interesting week.

Just an after thought if the Rift S is true then this means the new HTC headset will be very similar. You would almost think they could run all the same apps etc without much tweaking. Unless Zukerberk wants it locked down like he did the rift.

The later point will be my deciding factor in the next gen of VR headset purchases for me I think. I don't like facebook but its part of life at the moment so I tolerate it and use it.
 
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MikeKay1976

Distinguished Member
It is the "obvious limitations that worry me tho. Games like echo arena and sports bar vr as well as bow and arrow games need to track things very near your face and behind you. Proof in the pudding will be in the eating but personally I would not want to sacrifice that for a bit of extra convenience myself.
As an optional extra I can't imagine (total guess) that sticking a few infra red lights on the hmd and controllers would add that much to cost.
Regarding locked down headsets I don't want to go down that rabbit hole here ...... I am still not convinced it is oculus fully at fault there given there is only 1 winner with a store that can sell to everyone vs one that is locked to 1.

Valve have shown in all gaming genres that they to not give 2 squits about quality control.... I am glad other store fronts are stricter there.

Hopefully the Kronos group will come up with something sooner rather than later
 
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Deleted member 105093

Guest
Yea I get where you coming from with the store fronts. My only concern is years down the line we could have DRM locked paper weights that cant be used. with regards to the tracking, its amazing how accurate gyros and accelerometers can be. Wii mote?
 

Atmos

Well-known Member
I've been following the Rift shortages and trying not to read too much into that. But are Oculus about to stop Rift sales all together and completely dump constellation? Either way I wouldn't be suprised.

VR has grown so little over 3 years we're basically still at ground zero.

Rift S is showing how Facebook has abandoned High End PC because if the specs are true it will be what many of us predicted years ago what Rift 2 would be. Dump constellation, go with inside out tracking. Keep resolutuion and FOV low to conform to low powered PCs.

Rift S is really Quest lite without all the compute and battery power built in. I don't know if that will be good enough for current Rifters. It will probably sell for £300.

In terms of Spec, it's a tough one. We're already seeing Qualcomm go for 2kx2k per eye and Cosmos being a Qualcomm clone follow suit. Resolution - 110FOV, because its conforms to the masses and cuts out all the compatibility with different eyes. I'm not expecting anything ground breaking. You simpley can't get bigger FOV without either bigger screens or bigger lenses.

So you have to look to Samsung with WMR2 to get the next jump unless Valve surprise everyone.
 

MikeKay1976

Distinguished Member
I am not predicting rift S specs. Most rumours are it is an interim upgrade not a next gen device (so like vive pro but hopefully without the vive pro price)
BUT that said what you say about FOV is not necessarily true.
Oculus dome had a 140degree fov and was a hmd the same dimensions AND weight of the CV1 (and that included the moving screens which is something I am not expecting rift s to have).
I am not saying I am 100% on board with the direction oculus is going however they seem to be the ones looking to get VR to the masses certainly not pimax or htc with their £1000 hmds. Just look at PSVR (a product you champion) this is technically very poor compared to PCVR and yet that is doing more to vr taking off than most of the pc players.
I see no evidence that oculus are abandoning pc vr but they do seem to be looking to the main stream not the enthusiast. (But then imo you cant moan on 1 hand that VR has not taken off and then on the other hand complain if companies try to deliver a product for the masses)
 
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thesnowdog

Well-known Member
If Oculus have any sense it'll have the same specs as the Quest, LCD displays to keep the cost down and optional sensors to allow better 360 tracking.

We've seen from the Quest that the Quest uses IR LEDs on its Touch controllers so I can't see why the Rift S controllers will be any different. And we've seen from the Rift that people are willing to buy extra sensors to improve tracking.

The FOV is a tough one. If you're going to have a bigger FOV you need a bigger resolution so that you have a decent PPD. There's always a chance that they'll go for a bigger FOV and fixed foveated rendering but if they do that then you'll have similar problems that Pimax have had with idiots saying that things look bad when they're looking outside of the sweet spot by moving their eyes instead of moving their heads.

