Not getting Widescreen

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by mikehibbert, Jan 21, 2005.

  1. mikehibbert

    mikehibbert
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    Grrrrr, now I'm confused!

    I have just set up my new DVD recorder (Sony GX700) but cannot get the picture to fill the screen. I have set the TV at 16:9 on the DVD player and the TV (LG RG44 DLP) is set to Auto (which it will select the screensize based on the input), but all i get is a small screen in the middle.

    I am using component input to the TV, but it does the same using scart. I can't believe that the player doesn't do it, and the TV definately does (as my old DVD player was fine), but I can't get the darned things to behave.


    Any suggestions?

    Mike
     
  2. mikehibbert

    mikehibbert
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    Also, interestingly, if I watch the Sky box through the DVD and on the Component AV, the piccy is still in squashed up mode, but flicking over to AV1 give widescreen, so it must be a setting on the DVD, but I'm buggered if I can find it!
     
  3. eddyad

    eddyad
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    This has cropped up a few times on this forum.
    The WS trigger can occur in two ways. The standard is a signal in line 23 of the picture (out of view). But scart provides for it on pin 8.

    Unfortunately it seems that DVDs are not (universally) detecting the Pin 8 version and sky are not sending the line 23 version.

    The DVDs seem not to use the pin 8 signal because it is a European idea in the scart. The line 23 signal, as far as I know, is an international standard.
    Sky boxes must get the line 23 version, because the pin 8 signal is generated from the line 23 signal.

    When you say AV1 i guess this is the direct Sky > TV connection.

    You should be able to set the TV manually from the handset.
     
  4. watchmaker

    watchmaker
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    For some reason some DVD recorders / videos don't capture the widescreen switching signal from Sky and some do which is probably what the problem is.

    If you set your TV to strech the picture does it look OK?

    I'm looking to buy a DVD recorder at the minute and this is a must-have feature for me as it's very annoying to have to set this manually on the TV.

    If anyone knows which DVD recorders do this and which don't I'd be very grateful.
     
  5. eddyad

    eddyad
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    For a start, Pioneers don't and from mikehibbert it seems Sonys don't. Toshiba let you add the WS signal manually, when you copy HDD>DVD I think, assuming you know it should be there.
    However there is some restriction on getting any WS signal on to DVDs longer than standard maximum of about 2h 20m which seems to be related to the DVD-video spec. I don't know if the Toshiba 'manual insertion' overcomes this or if a PC can do it.
    I think DVD-VR mode is OK, only on -RW disks though.
     
  6. mikehibbert

    mikehibbert
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    Hello,

    Interesting stuff. I have done some more tests and I now get the DVD playing in widesceen, but ONLY when sky is turned off. As soon as I turn sky on, the picture flicks back to 4:3. Shouldn't be too much of a problem though, just have to remember where I am.
    Presumably any recoding from SKY will still be from the widescreen source and will playback in widesceen (as long as sky is off)?

    cheers
    mike
     
  7. eddyad

    eddyad
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    I've been looking around and here is some more info.
    Line 23 can carry about 6 format signals - 4:3, 16:9, 14:9, ???
    Pin 8 carries only two - 16:9, 4:3 (the 0v doesn't count as a format).
    The Pin 8 signal is a voltage characterestic:
    * 12v normal AV mode
    * 8v widescreen AV mode
    * 0v RF mode
    So it's conceivable that the Sky box is at 12v is switching the TV in some way - swamping the 8v WS siganl?.

    On your second comment, I don't think it will play back automatically in WS. The picture will be in the 'squashed' format but the DVD won't know (no line 23 signal) so it will just record the squashed pic as a 4:3 image. You can unsquash it manually because you are telling the TV to do it.
     
  8. Joe Pineapples

    Joe Pineapples
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    I would also like my first dvd-hdd recorder to handle this automatically (thinking mostly with the HDD), and hopefully the next generation ones will address it. Is there a list anywhere of the current models that do?. (or maybe you could post here if yours does)
     
  9. mikehibbert

    mikehibbert
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    Thanks for the replies. Would the situation be made better then if I were to ditch the scart from the sky box to the DVD recorder and use a s-video then? Would this stop the pin 8 signal and rely solely on the line 23 signal? Is the drop off in quality from scart to s-video much?
     
  10. captainpacific

    captainpacific
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    I don't have any WS switching problems with my Pioneer, and nor does my Mum with hers.
     
