Now here is an interesting car, the BMW i8

apolloa

Distinguished Member
What do you make of it? It's the future of BMW's I guess, I'm not sure myself?

 
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mikeburns

Active Member
Isn't it either in production or going to be?
 

mjn

Distinguished Member
Nice, but at 100k, not for me.
 

EndlessWaves

Distinguished Member
I didn't watch the video, but from what I've read elsewhere it's not a particularly exciting. The technical changes are inevitable (lighter materials etc.), the styling is different but not particularly good and being a big executive/sports car it doesn't show off it's ergonomics or use of space.

Show me an i5 estate and I'll be interested to see what they're doing.
 

davepuma

Distinguished Member
The idea is good and like it or not, it is the future. However it's pig ugly and expensive but BMW aren't daft. It exists for a reason and it looks like they have got in there first. The P1 and 918 are fantastic looking and technologically advanced machinery but what is the point in the extra horsepower if you only get a few minutes of it?
 

apolloa

Distinguished Member
No concept car, this is the production car you can buy:

BMW i8: Information

You can configure your i8 on their site. I think it's a tad expensive, but it does offer decent performance and I guess is pretty high tech.
I think that i3 looks even more daft myself :eek: yeah can't wait to see them on the roads..

He states in the video the looks have been designed by the wind tunnel for maximum CD so better MPG, I do hope future BMW's don't all end up looking like this then?
 

gangzoom

Well-known Member
£100K+, only seats 2+2, only 360bhp, real world 24mpg (As tested by Top Gear Magazine), 15 mile EV range only....The only thing BMW has achieved by spending ££££ developing the i8 is to demonstrate hybrid technology is pointless.

If you have £100K to spend on an EV/Hybrid car it would have to be a maxed out Tesla S. 416bhp, real world EV range of nearly 300 miles, seats 5 people + luggage, <£10 to recharge, and it will out accelerate an F10 M5 to 60mph....Not entirely sure how am going to afford one just yet, but a Tesla S (likely the 360bhp model) will be my next car :).
 
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Dean

Well-known Member
24 mpg?? That's ridiculous for a hybrid car, I get that from my Zed! Not interested in hybrids one bit really, it's just not there yet for me. Maybe in 5 years the affordable ones will be worth it.
 

gangzoom

Well-known Member
Hybrids are just pointless, it makes no sense to have to completely different power sources in the car, and given most hybrids have a tiny EV range they essentially become 'normal' petrol cars as soon as you have discharged the small battery.

Tesla have shown full electric cars are viable, clearly they are not aimed at the mass market given even the cheapest 306bhp model starts at £45k, but compared to the likes of a XJ/7 series/S class/A8 they are well priced.

I cannot wait till I can afford something like a Tesla. 100% torque at 0 rpm, and essentially no fuel costs....Bring it on :D
 

Dean

Well-known Member
Tesla electric cars do look more promising but I still have a couple of gripes. Firstly while it's fast in a straight line don't they weigh a couple of tonnes due to all the batteries? That is going to affect handling on the twisty stuff and I love a nimble car. Secondly, call me old fashioned, but you can't beat the sound of a proper V6/V8 petrol engine. It's one of the things I love about my current car and would gladly pay more at the pumps for that thrilling sound.

Apparently the next Nissan GTR is rumoured to be a hybrid, I wonder how that would turn out?
 

Frostytouch

Active Member
I've driven a Tesla S with the high output pack, it is absolutely awesome in terms straight line performance. As someone said earlier the huge and instant hit of torque gives it amazing acceleration, it will do 0 to 60 in something like 4.2 seconds.

The weight of the battery pack though is always felt and although grip is high, it is too wide and too heavy to handle on UK roads. In terms of fit and finish it is miles behind and M5 or Jag XFRS.

Personally I think the i8 looks great and although I haven't seen the Top Gear review, I imagine there will be some amazing developments that will come through from BMWs investment.
 

gangzoom

Well-known Member
I haven't booked a test drive yet with Tesla, because knowing what am like with spontaneous buys theres a high chance if I test drive one and like it I'll end up buying one on finance :eek:.

How does it compare interms of handling to a F10 M5, on paper the M5 weights 1900Kg, the Tesla 2100kg which I thought isn't that much difference, and Evo gave it 4.5 stars which means it cannot handle that badly.

Fit and finish am not bothered about, I'm just as happy with the trim in our Honda Civic compared to the 335.
 

