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Not as good as they used to be in the good 'ol days

Discussion in 'General Video Gaming Chat' started by JUS, Feb 3, 2003.

  1. JUS

    JUS
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    Recently I've heard loads of people say that Games don't get them as excited as they used to. I've felt this for a while but haven't really thought why....until now..

    I do still buy a console or two at launch and buy all the games that appeal as soon as they are released...but I find myself playing the games less and less. I've come to the conclusion that they are losing their appear for a few reasons:

    Too much like the grim side of reality.
    Max Payne – pretty grim game. In the opening sequence you hear your wife and child being killed and then see your wife slumped over the bed…nice. Soldier of Fortune to name the obvious...is it fun to shoot peoples legs off?...well..it was the first few times but after you get over the novelty factor it is a pretty naff gross game.
    Project Gotham - Driving around London...I don't like doing that in real life so why did I buy a game to do it :suicide:

    I don't like my games to resemble reality. I got into playing games to have fun and to use it as a bit of escapism. Now a lot of the games are getting too real.

    Loads of games are sequels. I’ve played the 1-6 games in the series before it. I buy sequels cos it’s graphics are incredible, all the mags are raving about it and I haven't played a game in the series for a few years. Resident Evil:Code Veronica... fine game but it felt like the previous three games in the series. Would I buy the latest version on the GC…..yawn I wouldn't even bother reading a review.

    Some games do still grip me and I can't put them down....just like the good ol days. So I'm pretty sure it's not just me getting old.

    I've been thinking about buying a GC recently because the games seem to be a bit more original...Pikimin, Super MonkeyBall (sequel for that already out!) but I can't bring myself to play games that would look at home in the Early Learning Centre....Wife gives me enough stick already when I'm buying all my HC and gaming stuff.

    Anyone else got any thoughts?

    Jus.
     
  2. Sam

    Sam
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    ;)

    When you're a kid you'll always find games more magical because you've still got an imagination and everything seems new. You've seen everything now and its not so new.

    I find that I don't have hardly any time to play games anymore, and when I do get into a game I'll have a break from it for a week because I'm busy, then won't be able to get back into it again.

    Buy a GC with Monkey Ball and spend a weekend playing it with your mates. Forget about your wifes jibes because it is the best multiplayer game in years.

    :smashin:
     
  3. Sinzer

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    The graphics in SMB are simplistic but quite nice.

    The graphics in Pikmin are gorgeous, regardless of what a screeny looks like, it was very satisfying to play and very amusing in full motion plus sound.

    Super Mario graphics are unbelievable on a big screen, the water effects rock.

    I am sorry, but anyone who complains about the Nintendo style graphics simply hasn't sat down to watch them properly. And yes my history is a hardcore fragging Doom/Quake/Unreal/CS online player.

    The more realistic a game gets it does inevitably get more dull. I too prefer my games to be completely unrealistic :) Nintendo does that very well!
     
  4. JUS

    JUS
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    I'm not complaining about the graphics....although I can't stand that plumber bloke who's based on one of the Village People. :D The graphics are nice...it's just they're designed (like the actual box itself) to appeal to kids and therefore it's a prime target for the wife to snear at and suggest I grow up!

    The other reason I haven't gone the Nintendo route because is the utter contempt Nintendo show towards Europe. Does the GC suffer from PAL slow down and boarders or can it do PAL60 and widescreen?

    Jus.
     
