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Not 16:9 after all??

Discussion in 'Satellite TV, Sky TV & FreeSat' started by Squirrel God, May 12, 2002.

  1. Squirrel God

    Squirrel God
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    What's with the BBC not putting out proper 16:9 material on digital channels?

    Is it just me, or is a lot of their programming not quite 16:9? i.e. some material doesn't quite hit the left and right edges.... Yet the overlays they put on do :mad: They seem to favour a 1" black strip down the left and right sides.

    Seems to occur a lot on News24 (on location footage, not studio footage), CBBC and CBeebies.

    ITV1/2 do it too, but the BBC seem to do it more.....

    Any ideas why?

    Cheers :)
     
  2. Garrett

    Garrett
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    Could this be that they use some regional recordings? on some location stuff it is proper 16:9 (shoot by non regional crew).
    ITV News never do 16:9.
     
  3. Squirrel God

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    Why would regional recordings affect it? And if so, shouldn't it be 4:3 rather than almost 16:9? :confused:

    Very annoying anyway!

    ITV do a similar thing when they show You've Been Framed. Obviously, the home videos aren't widescreen, but they make them almost 16:9 by zooming in and chopping a bit off the top and bottom..... maybe the Beeb are doing the same thing...

    Thought it might also be something to do with reducing the bitrate by chopping off the edges - perhaps to get a 'less compressed look' from the remaining picture ... that doesn't seem quite sensible to me though.......

    Hhhhmmmm :confused:
     
  4. t-force

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    I heard that the Beeb do broadcast some programmes in 14:9, i.e. "half-widescreen", so that could be what you're seeing.
     
  5. Squirrel God

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    Nope, it's not 14:9..... the black strips are much narrower than that.
     
  6. squid

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    i think it comes down to old cameras .up until very resently they were not going to do widescreen . this may meen that some of there reporting units will be left with camers not capable of doing widescreen . to fill the screen up a little they do what some widescreen tvs do , chop a little of the top and bottom off so you have half size bars

    just think of it this way . when somone gets there first widscreen tv they don't just throw away there 4:3 tv . it tends to get put in a bedroom or somthing like . i'm sure they have done a similar thing . all the slightly older camers ect. have been given less important rolls .

    you will notice it on things like darts aswell . when it gos to one of the cameras that is built into the set it gos to 4:3 . we will still be stuck with a lot of 4:3 stuff for quite some time yet . at least till all the 4:3 stuff dreaks down and is replaced anyway
     
  7. Squirrel God

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    Ahh - cheers :D ... that's the in-depth answer I was looking for. So they're just zooming in on 4:3 material as I suspected. Interesting about the old cameras..... Let's hope they break soon ;) :p
     
  8. steev

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    My daughter is a big CBeebies fan and it makes me smile that it's all shown in widescreen when it's obviously mostly not made that way. You can see where credits are too close to the bottom of the screen.

    What's the point? Small children don't care about widescreen.

    Steve
     
  9. Doubledoom

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    The reason CBeebies and certain other broadcasts from the BBC do this (or use 4:3 with a 16:9 frame, like sport) is that they cannot change from Anamorphic widescreen transmissions to non-anamorphic transmissions during the programme. They need an actual break from the programme to do this.

    As there are not enough cameras that are widescreen yet (as already mentioned) and as not all source material comes in widescreen (other countries and news sources), they have the option of showing a 4:3 frame inside 16:9 or crop the 4:3 to give a 14:9 ratio inside 16:9.

    With the news, they tend to use 14:9 inside 16:9. With sport you tend to use 4:3 inside 16:9. CBeebies is treated as one programme which is repeated every 3-4 hours so those programmes which were originally filmed in 4:3 are cropped to 14:9 and shown in the 16:9 frame. The view is, i guess, that children would prefer not to have the black bars.