  11. JethroUK

    JethroUK
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    i cant see any mantion where you've set sky box to 16:9, bearing in mind TV auto mode would stretch it if if wasn't set

    with so many output device and so many viewing modes - you have to reduce these variables to set up correctly & you must start by switching your TV out-of- "Auto-sizing" mode - otherwise you wont know what the hell anything is 'actually' putting-out

    once you are set up you can switch your TV back on to 'Auto'
     
  12. mikehibbert

    mikehibbert
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    Thanks Jethro, I have already done that though. In fact I thought about it and was sure I had sussed it, as the sky+ box has two viewing modes (one for TV and one for "other location" - dunno wot that is). I have now set them both to 16:9, and the DVD player is also set to 16:9.
    Its wierd really, as when I remove the Sky input to the DVD player (L3 on the dvd) it flicks into 4:3 mode and if I put it back in it goes to 16:9 UNTIL I switch Sky on and then it reverts to 4:3.
    I guess this message is sounding a but garbled, but i'm fairly clear in my mind that everying is set to 16:9.
    The TV is best off in auto mode isn't it, as it will actually show me what I'm putting out, othewise i'm "frigging" the input to be the mode I want?
    I'd like to understand what is happening, but It isn't too much of a problem as I can watch a DVD as long as the sky box isnt on (and it can be off and record, so thats not a problem) and the sky picture is ok. The recording of sky to dvd is also ok, cos even thoug it looks in 4:3, when I play back on the dvd it is 16:9 (as long as the sky is then off).

    Confusing hey? But welcome to my world, i'm a SAS Programmer and nothing is as confusing as that!
     
  13. eddyad

    eddyad
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    captainpacific, I wonder if you could let us know:
    1. Which Pioneer recorder(s) are you using?
    2. Which Sky box?
    3. Are you talking about playback of recordings on HDD and/or DVD?
    4. Do you use scart cables to connect the Sky box to the recorder or are you recording from an RF output from the Sky box?

    As one member of this forum had this problem with a Pioneer 420 (could be 520) before Christmas and spent ages trying to sort it out (and failing), your replies could be very helpful. I based my Pioneer comment on his finding. I don't have Sky.
     
  14. eddyad

    eddyad
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    Is the TV in Auto mode for this playback? Also, if there are 4:3 ads does the picture size change automatically for them?
     
  15. captainpacific

    captainpacific
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    In both cases the Pioneer 220. We've had two different Pace Sky boxes and one Philips Freeview box running into them at various stages - none have exhibited any widescreen switching problems.

    All have been connected via scarts from the TV out (RGB) to the L1 input on the 220 (RGB).

    Straightforward set up. I can't find that thread you referred to - do you have a note of it, link to it? I would be very interested to read it.
     
  16. captainpacific

    captainpacific
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    Have you checked your SCART lead? I know this sounds daft but I was left completely puzzled by a bizarre problem not totally unlike this and it turned out to be due to a duff lead.
     
  17. MikeMcr

    MikeMcr
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    Here is the original thread:

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167412

    It is only Sky boxes that are the problem; Freeview boxes work fine. Pioneer even confirmed to me that this is true.

    Are you saying that you can record a programme from Sky that switches aspect (e.g. a 16:9 programme with 4:3 adverts) and when you play it back, the TV switches aspect between 16:9 and 4:3 at all the right points?
     
  18. mikehibbert

    mikehibbert
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    Well, this is where it gets wierder!

    I did just record a bit off sky, and flicked around the channels from a 16:9 broadcast to a 4:3 one.

    If I play this back through the DVD I get the following.

    On the Componant channel it plays only in 4:3, but on AV1 it play in both 16:9 and 4:3 at the right times.

    So, it must be pushing the signal back into the sky box from the DVD and then feeding it to the TV (for it to be on AV1), and the sky box seems to be putting the right format out. If it comes from the DVD player, it goes through componant cables and is not playing correctly.

    This gets wierder :rolleyes:

    I will try a new cable as well to see if it makes any difference.


    Mike
     
  19. eddyad

    eddyad
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    This is the thread where it all started.
    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167412
    It was the comment from Pioneer that seemed to set the basis for the line23/pin8 and Sky discussions.
    It would be great for the baffled Sky users to find out exactly what the rules are.

