NTSC conversion to PAL

W

wright171203

Guest
Hi all,

New to the forum. I need a few answers about Plasma TV’s. Firstly I have an opportunity to buy a Panasonic TH-50PX20U 50 inch plasma or similar in the USA. Because of my job, I am allowed to ship up to 500lbs to the US and back to Ireland. I would like to make use of this free shipping and bring back this TV. The obvious reason is the price difference, about 2500euro. The problem again is obvious NTSC system for the US market. Is there an easy fix for this, i.e. conversion to PAL? I will probably be using a skybox of some description and a good DVD player with home cinema sound.
Second problem is if I get over the first one is, I would like to have my DVD/home cinema system maybe 20 meters away from the TV. Basically when you look up at the TV all you see is the TV, no wires and nothing underneath. I have the advantage of building our new house very soon and will be able to put in any wiring configuration I want. Ideally I would like to have all the media playing equipment in a corner unit away from the TV. So my question is where can I get cables long enough to go between the TV and media centre and what type of cables am I going to need.

Thanks,

Mike.
 

gizlaroc

Well-known Member
Why not get the 50PHD8UK from the States, even cheaper and being a panel only the only thing you have to worry about is the 110V, everything else is the same on the european and us models.
Ask Gussie for the lastest pricing, he seems to know the best price in every country, in fact every city in the world! ;)

Will you get away with import duty and tax? If not you really must weigh up the real savings and the lack of any warranty at all.
 

gizlaroc

Well-known Member
Just to make myself clearer regarding the PHD8 vs PX20U, you will only be able to use it as a monitor, the tuner will be redundant, so you may as well just buy the monitor and whatever input boards you need for it. The PHD8 also give you alot more control over the picture than the PX20U does, and once set up properly gives a better overall image because of this.
 

acrmorris

Standard Member
Am I just being thick, or is there a reason that all display devices couldn't be the same these days? The last 5 tv/displays I'v bought have all been PAL but NTSC compatible. If they can decode both, where's the problem :confused:
 

Dan L

Active Member
I don't think native NTSC TVs can do PAL.
 

acrmorris

Standard Member
Thanks danluton. That sounds logical. Next stupid question - Does HD come in an American and European format? I think PAL and NTSC are just broadcasting standards so based on your answer, NTSC has the lower line count. Will the same apply to HD, or are the standards not yet set in stone?
 
W

wright171203

Guest
Hi,
Thanks for the replies... Just had a look at the Panasonic 50PHD8UK. It seems to resolve the NTSC/Pal problem. The 110v should not be a problem. Once I get it I need to source a good sound system to give me the whole home cinema experience. I need to do some more research and bring myself up to speed on the different ways of connecting the sound system to the TV. As I said I want to keep all the media equipment and sound system in a corner away from the TV. I need to figure out what cables I need, how long and where to get them. Any recommendations on a home cinema sound system? Something in the middle price range... I am a believer in you get what you pay for.

Thanks again,

Mike.
 

Dan L

Active Member
acrmorris said:
Thanks danluton. That sounds logical. Next stupid question - Does HD come in an American and European format? I think PAL and NTSC are just broadcasting standards so based on your answer, NTSC has the lower line count. Will the same apply to HD, or are the standards not yet set in stone?
No, from what I understand HD is set resolutions, 1280x720, 1920x1080...there are no variations in this, not sure about framerates etc though, they might be different...but my knowledge is not extensive so I could be talking a load of arse.
 

Welwynnick

Well-known Member
It's not as simple as PAL vs NTSC.

If you have a monitor, you just take VGA or HDMI and display an image. The differences between PAL & NTSC are largely down to transmission and recording.

Once you are at the digital / component / RGB level, there is only one difference remaining, and it is perhaps the most important of the lot. PAL runs at 50Hz and NTSC runs at 60 Hz.

There is no getting away from that difference entirely. Processors and convertors can frame rate convert, but you are never left with clean motion. If you want to bring something back from the US, then it needs to accept and display both 50Hz and 60Hz video. The lack of PAL tuner in the US TV is inconsequential.

Plasmas are easy to break in shipping, too. They must be shipped upright at all times, and be well insured. Good luck.

Nick
 

10bii

Banned
NTSC is unrelated to HDTV in America. Our TVs have ATSC tuners to recieve OTA HDTV. Many also have cable card slots for recieving digital cable without a set top box.

If you can get the TV to work at 50hz then there should be no barrier to you using it in the UK. You would simply use it as a monitor bypassing the built-in ATSC tuner.
 

gizlaroc

Well-known Member
Problem is I don't know if anyone has said whether the TV plays 50Hz at 50Hz or comverts it back to 60hz?
We know that the PHD8 plays 50 at 50 so no nasty judder.
 

Dan L

Active Member
If it supports 50hz refresh then it will display at 50hz.
 