  5. RiskyLuca

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    I started way back in the eighties with the Spectrum, so long ago in fact that I can't remember where I put it! I would pay a pretty penny to play to the likes of Manic Miner again. I then moved onto the Amiga and have fond memories of my pals coming up on a Saturday night with a few bottles of wine and some frozen pizza and playing Speedball and the Microsoft Formula 1 game until the sun came up. Then suffering the obligatory parental whinge!
    Then came the Playstation, too many games to mention, but Driver 2 and Crash Team Racing stick in my mind. I love the multiplayer games you see. Some originality may have been lost in current games but when there's four of you, you will always enjoy that sense of competition whatever the game. I'm lucky enough to have replaced those pals from previous years with my own flock, so I have multiplayer options whenever I need them. Although your age really hits home when your 7 year old makes mincemeat out of you on Super Smash Bros!! And I'm not talking some sad old dad here. I used to be untouchable on anything, reducing my older brother to snapping more than one joystick in frustration!!
    I would have to agree with SAM though, games were more magical back in our younger days, when the obstacle of work the following day wasn't a burden. I too find little time today.
    I am pleased though having gone down the GC route as it's simply my kind of machine - fun, colourful and plenty of multiplayer options - with 4 wavebirds to boot it's the most fun one can spend on a wet weekend.
    If your put off by the 'PAL' issue JUS then simply go down the US or JAP route (if your TV can accept it). There have been enough posts in this forum to make it a very easy decision. My US machine was delivered within 3 days and I've picked up games at fantastic prices. Happy gaming;)
     
  6. spidermanalf

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    Last night I got a MAME emu for my Xbox, and spent 4 hours playing Smash TV!!!!

    So oldies can still be goodies!!!!

    It's all playability!!!
     
  7. JUS

    JUS
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    RiskyLuca,

    Where do you buy your UA/Jap games? Prices I've seen have been around the £60 mark.

    Jus.
     
  8. Sam

    Sam
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    www.dvdboxoffice.com are the cheapest I know of. You will typically get a gamecube game for around the £35 mark.

    www.tronixweb.com are slightly more expensive, but normally have more stoick and better delivery times.

    www.ncsx.com offer similar prices to tronix.

    I've ordered US Zelda from dvdboxoffice for $72 Canadian Dollars - the current exchange rate is about 2.4/2.5 even if my credit card company give me a slightly dodgy exchange rate, I should still only pay around £30.

    :clap:
     
  9. RiskyLuca

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    JUS
    As per SAM's above reply, although I've just had a bad experience with dvdboxoffice and I'm not the only one. Although others have used them plenty of times before and they certainly are the cheapest. However, you don't necessarily need to buy from a retailer. I've had a few off eBay, so long as you checkout their feedback rating you shouldn't have any trouble. I've just received 'Animal Crossing' this week (brand new sealed) plus memory card and post & packaging, and I paid just £28!
     
  10. JUS

    JUS
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    Thanks for that.

    I think I'll take the plunge. I'm going to Florida in May so I can bring a few back then...although I probably won't be able to find games as cheap as you can get them on the web anyway.

    Have you ever been stung for duty?
     
  11. NeoBlade

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    I have been hit with tax... But then thats because I ordered Tekki on the XBOX ^_^ Other than that I've had no problems from DVDBoxoffice.com or any other site thus far.

    BTW Smash TV is a cracking game... Remember playing that on my Amstrad CPC 464 then on my NES (with two controllers of course!) then on the SNES. Ikai Warriors on the Amstrad is another game I remember spending time with along with Dizzy, Kung Fu, Yie Ar Kung Fu, IK+, Marble Madness, Bombjack, Boulderdash, Street Fighter, Hang On, etc etc.

    As for games not being as good as the ol' days... There are many factors that contribute to this. The main one IMO is time. When we were kids either in primary or secondary school we had shedloads of time to kick back and relax (well I know I did <g>). I remember just dying to come home from school just to play Super Mario on the NES and Double Dragon... Then StreetFighter II on the SNES a few years after. We had TIME to burn exploring and indeed enjoying the games available. Also in that era, genres were either being born or maturing so we saw new features constantly with every update to almost every genre.

    While most games were simple at heart they were charming and IMO I believe that core aspect is missing in the current crop of videogames. They are no longer fun in the way we remember it to be because they have evolved with the times, and it has every right to.

    Compare this generation of gamers to the ones in the 70's, 80's and 90's and you will see a sharp increase in violence as a cheap pulling factor... Can anyone guess the number one seller this Xmas?

    Sure GTA3 and Vice City isn't just mindless slaughtering but you are given the option to do just that. Some people find fun in that, while others find the non-lineararity boring.

