Oculus's embarassing direction for VR

[thesnowdog]

Actually I don't have paperweights for sensors. I don't have ANY sensors. I gave my OG Rift to a mate of mine when I got my Rift S.

And, as I've mentioned numerous times, I had the cash to get a Valve Index but the resolution and FOV increases weren't big enough for me personally to make the price worth paying. For that sort of money I'd expect Pimax resolution and FOV.

As far as the Quest 2 is concerned I'll primarily be getting one to test my game on unless the PC VR experience is better than the Rift S. I wasn't originally planning on getting one at all, but I've got £82 worth of cash from these survey things and am expecting maybe another 50 or 60 quid before I get fed up doing the things lol So I'll effectively be getting a Quest 2 for £160 or so.

Also I don't remember saying that I'd ditch my headset when a better one comes out, I've always said that I'm happy with my Rift S. As far as I remember I've ALWAYS said that I'd only get another headset if/when Oculus release a headset with the Half Dome features. I'm more than happy with my Rift S at the moment, and as I've said above if I get a Quest 2 I'll primarily be getting it to test my game on unless it offers a better PC VR experience than the Rift S.

I would have been tempted by the G2 but I'm saving up to get a Yaw VR motion simulator next year.

 

[Atmos]

And, as I've mentioned numerous times, I had the cash to get a Valve Index but the resolution and FOV increases weren't big enough for me personally to make the price worth paying. For that sort of money I'd expect Pimax resolution and FOV.

The truth is Knuckles and base stations cost exactly the same on the Pimax site so you are left with a £460 Index v a £1000 Pimax headset. Not exactly the same is it?

 

[thesnowdog]

What Pimax package can you get for £920 that includes Knuckles and Base Stations?

There isn't one. Read my post again.

I'll make my post clearer if it helps. If I was going to give Valve or anyone else £919 I'd expect the same or similar resolution and FOV that you'd find on a Pimax headset. A 1600p resolution and 130 degree FOV for that sort of price doesn't cut the proverbial mustard, particularly the resolution. If it was 2160p resolution and 130 degree FOV I'd have one sitting on my coffee table on top of my laptop instead of a Rift S. But it wasn't. So I haven't.

 

[Atmos]

There isn't one. Read my post again.

I'll make my post clearer if it helps. If I was going to give Valve or anyone else £919 I'd expect the same or similar resolution and FOV that you'd find on a Pimax headset. A 1600p resolution and 130 degree FOV for that sort of price doesn't cut the proverbial mustard, particularly the resolution. If it was 2160p resolution and 130 degree FOV I'd have one sitting on my coffee table on top of my laptop instead of a Rift S. But it wasn't. So I haven't.

But the 8K is twice the price.

 

[thesnowdog]

But the 8K is twice the price.

Good grief. READ MY POSTS.

I'm not saying that I'd buy a Pimax headset for £919, I'm saying that if Valve released a 2.5K or 4K headset with 180 degree FOV or even a 2160p headset with 130 degree FOV for £919 it would be worth paying the money. Valve releasing a headset with only a 1600p resolution and 130 degree FOV is NOT worth the money. Do I REALLY need to draw you a diagram? It's quite simple.

Steam Survey results are now out.

Oculus now have 47.04% of the headsets in the latest survey (I haven't included the DK1 and DK2 for obvious reasons), won't be long before over 50% of them are Oculus headsets after the Quest 2 releases. Pretty impressive.

 

[Atmos]

There isn't one. Read my post again.

I'll make my post clearer if it helps. If I was going to give Valve or anyone else £919 I'd expect the same or similar resolution and FOV that you'd find on a Pimax headset. A 1600p resolution and 130 degree FOV for that sort of price doesn't cut the proverbial mustard, particularly the resolution. If it was 2160p resolution and 130 degree FOV I'd have one sitting on my coffee table on top of my laptop instead of a Rift S. But it wasn't. So I haven't.

But you didn't sign up to the Pimax Kickstarter when they were only £400.

 

[thesnowdog]

But you didn't sign up to the Pimax Kickstarter when they were only £400.

