Oculus's embarassing direction for VR

Atmos

Well-known Member
The G2 seems a little over priced now. I would say £500 tops.

Valve will more than likely drop the Index price in January.
 
No ones going to do that though are they?

I will, unless the Quest 2 blows the Rift S out of the water in terms of IQ. And if it does I'll only be getting the cheaper strap, not the one with the battery in it.

Still not sure if I'm getting one yet though, depends on how many £15 Amazon vouchers I end up getting my hands on in the next few weeks.

I've started doing online surveys with 2 companies, one I've got £35 worth of cash being paid into my PayPal account and the other I've got £47 worth of cash which I can turn into £15 Amazon vouchers for £15.50.

Only takes 10-30 minutes to do a survey and you generally get 25p to 75p for each one you do, with some other ones every now and then giving you more cash. Most I've had is a fiver 😲

Am going to wait until closer to Christmas and see how much cash I have stacked up before I decide whether to get a Quest 2 or not from Amazon. I started doing this on 18th at around 10:30pm and have got £82 so far.

Doesn't take much to do, you can do it on your mobile whilst watching the telly as long as you take care to answer carefully, they have things for control purposes every now and then like choose 'Agree Strongly' for this answer etc.

And as long as you don't earn over a grand in a year the taxman doesn't get his hands on any of it! 😎😁😎

I'll probably get fed up doing it after a couple of months though.

It does give you a chance to see pre-released trailers for upcoming films. I've seen 2 so far - one looked like complete sh*te (I put in the comments that it doesn't matter how hard you work on a trailer, you can't polish a turd 😂😂😂) and the other film looked pretty good. Can't name the films though due to an NDA.

Sorry, I digressed a fair bit there!

Regarding the strap with the battery, can't you just get the £49 strap and use one of those Anker power banks instead?

I'll only be using it to test my game on mainly unless it's an improvement on the Rift S.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
The G2 seems a little over priced now. I would say £500 tops.

Valve will more than likely drop the Index price in January.


So the G2 is over priced.. the Q2 is overpriced.. but the Index isn't?

I'm perplexed how you manage to give a pass to the Index in every single situation and will only address its shortcomings when pressed to but you're happy to trash every other headset.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I will, unless the Quest 2 blows the Rift S out of the water in terms of IQ. And if it does I'll only be getting the cheaper strap, not the one with the battery in it.

Still not sure if I'm getting one yet though, depends on how many £15 Amazon vouchers I end up getting my hands on in the next few weeks.

I've started doing online surveys with 2 companies, one I've got £35 worth of cash being paid into my PayPal account and the other I've got £47 worth of cash which I can turn into £15 Amazon vouchers for £15.50.

Only takes 10-30 minutes to do a survey and you generally get 25p to 75p for each one you do, with some other ones every now and then giving you more cash. Most I've had is a fiver 😲

Am going to wait until closer to Christmas and see how much cash I have stacked up before I decide whether to get a Quest 2 or not from Amazon. I started doing this on 18th at around 10:30pm and have got £82 so far.

Doesn't take much to do, you can do it on your mobile whilst watching the telly as long as you take care to answer carefully, they have things for control purposes every now and then like choose 'Agree Strongly' for this answer etc.

And as long as you don't earn over a grand in a year the taxman doesn't get his hands on any of it! 😎😁😎

I'll probably get fed up doing it after a couple of months though.

It does give you a chance to see pre-released trailers for upcoming films. I've seen 2 so far - one looked like complete sh*te (I put in the comments that it doesn't matter how hard you work on a trailer, you can't polish a turd 😂😂😂) and the other film looked pretty good. Can't name the films though due to an NDA.

Sorry, I digressed a fair bit there!

Regarding the strap with the battery, can't you just get the £49 strap and use one of those Anker power banks instead?

I'll only be using it to test my game on mainly unless it's an improvement on the Rift S.


75p per 30 minutes.. isn't that like £1.50 an hour?
 

Atmos

Well-known Member
Its down to every individual to put a price on FoV, Hz, Knuckles, outside in tracking.

I think once you have BS and Knuckles upgrading the headset at £460 is good value.