A bigger FOV is quite important to me personally but I don't want a higher resolution and higher FOV at the expense of needing to upgrade my GPU.

It's certainly going to be interesting to see what decisions and trade-offs they've made whilst developing this.
 

Atmos

Well-known Member
Wasn’t that why Iribe quit? Because. He wanted to go all out but Oculus put the brakes on and wanted and watered down HMD?

I doubt Rift S will be 14OFOV and have Constellation because the give away us in the name - Rift S.

If Rift S has 140FOV and double the resolution it would be in the same realm as Pimax 5k+ and need a 1080ti.

But GDC starts in 2 days. No more waiting.
 

MikeKay1976

Distinguished Member
I agree it is a balancing act and whilst I am not expecting anything insane I would hope that after 4 years of consumer vr oculus would be looking at modest improvements in all areas.

If anything fov has gone steadily backwards with dk1 - dk2 to CV1.

Whilst oculus are not going to do anything stupid like demand a gtx 1080 as minimum specs I don't think a modest increase in minimum specs is too outrageous. Iirc 1050ti is min specs now of current gen cards for cv1
I think gtx 1070 or equivalent would be fine for min specs for an early 2020 hmd aimed at a large market , and with that I think there should be room for a small fov improvement

@Atmos I never said I expect 140fov. I am hoping for 120 to 130 (I was hoping for 140 if oculus were going to do a full fat rift 2 but rumours seem to be this is not it.

But my point is you said you can't get 140 without bigger screens and lenses and my response was oculus have already done it in a Dev kit, using the same hmd size as the rift so it is possible.
 
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Deleted member 105093

Guest
I cant find any actual specs for the HTC Vive Cosmos apart from a headset its supposed to be based on. I think its a bit too soon to be making assumptions.
 

thesnowdog

Well-known Member
Wasn’t that why Iribe quit? Because. He wanted to go all out but Oculus put the brakes on and wanted and watered down HMD?

I doubt Rift S will be 14OFOV and have Constellation because the give away us in the name - Rift S.

If Rift S has 140FOV and double the resolution it would be in the same realm as Pimax 5k+ and need a 1080ti.

But GDC starts in 2 days. No more waiting.

I don't think we'll see 140 degrees FOV, and (I hope I'm wrong!) it's also unlikely imo that we'll see any increase in the FOV compared to the Rift...

...but what I'm 100% certain about is that they'll definitely be changing the lenses rather than doing what HTC did with the Vive Pro and using the same crappy lenses that it's predecessor has lol :D

And we already know, at least according to rumours, that it's going to utilise inside out tracking via four cameras on the headset. But what we DON'T know is whether Insight inside out tracking can be used in COMBINATION with Constellation tracking.

It would certainly make sense to do so because unless they want games like Echo Arena to be unplayable they need to do SOMETHING to improve the tracking of the controllers when they're out of view of the four cameras or the controllers are held too close to the cameras.
 

Thug

Moderator
What does the S stand for?
Do you think that they will keep that name (Rift S), or change it?
Didn't the original Rift have a different name up until release (Crescent Bay or similar)?
 

thesnowdog

Well-known Member
The Rift S is just a temporary name. It's actually going to be called the Rift Harv when it's released. True story.
 

MikeKay1976

Distinguished Member
Hypothetically.... would you guys be happy if quest and Rift S were essentially the same but you plugged in a hdmi cable into it to get "Rift Mode"?.

This would mean no increase in FOV and would be the same limitations screen and lens wise as what ever the quest has but would be 1 HMD to do everything?

I think this would be an interesting concept and is probably what i was expecting at some point in the future. I think IF when in rift mode it still supported consellation as well as inside out tracking i would be happy with that, but if not then i think i would give it a swerve...

I am not that bothered about stand alone VR with the limitations of the hardware going in the quest and if no increase in FOV and am just dont have enough faith in inside out tracking yet so would need to suck it and see before buying.

BUT IF it optionally supported my sensors so i knew i would get 100% tracking AND could probably lose 1 sensor then i could be interested.

i imagine it would be good for people with a motion platform too.....
 