    There is one certainty and that is that Pioneer DVD-R and -RW in video mode do not record the WS signal in long play modes MN1-18 - more than 2h 20m per DVD. A WS pic is squashed but can be expanded manually on the TV.

    It seems Panasonics don't record the WS flag at all in DVD video mode.
     
  20. captainpacific

    captainpacific
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    Thanks for the link - I'll study it tomorrow (it's a bit long for tonight and I've had too many beers). However, beers or not, I can say that I had no idea that there was an aspect ratio problem with Sky and Pioneer because I haven't seen a problem myself, so I've never looked into it. Blissfully happy and ignorant. Yes, everything switches around all on its own at the right times. The only time there is a momentary hesitation is when the Pioneer is being switched on or off - I presumed that was when the TV was working out what to do next.

    OK, it's Sunday morning. I have performed a series of recordings in SP DVD-RW VR mode. All WS switching from Sky works perfectly as far as the end result is concerned on my TV. What I see is the picture changing aspect ratio when it should when I play back the recordings on my Philips TV. I'm sure I remember the same working fine on my Mum's Toshiba TV too, otherwise I'm sure I would have noticed it (but I can't guarantee that - I'll test it specifically when I next go to Mum's).

    BUT - and I don't understand this - it doesn't switch when I play it back on my old Panasonic TV - it just stays in the starting aspect ratio of the recording, whether that was 4:3 or 16:9. Same scart cables used.

    Now I'm confused.
     
  21. captainpacific

    captainpacific
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    I don't use DVD-R at all and generally use -RW in VR mode. Also, I mostly try to keep under the 2hr 20 min quality limit. I don't think I have ever combined the conditions you quote. I'll try tomorrow - might shed some light.

    OK - I can't comment on DVD-R (I haven't got any) but you're right about the DVD-RW video mode and LP. Not a significant problem though.
     
  22. eddyad

    eddyad
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    No offence - join the club :laugh:

    Here's another little gem. If you record WS without the flag (e.g. >2h20m DVD-video on a Pioneer) then it won't expand at all on a 4:3 TV, whatever you tell the DVD machine about the TV. But I have a Sanyo 'bedroom' 4:3 TV with a 'squeeze' button (the mind boggles) and this squeezes the height of the pic vertically to accomodate anamorphic DVD pics so the proportions ae correct - like a letterbox TV transmission.

    I've also discovered that my Sony WS TV is sometimes 'forgetful' about what it should do on Freeview broadcasts and HDD playback, and will 'lock' in one a/r until it's put in standby and back on.

    IMHO the whole a/r business is a shambles :(
     
  23. captainpacific

    captainpacific
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    :laugh:
    I guess I'm just lucky then with my combination of kit, somehow knowing what aspect ratio it should be showing. What a totally hit and miss affair! Well, this at least supports my thought behind buying just a Pioneer 220 recently, rather than splashing out on a "main machine" now. I'll wait until they've sorted out some of these absurd messes, include a good digital receiver, etc., etc. Then the 220 can go in the kitchen and I'll have what I really want in the lounge. Until then, I think I'm going to look at the sound system next. I hope that's not a minefield too .... :rolleyes:
     
  24. eddyad

    eddyad
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    Surround sound or plain stereo, CD, SACD, DVD audio, digital or analogue amplifier, digital radio or just FM, AM?, Receiver or tuner and amp, tuner and pre-amp and amp, dual amps, bi-wire speakers, subwoofer or not Then there are the cables....

    You did mention it :laugh:

    Or one of these...
     

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  25. captainpacific

    captainpacific
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    Digital surround sound, separates, using my existing speakers for front left and right perhaps? First question is whether to adapt my existing hi-fi or go for an all-in-one surround sound system from scratch.

    But I guess that'll be another thread on another forum (which one I wonder?).

    I'm more comfortable where just sound is concerned, but probably a lot more fussy.
     
  26. eddyad

    eddyad
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    I wouild guess the first two forums under Audio.
     
  27. mikehibbert

    mikehibbert
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    Just as a follow-up to this, I finally got it sorted. The DVD Recorded was set to record in 4:3, but playback in 16:9, so when the sky + box was turned on the recorder got a signal to say that it should be in 4:3 to record. I changed this to 16:9 and now i can watch the DVD and turn the sky box on and it stays in 16:9!

    Cheers for all the input!
     

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