G2 is now caught between Index and Quest2. It doesn't have Knuckles or Inside out tracking of the Index or the £299 entry of the Quest2. So G2 is on shaky ground imo at the current price.
 

Thug

Moderator
I think this ends up happening because oculus fanboys decide to try and make the q2 to be better than it is.

In truth each headset at its respective price point has a target audience.
It doesn’t matter what the fanboys think, it’s either a decent HMD or it isn’t.
I don’t need a fanboy or hater to tell me either way.
The reviews show it to be a very capable HMD.

Most people would be happy with the blacks, especially if they knew no better.
The same as people are happy with Ford cars when there are better out there for more money.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
It doesn’t matter what the fanboys think, it’s either a decent HMD or it isn’t.
I don’t need a fanboy or hater to tell me either way.
The reviews show it to be a very capable HMD.

Most people would be happy with the blacks, especially if they knew no better.
The same as people are happy with Ford cars when there are better out there for more money.

Its a decent HMD.
The issue is it gets bashed because oculus fanboys make it out to be a god-like HMD which goes toe to toe with the Index or G2, which it doesn't.
Then G2/Index fanboys then bash the Quest to a lower level than what it is...
and continues the fanboy circle of life where they constantly bash eachother's products.

The blacks are crap though if they're anything like the Rift S's. I had a Rift S exclusively for a while and always thought the blacks were awful. I thought it was due to the LCD panel but when I got the Index, I realised not all VR LCD panels are born equally. if soemones happy with the Rift S blacks, then they'll be happy with Q2 probably.. and best they don't look at any other VR headsets blacks.

But yeah, people have different standards for everything. Some people are happy with a budget TV, some thirst after an OLED.. and some want a gigantic 4k super projector like a JVC NX9.

I have a 77'' OLED.. but I'm not about to bash someone who owens a JVC NX9.. as its a higher end product with an obviously better more impactful experience.

Same would apply if I was a Q2 owner. I wouldn't be little the G2 or Index.. because they're obviously superior.
 
75p per 30 minutes.. isn't that like £1.50 an hour?

Yup, but it's not as if that 30 minutes is dedicated entirely to doing a survey. I'm doing these things whilst I'm watching Netflix etc. So I'm basically getting paid, tax free to watch the telly or Netflix or whatever I'm also doing at the time. :D

You never know we might get the Quest2 S next year. :laugh:

Well to be fair to me, the Quest 2 is the Quest S in everything but name. It's pretty much a Rift S equivalent. So I wasn't ENTIRELY wrong. :cool:

Its a decent HMD.
The issue is it gets bashed because oculus fanboys make it out to be a god-like HMD which goes toe to toe with the Index or G2, which it doesn't.
Then G2/Index fanboys then bash the Quest to a lower level than what it is...
and continues the fanboy circle of life where they constantly bash eachother's products.

The blacks are crap though if they're anything like the Rift S's. I had a Rift S exclusively for a while and always thought the blacks were awful. I thought it was due to the LCD panel but when I got the Index, I realised not all VR LCD panels are born equally. if soemones happy with the Rift S blacks, then they'll be happy with Q2 probably.. and best they don't look at any other VR headsets blacks.

But yeah, people have different standards for everything. Some people are happy with a budget TV, some thirst after an OLED.. and some want a gigantic 4k super projector like a JVC NX9.

I have a 77'' OLED.. but I'm not about to bash someone who owens a JVC NX9.. as its a higher end product with an obviously better more impactful experience.

Same would apply if I was a Q2 owner. I wouldn't be little the G2 or Index.. because they're obviously superior.

Not even I've said that the Quest 2 is a godlike HMD that can go toe to toe with the Index and G2. It does however, when you consider the price, punch well above its weight. Going by plenty of reviews so far it's pretty much comparable to the Index 2 in terms of IQ, and even beats it in terms of SDE and godrays. Sure, there are compression artifacts but those will get reduced given time as they tweak the decompression algorithms.
 

MikeKay1976

Distinguished Member
Its down to every individual to put a price on FoV, Hz, Knuckles, outside in tracking.

I think once you have BS and Knuckles upgrading the headset at £460 is good value.