    Irony is that the 14:9 crop does not suit anybody when using a digital platform. Those that have 4:3 sets and use the 4:3 setting will see a centre crop of a transmission that has already been cropped. Those with 4:3 sets and use the 4:3 letterbox option will have black bars all round. Those with widescreen sets and have the 16:9 option will have black bars down the side.
     
  10. steev

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    Doubledoom,

    I though CBeebies was actually 16:9, but I may be wrong.

    If you crop twice like that on a 4:3 screen you must be losing a lot of picture. I may try calculating it later for a laugh.

    Basically it's all compromised because some people don't like black bars and don't understand why they should be there. Those of us who prefer to see the image as originally filmed lose out.

    Steve
     
  11. juboy

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    What's really sickening is that all ITV commercials are now screened in Widescreen (usually with better Pro-logic sound quality too) while 90% of their actual progamming isn't!!

    Now I realise that well made adverts are actually better than most ITV shows but that's hardly the point:)
     
  12. Kevo

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    Some 'new' programmes are better off being shown in 4:3 rather than 16:9.

    You've been framed for one, as mentioned above.

    Also, these cheapo 'nostalgia' type progs that the BBC seem to like doing, where they interview the same bunch of celebs about yesteryear and zoom in and crop old TV footage to fit 16:9.

    The one about the F.A. cup last week was a prime example where the old footy footage looked odd and 'out of shape' at 16:9.

    I can never understand why they do this.
     
  13. Doubledoom

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    CBeebies is transmitted as permenant 16:9. However, not all the programming is available in 16:9 so they crop the 4:3 versions to 14:9 and transmit those in the 16:9 frame. This creates the 2 thin black bars down the side.

    Bob the builder would be one such example.
     
  14. Squirrel God

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    I heard a rumour that Bob was a TV engineer for a while..... but after a (failed) suicide attempt, he gave it up. He got very depressed that he couldn't fix customers' TVs to their satisfaction (his inability to fully correct geometry errors was the main reason apparently) :D

    Regarding cropping 4:3 down to 14:9 - they do this when showing ABC news on BBC News 24...

    But the stuff that I was referring to (like You've been framed, CBeebies, CBBC, etc) is not 14:9, it is more like 15:9 or 15.5:9 as the black strips are not as "thick" as those on 14:9. I can only conclude that they crop quite a bit off the 4:3 pictures here - which is why they generally look crap with poor resolution :mad:
     
  15. squid

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    sounds like most digital tv :(

    i would'nt put it past them if there was a little pic stretching going on aswell as the cropping on some of this stuff
     
  16. MartinImber

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    I have an urgent need for Pingu, Bob, and Bill & Ben on DVD!
     
  17. MartinImber

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    BTW I hate pay TV, due to the shoddy way ITVD was run, also the £14 per month and the incessant logos!
     
  18. Stuart Brooks

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    I find that those cropped 4:3 to 14:9 broadcasts in a 16:9 frame only have 1 black bar down the left hand side, I believe this is how it's transmitted. It also seems to fill more of the width of the screen than 14/16ths.

    Perhaps some TVs try to centre the image and you get twice the number of black bars!

    I wonder why Cbeebies don't do what some sport programmes do, broadcast any original 4:3 programming in a 16:9 anamorphic frame with "cinema" curtains down each side. These could be slowly changing to avoid screen burn with projectors. It also means that those using centre-crop on 4:3 sets (an increasing number I would think as desperate parents buy a FTA box for the kiddies portable) would see the complete original image.

    Stuart
     
  19. Doubledoom

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    That is incorrect i'm afraid. The positioning of the 14:9 picture will vary depending on the source and how that sync'd before broadcast. The differences are most notable during the news. However, a correctly set-up television will give you black bars down both sides. It sounds as if yours has too much overscan and/or positioning is out.
     
  20. Squirrel God

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    Stuart,

    I agree with DoubleDoom. Although I'll add to his comments by saying that it could also be RGB shift causing this on your TV (if you use RGB input for digital TV).
     

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