I would NEVER sign up to ANYTHING on Kickstarter that's over £100.

 

[Atmos]

Good grief. READ MY POSTS.

I'm not saying that I'd buy a Pimax headset for £919, I'm saying that if Valve released a 2.5K or 4K headset with 180 degree FOV or even a 2160p headset with 130 degree FOV for £919 it would be worth paying the money. Valve releasing a headset with only a 1600p resolution and 130 degree FOV is NOT worth the money. Do I REALLY need to draw you a diagram? It's quite simple.

Steam Survey results are now out.

Oculus now have 47.04% of the headsets in the latest survey (I haven't included the DK1 and DK2 for obvious reasons), won't be long before over 50% of them are Oculus headsets after the Quest 2 releases. Pretty impressive.

No diagram can make sense of your logic. lol

 

[kenshingintoki]

Actually I don't have paperweights for sensors. I don't have ANY sensors. I gave my OG Rift to a mate of mine when I got my Rift S.

And, as I've mentioned numerous times, I had the cash to get a Valve Index but the resolution and FOV increases weren't big enough for me personally to make the price worth paying. For that sort of money I'd expect Pimax resolution and FOV.

As far as the Quest 2 is concerned I'll primarily be getting one to test my game on unless the PC VR experience is better than the Rift S. I wasn't originally planning on getting one at all, but I've got £82 worth of cash from these survey things and am expecting maybe another 50 or 60 quid before I get fed up doing the things lol So I'll effectively be getting a Quest 2 for £160 or so.

Also I don't remember saying that I'd ditch my headset when a better one comes out, I've always said that I'm happy with my Rift S. As far as I remember I've ALWAYS said that I'd only get another headset if/when Oculus release a headset with the Half Dome features. I'm more than happy with my Rift S at the moment, and as I've said above if I get a Quest 2 I'll primarily be getting it to test my game on unless it offers a better PC VR experience than the Rift S.

I would have been tempted by the G2 but I'm saving up to get a Yaw VR motion simulator next year.

I think that there summarises your 'loyalty' or 'fanboyism' to Oculus.

Its not a bad thing but its good to be honest with these things.

The G2 is an evolution on everything Oculus has ever done in VR from a display to an audio revolution; by large proportions... but still you sit with Oculus.

If Oculus had released the G2, you'd be all over it.

 

[thesnowdog]

There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with my logic. A headset with only a 1600p resolution and 130 degree FOV is NOT worth £919. Since the Index released there have been TWO headsets released with a higher resolution. One is less than a third of the price, the other is two thirds of the price. I don't know what GabeN was thinking when he decided on that resolution. It was only a matter of a short amount of time before that resolution looked outdated.

 

[kenshingintoki]

Actually I don't have paperweights for sensors. I don't have ANY sensors. I gave my OG Rift to a mate of mine when I got my Rift S.

And, as I've mentioned numerous times, I had the cash to get a Valve Index but the resolution and FOV increases weren't big enough for me personally to make the price worth paying. For that sort of money I'd expect Pimax resolution and FOV.

As far as the Quest 2 is concerned I'll primarily be getting one to test my game on unless the PC VR experience is better than the Rift S. I wasn't originally planning on getting one at all, but I've got £82 worth of cash from these survey things and am expecting maybe another 50 or 60 quid before I get fed up doing the things lol So I'll effectively be getting a Quest 2 for £160 or so.

Also I don't remember saying that I'd ditch my headset when a better one comes out, I've always said that I'm happy with my Rift S. As far as I remember I've ALWAYS said that I'd only get another headset if/when Oculus release a headset with the Half Dome features. I'm more than happy with my Rift S at the moment, and as I've said above if I get a Quest 2 I'll primarily be getting it to test my game on unless it offers a better PC VR experience than the Rift S.

I would have been tempted by the G2 but I'm saving up to get a Yaw VR motion simulator next year.

You miss the point. Oculus makes redundant hardware.

CV1 = obsolete and abandonned
Touch generation 1 controllers (the best Occy controllers) = abandonned
Light sensors = abandonned
Oculus go = obsoloete and abandonned
Rift S = obsolete and abandonned
Quest 1 in 12-24 months = absolete and abandonned.