G2 is now caught between Index and Quest2. It doesn't have Knuckles or Inside out tracking of the Index or the £299 entry of the Quest2. So G2 is on shaky ground imo at the current price.
I think you are the only person I have seen questioning the Q2s value........ And defending index cost whilst calling the G2 which is only 60% on the price takes some real mental gymnastics..... If it were an Olympic sport I think you would get a gold medal.

You can buy a G2 headset only pack as well btw if you want to.

Plenty of reviews for quest say 64gb is fine.... Not sure which I would get but then I would say I am prepared to put more cash into VR than some folk.
The headstrap idea is quite clever imo. It takes up no space to stuff in a travel back (I think plenty will buy quest for media whilst travelling so a strap like G2 or index would be bulky and over engineered.

Also if mum and dad want to buy little Jimmy his 1st VR headset at £299 for xmas... The headstrap at £50 is possibly the perfect gift for grandma and grandad to pick up for him which spreads the cost.

The elite battery headmount is imo a luxury item and not essential.

The link cable is a tough one. I don't think it is a ripoff for what it is but it IS expensive. For Q1 it was over engineered

If the 3rd party USB cables work on Q2 at 90hz then it's a non issue . I am a little concerned that those cheaper cables which were ok for Q1 MAY struggle which would explain why Oculus really went to town on their cable but it is too soon to tell yet.
 
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kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I think you are the only person I have seen questioning the Q2s value........ And defending index cost whilst calling the G2 which is only 60% on the price takes some real mental gymnastics..... If it were an Olympic sport I think you would get a gold medal.

You can buy a G2 headset only pack as well btw if you want to.


You have to remember:
Atmos = Valve fanboy
Snowdog = Oculus fanboy




They might dress up their opinions as something kind of neutral but they both stand firmly in their respective camps.

Snowdog for example has historically always said he'll ditch his Rift S whenever a better headset comes out which provides the same value. The G2 comes around, he doesn't talk about upgrading but the inferior Q2, he is interested in. Actions speak louder than words. The simple fact it, he'll only buy another VR headset when Oculus releases one.

Similarly Atmos will hate Oculus for anything they do and blames them for the lack of VR progress. Valve on the otherhand with their one VR HMD and their one VR game, are the saviours and gods of VR. This is despite releasing an Index headset and controllers with multiple fundamental flaws and 18 months in, still not reducing the price of the package.



I'm not even trying to take the mick. Its nearly absolute fact at this point and moment in time so always take what they post with a pinch of salt.

I on the otherhand, just strive to have the best VR can offer and will be a mercenary and backstab either Oculus, Valve or Sony at any moment in time because I don't feel any form of loyalty to either company.
 

Atmos

Well-known Member
If StarVR One was high res and cost less than £1000 I’d go and buy that so how am I a Valve fanboy?

My path to VR started with Oculus DK2, then Vive, Pimax and now Valve. How am I an Valve fanboy when every time I buy a new headset it’s been from a different manufacturer?

No, I buy what I consider to be the best headset of its time. The Index package is still the best VR experience you can have in 2020.

The only company I see beating the Index in 2021 is Valve with the Index 2.0.

For me you either go for specs or you go for price. The G2 and Quest2 in no mans land and don’t satisfy either. G2 is not cheap and doesn’t come with outside out tracking or Knuckles. Quest2 once you add the memory and strap and cable isn’t that cheap and doesn’t have the FoV or inside out tracking or Knuckles.

Call me a fanboy if you like but I’m willing to sacrifice some resolution and a bit of glare which I didn’t see any on Squadrons and wait for Index2 which should be £460. A bargain.

I’m not trying to put people off buying Oculus or HP. I just point out why Index costs more. Because you get more.
 
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kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
So you make an excuse for the index massive glare disadvantage and vertical sde which is so bad we need to have a setting called column correction?

when is this index 2 hmd coming? Given valves history of dropping hardware and releasing things in their own time..
 

Atmos

Well-known Member
Glare is bad in high contrast scenes which are rare in games.

Never seen any vertical SDE and I switch column correction off.

There’s no VR package that beats Index so who knows when Index 2 will come. But I’m 90% sure Valve will release a new headset in 2021.
 

Atmos

Well-known Member
I’ve used my mates Quest and while the clarity was better I could certainly see the smaller FoV.