Atmos

Well-known Member
Are we in for a suprise or will Rift S be what we expect - a Quest Lite?

If Oculus went all out with FOV, Resolution and wireless it would undoubtedly be called Rift 2.

If Rift S is Quest Lite the bigger question is how long before the real Rift 2 stands up, 2020, 2021?
 

MikeKay1976

Distinguished Member
Are we in for a suprise or will Rift S be what we expect - a Quest Lite?

If Oculus went all out with FOV, Resolution and wireless it would undoubtedly be called Rift 2.

If Rift S is Quest Lite the bigger question is how long before the real Rift 2 stands up, 2020, 2021?
Oculus do seem to be looking at mass appeal even for PC VR and putting the enthusiast level on the back burner for now

I think this is good for oculus, good for VR as a whole... but as someone who is an enthusiast kind of sucks for me.

But the problem is for me all the other players currently have issues for me which are show stoppers. (I am interested to know more about valves rumoured HMD)

I suspect you are right and RiftS will be closer to quest than to a rift 2... BUT I still am hoping that if it is a separate device to the quest that they push the FOV envelope a little bit (resolution and lens improvements is a given).

IF it is just a clone of the quest without the compute then they should do us all a favour and just put a hdmi / DP socket on the quest and have 1 product.
 

Atmos

Well-known Member
This is exactly why I prefer the Cosmos which removes all the compute and leaves it to either the PC, mobile phone or other add on compute device. It means Cosmos is not restricted like the Quest and can function like a Rift S.

I’m hoping everyone goes 135-140FOV because after owning the Pimax for a month their is no going back. I wouldn’t like to live with VR stuck with 100FOV for another 3 year cycle. That would suck for everyone.
 

MikeKay1976

Distinguished Member
RE cosmoscThat is certainly an interesting way of doing it.
RE rift S.... Hopefully won't be long now and we will know a bit more, tho I doubt we will get hard specs. Hopefully Tested or similar will be able to give a rough comparison
 

thesnowdog

Well-known Member
Are we in for a suprise or will Rift S be what we expect - a Quest Lite?

If Oculus went all out with FOV, Resolution and wireless it would undoubtedly be called Rift 2.

If Rift S is Quest Lite the bigger question is how long before the real Rift 2 stands up, 2020, 2021?

I'm expecting a Quest-Lite but with the option of using sensors to improve the tracking. Same FOV as the Rift but higher resolution displays. We'll also probably see ASW 2.0 being released at the same time I think.

It would be a bit pointless releasing a headset with a higher FOV because the vast majority of people won't own a GPU capable of running one without foveated rendering.

Assuming that the Rift S is released this year we'll see the Rift 2 being released in 2022 with foveated rendering, varifocus and 140 degrees FOV with the same form factor as the Rift and Rift S. I'd rather have only 140 degrees FOV with the same form factor than 170 degrees FOV that the Pimax has but having a bloomin great big ugly as fudge form factor, although Oculus might go for curved displays too (assuming that the displays in the Half Dome WEREN'T curved of course), because they have a patent for using curved displays. I'm not sure where that would stand with the patent that Samsung have regarding curved displays though, I'm pretty sure that the patent that Oculus got granted was granted before the Samsung one but I will stand to be corrected on that!

I also think that we'll see similar fast-switch LCDs in the Rift S and Rift 2 from BOE that they have in the Oculus Go too.
 

MikeKay1976

Distinguished Member
Hmmmm well I must admit I thought it would be odd announcing a rift S at the same time as trying to big up quest.... But with so many rumours I guess I may have fallen for the hype. Whoever made up that rumour however is a winker. Feel free to substitute 1st vowel!

Hopefully they will still announce something in a few days
 

thesnowdog

Well-known Member
There's a press embargo until the 20th so SOMETHING is going to happen during GDC I think. There wouldn't be any point in an embargo otherwise.

Could be Quest news, could be Rift S news. Could be hardware, could be software or it could be a bit of both.

But as far as this talk of Rift S goes I'd say there's no smoke without fire.
 

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