    Getting back on point, almost every genre has reached saturation point so we've just been seeing evolution rather than revolutions. Mario Sunshine being a prime example of that (although shiggy is working on Mario 128 of which he promises will be a true sequel...). Many other games are guilty of this as well and I can't be bothered to list them all as we all know what they are.

    Sadly, evolution for the current videogame market seems like "more levels, more moves, more characters..." but where are the key words of innovation? Fun? Exploration? Hell games thesedays have no sense of exploration outside of the RPG genre because blatent cheats can be entered to ruin the game. Not only have cheats ruined games IMO but also slack level design in general. Innovation in level design thankfully lives on though through the use of modding... Counter Strike being the most well known I believe.

    Anyways I would ramble on but this headache isn't going away and I'm not making any sense >_< I'll add more beef to the stew when I get better.
     
  12. JUS

    JUS
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    Neoblade,

    yea. I mostly agree.

    I think the reason why I'm heading over towards Nintendo because they do things very differently to the others....like trying to find a new genre

    I don't agree about the time thing. Yes my life is very busy with work, family etc but I do make the time when a great game comes along i.e. get the kids to bed at 8pm and have the rest of the evening playing games. Recent games I can remember spending hours playing are Tomb Raider I, Gran Tourismo I, Tekken2, Unreal, Championship Mgr and Halo. There have been massive gaps in time between the games.. where I've been into Game every weekend in the hope of finding something. I have bought loads more games but have generally been disappointed.

    I have bought a number of mags recently. All but Edge just seem to give 7or8 out of 10 for the vast majority of games. Only the real rank games get low scores. Guess if they give too many naff scores no one will advertise in their mag.

    Jus.



    Jus.
     
  13. Sam

    Sam
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    I also think that you're more cynical and look at things with a critical eye as an adult.

    Much as I try not to, I do find myself criticising a game in my head because of slowdown or other glitches that I would barely have noticed as a kid.

    You almost know what to expect with games these days because you know what the possibilities are - as a kid you think that almost everything is great and a revolution.
     
  14. Sinzer

    Sinzer
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    I was always critical of slowdown! A console game should never have any slowdown, if there is then it is bad programming.

    Yes, it does make a difference as you get older, your tastes do change. I must admit I have played a lot more on my GC than when I had my PS2, apart from RPGs there is a lot to be said about the innovative games on the GC.

    I just can't wait to get my NTSC cube so I can get down to some Metroid Prime and Animal Crossing!
     
  15. Sam

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    The point is that its when you start being bothered about the programming and the glitches that the game stops being magical and exciting. I would bet that you're more critical and cynical about games now than you were 10 years ago?

    I went through that stage when I got my Playstation where I would analyse every game for polygon folding and pop up and ended up not enjoying any of them.

    Its better just to sit back and enjoy what is good about the game.

    I agree that GC games seem to be more innovative at the mo - can't wait for US Zelda to be released. :smashin:
     
  16. Sinzer

    Sinzer
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    I think the major problem is that the glitches and bugs in those days were funny and often added to the game. You knew you could cream anything if you just sat in the one corner, but after doing it a couple of times you wouldn't bother, you would try to do it properly, or by getting a better score.

    These days the bugs tend to be frustrating as hell, due to the added complexity they tend to do things like wreck your save game or trap you in some textures.

    I am more critical now about certain aspects, especially storyline and presentation. However, I was just as critical in the old days as a nipper about slowdown, that was my point, I always used to hate it :p
     
  17. Sam

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    Not sure that I agree that today's bugs are any worse - I have never had a game wreck my save file or trap me in some textures!

    Either way, lets just agree to disagree. :D
     
  18. NeoBlade

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    Heh I was pretty critical of videogames during my younger years since thats when I started to learn about the hardware and software that drives its all. The main thing I look out for now though isn't graphics but level design ever since Mario 64... Since I was really sceptical that anyone could turn a classic 2D game into 3D and Nintendo did just that with some flair. They then followed it up with Zelda: OOT and now Retro with Metroid Prime. I guess thats why I'm really looking forward to Zelda: WW as well since I'm sure the level design will be just as fresh and with the new visuals it will stand out even more.