I like the Quest as a stand-alone but I’d never use one for PCVR.
 

Atmos

Well-known Member
Let’s not forget where the G2 lenses are coming from - Valve. So they have the technology to eliminate glare. I’m sure they have the resources to source the best panels and eliminate SDE. They have the software team to implement wider FOV.

So overall I have confidence in Valve. Why shouldn’t I?
 

MikeKay1976

Distinguished Member
If quest 2 is not cheap at £299 just what price do you expect Oculus to sell it for? In the past you have accused Oculus of killing VR because they sell at cost (or less than) something other manufacturers can't do. you said that was unfair and wrong.

Now you are suggedting Oculus are over charging for Q2 and it should be cheaper .

Can't you see how all over the place your arguments are.... I don't like Facebook ...... I personally am disappointed that they don't offer a higher end pcvr headset to go alongside quest 2..
But it is clear to me no matter what Oculus do it will be wrong in your eyes.
Valve are just as bad for different reasons.
Lighthouse base stations 2.0 were teased as being cheaper than 1.0..... so some waited... And waited and then look at the price.

They refused to admit there was a design issue with knuckles and only replaced faulty units out if forced


Years ago they promised us 3 dedicated VR titles funded by them. Not a huge amount to expect given who they are and the over £900 VR package they sell. So far we got 1 and I have no idea what is going on with the others.
Valve periodically update their Ts and C's....... Sure you can refuse them, and they remove your entire account with potentially £1000s of software on
Sony equally are no better with their walled garden than Oculus and yet you champion Sony but lambast Oculus.
To me they are all mega corporations trying to get our money... Non worthy of our loyalty

BUT regardless of their motivations at lease with Facebook/Oculus we have a sackful of decent be titles which would not exist without their funding and also without Oculus VR would be no where near as popular as it is.
Ask my mum what a valve index is she would have a clue. Ask her what an Oculus is and........... Well TBH she may still not have a clue (bad example then) BUT should would be far more likely to know that Oculus rift/ quest is VR than valve index
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Glare is bad in high contrast scenes which are rare in games.

Never seen any vertical SDE and I switch column correction off.

There’s no VR package that beats Index so who knows when Index 2 will come. But I’m 90% sure Valve will release a new headset in 2021.

nah the glare is present everywhere mate.. ur underplaying a flaw of the index

maybe ur not sensitive to it but there is a literal setting on the index for the vertical sde so its a common enough issue they had to include a software solution to it
 

Thug

Moderator
Its a decent HMD.
The issue is it gets bashed because oculus fanboys make it out to be a god-like HMD which goes toe to toe with the Index or G2, which it doesn't.
Then G2/Index fanboys then bash the Quest to a lower level than what it is...
and continues the fanboy circle of life where they constantly bash eachother's products.

The blacks are crap though if they're anything like the Rift S's. I had a Rift S exclusively for a while and always thought the blacks were awful. I thought it was due to the LCD panel but when I got the Index, I realised not all VR LCD panels are born equally. if soemones happy with the Rift S blacks, then they'll be happy with Q2 probably.. and best they don't look at any other VR headsets blacks.

But yeah, people have different standards for everything. Some people are happy with a budget TV, some thirst after an OLED.. and some want a gigantic 4k super projector like a JVC NX9.

I have a 77'' OLED.. but I'm not about to bash someone who owens a JVC NX9.. as its a higher end product with an obviously better more impactful experience.

Same would apply if I was a Q2 owner. I wouldn't be little the G2 or Index.. because they're obviously superior.
Its a decent HMD.
The issue is it gets bashed because oculus fanboys make it out to be a god-like HMD which goes toe to toe with the Index or G2, which it doesn't.
Then G2/Index fanboys then bash the Quest to a lower level than what it is...
and continues the fanboy circle of life where they constantly bash eachother's products.

The blacks are crap though if they're anything like the Rift S's. I had a Rift S exclusively for a while and always thought the blacks were awful. I thought it was due to the LCD panel but when I got the Index, I realised not all VR LCD panels are born equally. if soemones happy with the Rift S blacks, then they'll be happy with Q2 probably.. and best they don't look at any other VR headsets blacks.