Now we are looking at PCVR = abandonned

Thats quite a bad track record for a VR company.

 

[Atmos]

There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with my logic. A headset with only a 1600p resolution and 130 degree FOV is NOT worth £919. Since the Index released there have been TWO headsets released with a higher resolution. One is less than a third of the price, the other is two thirds of the price. I don't know what GabeN was thinking when he decided on that resolution. It was only a matter of a short amount of time before that resolution looked outdated.

But jeez the Index is only £460.

 

[kenshingintoki]

There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with my logic. A headset with only a 1600p resolution and 130 degree FOV is NOT worth £919. Since the Index released there have been TWO headsets released with a higher resolution. One is less than a third of the price, the other is two thirds of the price. I don't know what GabeN was thinking when he decided on that resolution. It was only a matter of a short amount of time before that resolution looked outdated.

you are manipulating numbers to fit your rhetoric.

the index headset is like £450.

For £919 you are getting
1. Index headset
2. Index controllers (optional if you're in the valve ecosystem)
3. Base stations (which if you'd followed the steamVR ecosystem you'd have)

Excluding base stations, the price is around £650.. close to the G2. Again, its not Valve's fault that you or others (including myself) decided to trust in Oculus and not get base stations and go Vive.


Also the Index headset isn't just 1600p resolution and 130 degree FOV. You are talking absolute nonsense.

The Index headset has compared to the rift s oculus headset:
1. a Physical IPD
2. Lower persistence panels
3. Better blacks
4. Better contrast and colours
5. world class audio compared to the rift s
6. Multiple refresh rate options
7. magnetic face gaskets and glasses slider
8. Vertical FOV is gigantic (yes even better than the very expensive Pimax)
9. Improved horizontal FOV

To summarise, premium fit options and ergonomics, lower persistence panels and a massive increased in refresh rate, best in class LCD colours and blacks, a physical IPD for pixel level sharpness, a revolutionary audio system, a standard-setting vertical FOV and an increased horizontal FOV. If you don't think this is worth the money.. fine.. but please state these features and not dress the index up as less than it is.


The vertical FOV is the sleeping killer feature of the Index headset because it eliminated the toilet paper roll/scuba mask effect of all other consumer grade headsets.

To sum up the index at 1600p and 130 degree FOV makes you look a bit silly and way too biased.

 

[Atmos]

If Oculus had released the G2, you'd be all over it.

That is the truth right there. The G2 was £525 and superior in every way but he's looking to buy the Quest2 with lower resolution, worse audio, FoV and PCVR support over USB.

 

[thesnowdog]

I think that there summarises your 'loyalty' or 'fanboyism' to Oculus.

Its not a bad thing but its good to be honest with these things.

The G2 is an evolution on everything Oculus has ever done in VR from a display to an audio revolution; by large proportions... but still you sit with Oculus.

If Oculus had released the G2, you'd be all over it.

Nothing to do with fanboyism, everything to do with logic. Oculus are too far ahead of everyone else when it comes to software. If Oculus released a 2160p headset tomorrow I'd get it because it would RUN SMOOTHER thanks to the wonders of ASW 2.0. I would have been tempted by the G2 if it had released before the Rift S but I think I'd miss ASW 2.0 and the Oculus environment like Oculus Home and maybe even Horizons coming up too much.

I think @MikeKay1976 was thinking hard before ordering a G2 for the same reason.

 

[thesnowdog]

That is the truth right there. The G2 was £525 and superior in every way but he's looking to buy the Quest2 with lower resolution, worse audio, FoV and PCVR support over USB.

I've already said why I'm getting a Quest. If I wasn't working on a game for the headset I'd be sticking with my Rift S.

 

[kenshingintoki]

Nothing to do with fanboyism, everything to do with logic. Oculus are too far ahead of everyone else when it comes to software. If Oculus released a 2160p headset tomorrow I'd get it because it would RUN SMOOTHER thanks to the wonders of ASW 2.0. I would have been tempted by the G2 if it had released before the Rift S but I think I'd miss ASW 2.0 and the Oculus environment like Oculus Home and maybe even Horizons coming up too much.