    I agree with Sinzer though about slowdown but I was more angry (and still am) about one aspect... Borders and the massive speed decrease with PAL ports. From the hardware there isn't anything there that will cause a massive bottleneck for such a bad port other than laziness on the devlopers behalf. Thats what cheesed me off more than anything - Shoddy PAL ports and the way european gamers are treated. We overpay for our videogames that have essentially been downgraded. Devil May Cry and Final Fantasy X being the worst culprits recently. I could rant on about this but I wont since I'm late for work ^_^;;

    I guess its because Sinzer and I have a background with PCs and technology so we hate looking at wasted potential and games that are just plain lazy.

    About the time issue though I guess it depends on what kind of lifestyle you live. I agree though that some games thesedays they don't deserve the time of day and sadly the ones that do are not released in Europe. You can tell I've got a bone to pick here lol ^_^ I think I'll leave it as that for now... Don't want to get too worked up ^_^;;
     
  19. JUS

    JUS
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    I was really chuffed when I got the first few DC/XBOX games... without pop up and smooth looking graphics etc. Really noticed the difference going from PS1 to DC. My expectations are being raised all the time.

    Saying that. Glitches don't really affect the time I spend playing the games as long as they are good games.
    Jus.
     
  20. James45

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    as i have said elsewhere buy a gamecube, a wavebird controller, a copy of freeloader and away you go. Hours of gaming joy in a small plastic cube. stuff what people say about it. no-one is immune to the charms of Pikmin and Super Monkey Ball. No-one!
     
  21. Sinzer

    Sinzer
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    Console game bugs are not so apparent these days. I was really talking about PC gaming, where bugs can be especially devastating and very common.

    Yes lazy games are a big annoyance, it surprises me that many of these companies release the crap. 99% of the people who games programme are games players, they must know the crap they are creating.
     
  22. James45

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    or you could devote nearly ten years of your life to a game like Peter Molineux did and still release a game so buggy it did the unthinkable and made black and white less than legendary.
    if it had less bugs I am sure I would still be playing it.
     
  23. Sam

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    Agreed on that count.

    I have a fairly decent PC (1800+ AMD Athlon, half a gig of RAM, Geforce 3), but NEVER play game on it because they're too much hassle. Last game I played was Deus Ex.

    Much prefer to sit down on the sofa with a (relatively) bug free GC or Xbox game.
     
  24. NeoBlade

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    Not all PC games have bugs... Well okay that a lie but most of them have a simple solution... Usually via a patch though. Thats why consoles have boomed because their polygon power has increased tenfold over the last generation of consoles and prices are just tumbling down and that can only mean good value for the consumer.

    Still, I'd love to see someone out there to really break the mould with videogames in terms of concept and level design. Right now almost all of the genres have reached their limits and with online capabilities its just another excuse to roll out the same game with that feature and call it a full blown sequel. Sure Peter Molineux can and does take years to develop his games but he's willing to take that risk to do something different to influence the current state of videogames.

    I guess thats why I'm looking forward to see more interesting projects from Nintendo, Sega, Free Radicals, Lionhead Studios, id and Rare. All of these companies will take their time to develop their games and will often take risks to do something different. Maybe someone like EA can take notice eh? Keep on milking that cash cow of FIFA Football but put some resources to make something new or sign up an upcoming small, talented workforce with fresh ideas. Sure it would be a risk but it would be a small one for EA.

    Microsoft made a huge fuss on how it will support new talent to work on the Xbox by actively supporting the cause and lowering property costs... So far I haven't seen anything come to fruitition from it. I guess that idea was scrapped so MS went on a larger spending spree...
     
  25. James45

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    i was pointing out that even though he took years to develop a truly fantastic ground-breaking game, Black and White was so buggy on release it was almost unplayable.

    Thinking about it wouldn't Black and White be an easy console port? it only has the hand to control.
     
  26. spidermanalf

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    They did that with the BIG series of games. (SSX Tricky, freakstyle, Shox and an upcoming fighter!)
     

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