But yeah, people have different standards for everything. Some people are happy with a budget TV, some thirst after an OLED.. and some want a gigantic 4k super projector like a JVC NX9.

I have a 77'' OLED.. but I'm not about to bash someone who owens a JVC NX9.. as its a higher end product with an obviously better more impactful experience.

Same would apply if I was a Q2 owner. I wouldn't be little the G2 or Index.. because they're obviously superior.
Show me one person on AVF that makes the Q2 a god-like experience.
Let’s not forget where the G2 lenses are coming from - Valve. So they have the technology to eliminate glare. I’m sure they have the resources to source the best panels and eliminate SDE. They have the software team to implement wider FOV.

So overall I have confidence in Valve. Why shouldn’t I?
Is it still for certain that the new lenses are going to be Valve lenses?
The recent delays are due to changes in the lens but I can’t remember seeing if they were still Valve or not.
 
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kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Show me one person on AVF that makes teh Q2 a

Is it still for certain that the new lenses are going to be Valve lenses?
The recent delays are due to changes in the lens but I can’t remember seeing if they were still Valve or not.

The lenses are made by valve. This has been stated numerous times by HP.

a quick google would educate you on this:

'HP G2 valve lenses - Google Search'

unless something darastic has changed on the latest version of the G2, Valve are hugely responsible for the audio and lenses.

nothing is 100% certain but if they were to have ditched Valve lens design and started from scratch for the latest revision, it would be shocking and worrying to say the least, since the pre production prototypes got rave reviews.
 

Atmos

Well-known Member
Everyone has different priorities when it comes to VR. My priorities are FoV. Tracking, Knuckkes. SteamVR.

My mate prioritises ease of use and cost.

So I have the Index and he has the Quest. Who’s right and who’s wrong? Well there is no right and there is no wrong.

Quest2 is not the right choice for high end PCVR.

Valve have delivered the best tracking, the best controllers, the best lenses (in the G2). the best audio, the best VR game.

Steam is delivering the biggest and best games. Squadrons being the latest. Then we have Microsoft 2020 coming soon. Even MoH is now coming to Steam. This is how I imagined Steam to become. Not reliant on one company. It’s down to all companies to bring VR titles to the table.

Oculus are dead when it comes to PCVR and some people need to get real and admit it.

Oculus have the best stand-alone at a great introductory price but add on all the extras and price is nearing the G2 which offers much better audio and resolution.

So I’m happy with the way VR has turned out. I feel vindicated in my choices.

If I was an Oculus supporter I would feel sad and disappointed right now. Disillusioned that Facebook promised so much with the Halfdome prototype only to end the Rift line all together.

So maybe I find it hard to sympathise with people who side with the dark side.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Everyone has different priorities when it comes to VR. My priorities are FoV. Tracking, Knuckkes. SteamVR.

My mate prioritises easy of use and cost.

So I have the Index and he has the Quest. Who’s right and who’s wrong? Well there is no right and there is no wrong.

Quest2 is not the right choice for high end PCVR.

Valve have delivered the best tracking, the best controllers, the best lenses (in the G2). the best audio, the best VR game.

Steam is delivering the biggest and best games. Squadrons being the latest. Then we have Microsoft 2020 coming soon. Even MoH is now coming to Steam. This is how I imagined Steam to become. Not reliant on one company. It’s down to all companies to bring VR titles to the table.

Oculus are dead when it comes to PCVR and some people need to get real and admit it.

Oculus have the best stand-alone at a great introductory price but add on all the extras and price is nearing the G2 which offers much better audio and resolution.

So I’m happy with the way VR has turned out. I feel vindicated in my choices.

If I was an Oculus supporter I would feel sad and disappointed right now. Disillusioned that Facebook promised so much with the Halfdome prototype only to end the Rift line all together.

So maybe I find it hard to sympathise with people who side with the dark side.


Agreed. You're totally vindicated in your choices.

The fact snowdog cries about how expensive the Index is.. is partly his own fault.

He chose the Oculus route and had paper weights for sensors. Those who chose the steamVR route, had the option to keep their base station 1.0s (and wands) and upgrade when they wanted to.


For reference, I was a CV1 owner and decided to jump ship. I'm glad I didn't stick with the Rift S as thats now become another Oculus branded paperweight.
 

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