NTL capping broadband service - XBL will suffer

Discussion in 'Networking & NAS' started by monkeyleader, Feb 10, 2003.

  1. monkeyleader

    monkeyleader
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    Hey,

    Just read the following on the bbc website - Im disgusted, who the heck do NTL think they are. Im a heavy user and quite regulary download over 1gb in a day, not just files, but streaming media content - I then started thinking about my xbl connection, which I remember reading used 3mb a minute .. a quick blast on the calculator showed that if NTL pull this off they will limit my xbl gaming sessions to 5hours 33 minutes .. pi**ed right off now - first thing tomorrow morning an email to NTL, and also one to Microsoft - with the service about to go live in March this is the last thing they want ...

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2740621.stm

    not happy :mad: :mad: :mad:
     
  2. -Jay-

    -Jay-
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    Is that 5 hours gaming a day ?
     
  3. monkeyleader

    monkeyleader
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    yup ... madness .. i cant believe it ...
     
  4. -Jay-

    -Jay-
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  5. monkeyleader

    monkeyleader
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    i really dont know - but first thing tomorrow morning its on the phone to ntl and COMPLAIN !!!!
     
  6. njiri

    njiri
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    'Er ahem............................... if you can get through that is.
    Write 'em a letter as well.
     
  7. -Jay-

    -Jay-
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    I will be doing the same, because if i don't get my fix of Ghost recon i'm going to kill someone from ntl :suicide: :laugh:
    I only live 10 mins away from there call centre.
     
  8. monkeyleader

    monkeyleader
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  9. -Jay-

    -Jay-
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    Hey i hope you don't think i'm messing, you'll see it on the news crazy liverpool fan kills ntl owner. because he capped his broadband use :laugh:

    Hey 600 posts:rolleyes:
     
  10. Sinzer

    Sinzer
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    I think you may want to recalculate that :p

    3Meg a minute is 50Kb/sec (~400kb/sec), that is nearly maxing your download rate (if you have a 512kb/sec connection). Considering that if I play CS for over an hour, I may only transmit 3 meg total, I think your sums are a little out.

    There is no current game that would require that bandwidth. 3meg an hour I could understand.

    TBH unless you are p2p'ing all day, there is very little way you will go over 1 gig a day, not for home use anyway.
     
  11. dannywonderful

    dannywonderful
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    Some guy over on The DVD Forums wrote an e-mail to NTL and got this reply:

    Dear Sir,

    I will be posting an update out within a day or so. I am sorry for the manner and way this has happened. I learnt of it on Saturday morning and have been managing it since. Our problems is that there are a few users, under 1% of our total, that are setting up such heavy usage patterns that it is affecting the quality of our other 550,000 customers. You may not notice
    it, but it is coming through in different localities. We have had a lot of feedback on having the usage level tiered and we are going to take that into account.

    You need not worry. There is no daily cap to speak of, our goal is to manage the customers who are using the service for consistant and prolonged periods of time especially around peak hours. This can mean that a few have set up mini-data centres from which large-scale file sharing is taking place. What we are thinking of is customers that exceed a threshold amount (like 1Gigabyte) for more than 3 days in a 14 day period, or something like that.

    Further clarity will follow, but we truly value your custom and hope that your fears of restricted service fall away -- our typical customer uses 20X less capacity than the recommended usage level (and even that level will not mean you are disconnected or service stopped).

    Many Thanks,

    Aizad Hussain

    It looks like we should all sit tight and see what happens. There's that many people saying they'd downgrade, or cancel their NTL connection, that I think it'd be commercial suicide for them to implement this.
     
  12. mandlebrot

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    Please don't just sit tight go to Watchdog and report your concerns, that way we will get them on board and ntl are more likely to sit up and take notice;)
     
  13. Sinzer

    Sinzer
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    Umm, read the message. Roughly 1% of the customer userbase reaches this requirement.

    Essentially, they are doing this to provide a better service to those users who do not hog bandwidth all day. Also, it is used to prevent some users from removing caps off their limiters. It can be a highly annoying to have a person on your node who has decapped their kit to allow it to run at 9megabits (this used to happen on Telewest not sure about NTL). I am not a big supporter of cable companies, god knows I have had some amazing hassle off them. However, to complain you cannot download a gig a day is a bit over the top. There is no way currently you could justify that kind of bandwidth unless you a) run a commercial site, which is in breach of your AUP b) You sit downloading p2p all day, which is likely not going to be containing much legal material c) Enjoyed downloading the same software day in day out.

    What they are trying to get rid of is those users who have their connection constantly running at major capacities, which in turn messes up the contention ratios for the rest of the users connected to that router.
     