Dan L

Active Member
gizlaroc said:
Are you sure? Not all do.
Really? So that's like saying "yeah, the TV accepts a 50Hz signal but it is converted to 60hz" - that makes no sense to me. If a TV can handle 50hz then it should display it, if it converts to 60hz then theres absolutely no point in supporting it, surely?
 

gizlaroc

Well-known Member
Yeah there is a point, most digital displays convert to the internal frame rate of the set and you get an image. Some can not accpet the frequency at all. Obviously the first scenario is prefered.
However better than that is a screen that does not convert back to the screens internal framerate, therefore no judder.
 

gizlaroc

Well-known Member
The 50PHD8xx is the same the world over apart from the power supplies, you will need to feed it 110v/50. So you will need a hefty transformer, and having a good clean power supply makes a big impact on pic quality, so make sure you buy a good one.

I can't see it is worth the hassle myself, you can get that screen here for around £2700, a stepdown may end up cossting you £200 and you have the hassle of getting it back in one piece.
 
W

wright171203

Guest
Hi again,

Having looked around and taking into account the shipping hassle - will it survive and stay upright??? The power supply issue 110v V 240v and the Hz issues, I might opt for this model. Panasonic TH-50PHD7BS available in the UK for £2889 and possibly cheaper after Xmas. Will someone please have a look at the spec of this tv and tell me that it has everything I am going to need for the foreseeable future. Try this link...
http://www.cvsmedia.co.uk/shop/product_info.php?products_id=2579
Again any advice would be great. Also this tv should work fine in Ireland right??? I know there used to be an issue years with UK tv's not working in Ireland but that’s all gone?????
Thanks,
Michael.
 

MAW

Banned
Well, Dan, Yours does exactly that! NEC and Pioneer too, though not to 60Hz, and I think quite a few of the SKD cheapies are fixed at 60Hz.
 

gizlaroc

Well-known Member
Forgot to say, the PHD7 will not do HD over hdmi at 50Hz, you will need a little black box to get round that, just buy one from one of the guys on here and know you are set to go.
 

Dan L

Active Member
MAW said:
Well, Dan, Yours does exactly that! NEC and Pioneer too, though not to 60Hz, and I think quite a few of the SKD cheapies are fixed at 60Hz.
Hmm, so how come when I set my refresh rate to 50hz the TV reports it as 50hz? And how come I can quite clearly see the screen flickering at 50hz and less so when I set to 60hz?
 

MAW

Banned
Dunno mate. Of course it will tell you the input is 50Hz. Anyway, let's not start a fight over it, suffice to say it is common, lots do.
 

gizlaroc

Well-known Member
On my NEC it uses to flicker when going between 50 and 60hz, it has to lock onto a new signal, and it used to say 50Hz as the signal but it was not 50Hz at all, not sure if it was 60 or 75hz but the motion was not as smooth as a crt. What happnes when you watch credits that scroll horizontally across the screen, are they smooth like a 50Hz tv or not? Look at the ticker tape on Sky Sports News, that should be absolutely smooth as a babies bum!
 

Dan L

Active Member
MAW said:
Dunno mate. Of course it will tell you the input is 50Hz. Anyway, let's not start a fight over it, suffice to say it is common, lots do.
No no, not trying to start a fight mate ;)

Just trying to comprehend what you are saying really...I mean, regardless of the TV reporting the refresh rate, I can visibly see the difference between a 50hz and 60hz refresh rate when forced via my PC. The other thing is, the TV feed from SKY would not display correctly through the PC (or directly from the box to the TV) if the TV was changing the frequency, surely?

I'd never disrespect your knowledge, christ you must know an arse load than I do, just trying to understand... :rolleyes:
 

MAW

Banned
No offence is taken by me, ever, except for folks who accuse me of lying for personal finacial gain! Does your screen accept a 50Hz PC input? I'm surprised. Ah, at 1080i it does! On Hitachis own web site, all info on ALIS technology only ever refers to a 30Hz clock. I have pressed technical staff on this, and they also say the same. There must be one helluva FRC chipset in there, if this is correct, but I do see what amounts to judder on all Hitachis I've seen. You might percieve this as flicker, I don't know. The ultimate example of this problem is displayed by a Pioneer XDE on PC input. They accept only 60Hz PC signals on VGA, run internally at 56.25, so an almoghty mess is what you get if you try PAL video on VGA.... That's why PC users who are misguided enough to buy an XDE (Even I love the shiny black bezel) end up pratting about with HDMI, at least theres only 1 FRC going on. Internal clocks are common. With an NEC you have to go into the service menu to switch off 60Hz, and of course turn it back on for R1 DVDs. Pioneer MXEs have a setting for HC diplay use which can do suitable internal clock for both NTSC and PAL, Panasonic simply set the internal clock the same as external frame rate. Lazy, but it works. That's also why some people percieve flicker on PWD panels with PAL. The PHDs work differently, process each pixel twice or something, ask a real expert. I just set the damn things up, not design them!
 

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