I think @MikeKay1976 was thinking hard before ordering a G2 for the same reason.

They simply aren't.

I've used Oculus and I've used steamVR both with Oculus and Valve native headsets and the gap has been bridged.

There are things available in SteamVR which Oculus simply doesn't have or offer.

Oculus's only saving grace is ASW which, for the games I needed it for, it caused issues (e.g. skyrim it showed some artifcats on the peripheral vision).

A couple of years ago, I would agree as Oculus home was amazing but coming from a non-biased user who will jump back to Oculus as soon as they release something high end... outside of ASW 2.0 (which if you have a decent PC, you don't need, and TBH isn't THAT amazing..) no.. Steam are now neck and neck.

Steam has a multitude of different customisation settings Oculus would never give its users access to.

 

[MikeKay1976]

Rift CV1 owner likely jumping ship to G2... No regrets here. For gen1 VR I had the best over all package imo .

I am disappointed Oculus are moving away from the rift not because I feel betrayed, but because I believe if they did make a £600-£900 pcvr device it would be fantastic.

Sadly not to be but that does not change the last 4.5 years of excellent VR from Oculus.
Yes I do think the index is a nice setup..... But having the rift with touch allowed me to swerve the pimax saga, the cosmos and the Vive pro which I am plenty happy about.
I just hope the G2 is not the cosmos all over again..... I don't think it will be ...... But I don't have as much faith in MS inside out tracking than I do with Oculus insight

 

[MikeKay1976]

That is the truth right there. The G2 was £525 and superior in every way but he's looking to buy the Quest2 with lower resolution, worse audio, FoV and PCVR support over USB.

G2 at 525 (so long as MRTV et Al are not full of ....) Was a total bargain....... But you are right.... IF Oculus had announced a VR headset with the same specs as G2 but using touch and insight damn straight I would have been all over it.
I haven't used the windows MR G2 controllers so maybe I will be wrong and will be happy to admit it if I am,.but touch tracks better up close , touch had FAR better battery life (using 1 battery no less), it works with cheap rechargables (I just had to order 8xli ion rechargables and charger for £40 as officially 1.2v batteries are not supported).
And on top of that according even to people raving about the G2, it is really fussy about light levels (even some light bulbs givenitngrief apparently) where as insight (and not saying it is perfect) is less fussy.....

 

[thesnowdog]

Yup, Insight is pretty incredible.

And you don't need ANY lights on with Insight too. Only realised that when I started playing No Man's Sky in daylight and took my headset off a while later to find myself sitting in the dark

Makes sense because the Touch controllers use IR LEDs

If the G2 had released before the Rift S I might have got one, but didn't think it was worth the price to get a second headset when my current one, thanks to supersampling which can get me a similar (but not as good obviously!) IQ.

Like I've said, I'm happy with my Rift S, I'm only considering getting a Quest 2 for development purposes.

 

[Thug]

The lenses are made by valve. This has been stated numerous times by HP.

a quick google would educate you on this:

'HP G2 valve lenses - Google Search'

unless something darastic has changed on the latest version of the G2, Valve are hugely responsible for the audio and lenses.

nothing is 100% certain but if they were to have ditched Valve lens design and started from scratch for the latest revision, it would be shocking and worrying to say the least, since the pre production prototypes got rave reviews.

That link shows lots of old information.
You may not be up to date but they have improved on the lenses, hence the delay to Nov from Sept.
I may have totally missed it but i cant find anywhere that says the NEW updated lenses are made by Valve.
There is only information on 'improvement' to the lenses, which could mean to the existing ones (not sure how they could do that) or to the design and manufacturer.
If they are new lenses (or even redesigned ones) then they clearly aren't the same as those in the Index.

EDIT
Just found the update from the 24th Sept as follows...