  14. monkeyleader

    monkeyleader
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    look we are loosing the whole point of this argument.. broadband is the future, and lets not get stuck thinking about computers and gaming - (hell thats important and all that) - but content delivery, video on demand, networked homes, blah blah blah - we need the service and the bandwidth and if NTL arnt willing to provide it then Ill move onto someone else who is ..

    monkey
     
  15. mandlebrot

    mandlebrot
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    Sinzer: I think you are missing the point. They sold us an always-on 24/7 unlimited connection and now they are trying to give limits which most standard users could quite easily go over by doing the very stuff they say BB is great for like streaming high quality video/audio, downloading large files like game demos/updates which can be large like say 300 MB or more (oh by the way NTL think large software programs are only 10 MB) and there are lots of other legal ways to eat up that limit. I'm not saying that the standard user would use over the limit every day but NTL are saying they will complain to you if you go over the limit 3 days out of 14 days. They are also saying (if you do the maths) that a 1 Mbit user can only use his/her connection at full speed for about 2hrs 20 mins per day and then thats it absolutly no more bandwidth/connection to be used again that day and that would include just browsing or emailing. For 600 Kbit users that would only be about 4 hrs usage per day. So lets see we've been sold an unlimited 24/7 service that we can only use roughly for 10% of the time for 1 Mbit or 20% for 600Kbit users. Now the very fact that they are setting limits on an unlimited account is way out of order and a breach of contract.

    Now do you still think people should not complain?
     
  16. Dom H

    Dom H
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    p2p is entirely to blame for things like this.
     
  17. Sinzer

    Sinzer
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    The only reason why I say not to get your knickers in a twist, is that I am a heavy Internet user and I do not reach those limits.

    1 gig a day is a hell of a lot to download and I would be hard pushed to come up with one major game patch of 100megs, then streaming 200 meg of video, then downloading a cd of 700 meg every day.

    That is what it equates to.
     
  18. monkeyleader

    monkeyleader
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    STOP SAYING DOWNLOADS !!!!!

    content delivery is what will be hit by this - and perhaps not today, or tomorrow, but in the next few months this is going to be BIG buiness - I want to be part of that business, but obviously not with NTL

    Oh and by the way ran a few scripts on my linux box last nite to track traffic flow

    - didnt play any games (shame on me)
    - didnt download any new music (thats a rare thing)
    - downloaded 2 game demos
    - streamed music for about 4 hours (we had visitors over and it was good to stream it to the room downstairs while we drank)
    - watched the news updates from cnn for about an hour

    at the end of the evening had an sms output from my script saying my usage for the previous 6 hours was 680mb

    and thats not even me blasting the link, what happens when I wanna do all that +

    - have a LAN party (happens at least once a month, and usually lasts the course of a weekend)
    - download music (normally an everyday occurance)
    - video conferencing with my family (Im Irish, live in Cambridge, all my family back home in Ireland, regulary VC with them using netmeeting)
    - XBOX, PS2, PC online game (usually an everyday occurance)
    - not to mention actually doing some work from home which could mean transferring files frmo the office and home

    we have not even started to talk about content on demand, online ordering of games (24 hour rental ) etc etc ..

    1gb per day .. easy - and this is all without hitting peer to peer (music was from paid sources)

    monkey
     
  19. kennydies

    kennydies
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    Does anyone know if we can legally cancel our contracts. I only connected with NTL at the beginning of January and may be moving next month. I could use this as a valid excuse to cancel my contract and go onto an uncapped ISP.
     
  20. -Jay-

    -Jay-
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    KENNYdies

    I'd give it a go, because they are in breach of contract.
    When you signed up, it was for unlimited surf time.
    But that is not the case now, so you have the right to cancel the contract.
     
  21. 123nitro

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    I think i`m going to change to BT does anyone know a reason why not to?
     
  22. Sinzer

    Sinzer
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    So the 1 gig cap includes for uploads as well then? I assumed it was for downloading only not all traffic.

    Content delivery is downloading, anything you receive to your PC over your cable modem has been downloaded. When you video conference you download a feed (as well as upload), when you stream you are downloading a feed. That is why I use that terminology.

    As for streaming the music, I assume you used an internet radio station? Not streaming mp3's from one PC to another?

    As you say you want to do work on it, if you look at your AUP then working over your cable connection is forbidden, hence you are already in breach. You should buy a business account for that. Downloading new music, I assume this is public domain legal music? Not illegal p2p mp3's?

    Netmeeting could be bandwidth intensive depending on your rates.

    LAN party what difference will that make? Unless you are all running through your net connection to a public server, in which case the throughput will be negligible, likely around a few meg an hour per person if that.

    I understand you are angry about a change to your contract, however you signed a contract, which a) allowed this change and b) says that you are not allowed to use the connection for work purposes or receiving/distributing illegal files.

    I am being a bit of devil's advocate, I do not really agree with what NTL have done, but I do not see the reason for getting so angry about it, when in reality knowing the incompetency of the telecoms firms, it will likely never be enforced except on a few greedy users.

    Storm in a teacup.
     
  23. HMHB

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    The BT 1Mb connection has the same limit of 1GB and has always been sold as that. The only way to get a home connection on BT of 1Mb is through the "no frills" option
     
  24. monkeyleader

    monkeyleader
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    okay i admit it - Im gutted that Im limited to 1gb of pR0n a day ;)
     
  25. HMHB

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    Get it in DIVX format - you get much more bangs for your byte :D
     
  26. jag

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  27. Bob Todd

    Bob Todd
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    this statement by ntl makes the 1megabit connection a stupid option, and its also bollards as well more then 1 percent of NTL customer's download more then 1 gig a day.

    now if NTL said 5 percent I wouldnt disagree.
     

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