Dean

Well-known Member
I remember seeing a TV review (can't remember which one) and it struggled on track, M5 I think would be better. It's also to do with the weight distribution of all those heavy batteries as well as the ultimate weight of the vehicle.

However saying that this isn't the type of car you would normally take on a track anyway, it's an alternative to the 5 or even 7 series BMW. Most of the reviews seem fairly positive, just remember it is a big and heavy car (weighing about the same as a Rolls Royce!)
 
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EndlessWaves

Distinguished Member
Hybrids are just pointless, it makes no sense to have to completely different power sources in the car, and given most hybrids have a tiny EV range they essentially become 'normal' petrol cars as soon as you have discharged the small battery.
Not really, they allow the petrol engine to operate at peak efficiency at all times so they consume less fuel for the same amount of power output. It's widely used on ships and trains.
 

gangzoom

Well-known Member
Not really, they allow the petrol engine to operate at peak efficiency at all times so they consume less fuel for the same amount of power output. It's widely used on ships and trains.
I assume with ships/trains you can run the engine at a set rev for a long time given most of the time you have a set speed. Where as in a car in my daily 1 hour commute my speed is constantly changing due to traffic/road conditions. The car is essentially either accelerating, decelerating or even stopped, with some bits in the middle where its working at a constant rate.

Also where does the power for the electric motor come from if it's working all the time? The battery pack on the i8 can only supply a short amount of EV power, so it must be constantly recharged by the petrol engine if it's to be constantly working to help support the drive unit...therefore the petrol engine cannot be working very efficiently if it's driving the wheels and having to recharge the battery?

The Volt and range extender i3 use their petrol engines to just recharge their battery packs which makes more sense, but using a electric motor to supplement the petrol engine, and than having to use the petrol engine to recharge the batter pack doesn't really make sense ?

The i8 has two electric motors, one petrol engine, two transmissions, and for all its technology can only manage a mediocre power output and a real world MPG that is hardly better than what you get from BMWs own blown 6 cylinder petrol units.

I'm all for technology, but only if it offers a real improvement over what we have already. Tesla have clearly shown whats possible if you think outside the box and developed something that is truly revolutionary, BMW on the other hand seem to be stuck in the old mindset, and trying to make a luxury/sporty version of the Prius, which it self has been around for over 10 years now. And though TopGear do liker to dramatise things they did prove that a Prius when driven around a race track is no more efficient than a V8 M3.
 

DOBLY

Well-known Member
You aren't getting it, are you?

Hybrids work by harnessing the wasted power of decelerating & braking, power that is usually emitted into the atmosphere as heat. The systems act as a kinetic energy store, transferring energy from one state to another in an effort to avoid wasting the initial input (burning carbon-based fuel). Also, when the car is simply cruising, the batteries are topped up in the same way that your car maintains the charge of the battery via the alternator, just in a more efficient way.

Take the McLaren P1 - it uses the energy usually lost as heat when braking to top up the on-board battery system, which can be used later to supplement or take over from the V8 petrol engine, to incredible effect, via electric motors.

Another example is the original Honda Insight from 1999 - this car can do over 100mpg because it is optimised to not waste energy when decelerating, and is light, has minimal rolling and air resistance, and doesn't have a large engine to start with.

The VW XL1 takes the concept of the original insight further, with recorded fuel usage up to 313MPG.

Honda's next NSX will be like a scaled-down McLaren P1 - not as extreme by any standards, but equally ground-breaking in the almost affordable sports car stakes.
 
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DOBLY

Well-known Member
Electric vehicles, such as the Tesla are different to hybrids in that they do not have an internal combustion engine on board, and rely solely on electricity generated either on-board, or from an external source such as a power station, which, depending on where you live, could be burning coal, diesel, or gas, but could be hydro or solar fuelled.
 

gangzoom

Well-known Member
I do understand the concept of energy recovery....But the quotes mpg of hybrid are fiction in real life, they assume a fully charged battery and limited use.

The i8 may have a stated 100mpg but two real world reviews I've read both quote sub 30mpg. I average 25mpg from my 6 years old 400bhp, 3l twinturbo petrol car....

So clearly energy recovery is not all that efficient. You cannot really believe electric hybrids are so efficient they can actually fully recharge their batteries from braking energy recovery??

I really have no interest in 'green' cars for the sake it been 'green'. I want a Tesla because it allows me access to extremely quick motoring for very little running costs.


Anyways it's clear the internal combustion engine has it's days limited. I know I will be driving a Tesla as my next car. The budgeting is done, got 3 years of saving to come :(
 

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