A few updates we have made to the product since we first announced Reverb G2:

• We have updated the lenses to reduce the Fresnel ring reflections and improve clarity.
• The menu button on the controllers is now domed so you can distinguish between the Windows and Menu buttons by touch.
• In addition to the full size to mini display port adapter, a USB-C® to USB-A adapter will be included in every box.
• Our Engineers found an opportunity to lower persistence without lowering brightness and this required higher power draw, so the HP Reverb G2 will require the adapter to be plugged into the wall.

 

[kenshingintoki]

That link shows lots of old information.
You may not be up to date but they have improved on the lenses, hence the delay to Nov from Sept.
I may have totally missed it but i cant find anywhere that says the NEW lenses are made by Valve.
There is only information on 'improvement' to the lenses, which could mean to the existing ones (not sure how they could do that) or to the design and manufacturer.
If they are new lenses (or even redesigned ones) then they clearly aren't the same as those in the Index.

No one has said the lenses are the same from the Index. The Index lenses are totally different and work a weird angle to work in the extra FOV with the flaw of letting in glare.

The lenses are made in conjunction with Valve. This is straight from HP's mouth.

Lets see in a months time when they're released if the lenses are from Valve or if HP decided with a few months to go, to revamp and redesign the lenses by themselves.

I'm going to take a wild guess I'll be right and you'll be wrong.

 

[Thug]

No one has said the lenses are the same from the Index. The Index lenses are totally different and work a weird angle to work in the extra FOV with the flaw of letting in glare.

The lenses are made in conjunction with Valve. This is straight from HP's mouth.

Lets see in a months time when they're released if the lenses are from Valve or if HP decided with a few months to go, to revamp and redesign the lenses by themselves.

I'm going to take a wild guess I'll be right and you'll be wrong.

Sorry, but you are wrong.
They changed them as of the 24th Sept.

Latest Update on the HP Reverb G2 Virtual Reality Headset

We are excited to see the positive reaction and strong demand for the HP Reverb G2 virtual reality headset, created in collaboration with industry leaders Valve and Microsoft. The HP Reverb G2 is the world’s highest resolution VR headset among major vendors , delivering cutting-edge optics...

press.hp.com

 

[kenshingintoki]

Sorry, but you are wrong.
They changed them as of the 24th Sept.

Latest Update on the HP Reverb G2 Virtual Reality Headset

We are excited to see the positive reaction and strong demand for the HP Reverb G2 virtual reality headset, created in collaboration with industry leaders Valve and Microsoft. The HP Reverb G2 is the world’s highest resolution VR headset among major vendors , delivering cutting-edge optics...

press.hp.com

We already knew they made change to the lenses.

I do not read anywhere in that announcement that they dumped Valve and used a separately designed lens (I've already read that announcement before).

My quote specifically said
"Lets see in a months time when they're released if the lenses are from Valve or if HP decided with a few months to go, to revamp and redesign the lenses by themselves. ".
No where in that announcement does it state they've dumped Valve. Quite the opposite, they said we can't wait for you to look forward to Valve optics.

 

[kenshingintoki]

After all the testing in our labs and by our VR team at home, these are some of the elements we are most excited about you trying out:

• 2160x2160 per eye panel resolution
• Render resolution and graphics powered by PC GPUs
• Superb Valve optics
• Industry leading audio designed by Valve
• Enhanced ergonomics
• Upcoming VR support for Microsoft Flight Simulator

A few updates we have made to the product since we first announced Reverb G2:

• We have updated the lenses to reduce the Fresnel ring reflections and improve clarity.
• The menu button on the controllers is now domed so you can distinguish between the Windows and Menu buttons by touch.
• In addition to the full size to mini display port adapter, a USB-C® to USB-A adapter will be included in every box.
• Our Engineers found an opportunity to lower persistence without lowering brightness and this required higher power draw, so the HP Reverb G2 will require the adapter to be plugged into the wall.

From the link you posted.

What do you think they mean by superb valve optics if they don't mean the lenses?

Do you not think it makes more sense that they further worked with Valve to refine the optics to reduce reflections and increase clarity rather than trash the lenses and work from scratch? Otherwise why are they excited for users to use superb valve optics?