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Non upgradeable PC

Discussion in 'PC Gaming & Rigs' started by sifowler, Jun 16, 2003.

  1. sifowler

    sifowler
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    Hi,

    My dad went and bought a PC from PC World.....yes I know ! Anyway its a 2.3Ghz Intel Celeron with 64Mb (shared) integrated graphics card.

    He wants to know if the PC will run Championship Manager 4. He asked one of the staff at the shop who said as it stands it wouldn't run CM4 - the graphics card would need upgrading. So I told him I could probably get him one of the Internet for around £45-50 which would do the job for him.

    Anyway, after investigating the spec of the PC it seems the graphics card is not upgradeable at all - the Intel chipset doesn't support an AGP slot.

    Now it could be the case that the integrated card WILL run CM4 but I'm wondering if my dad has a case for returning the PC to get a refund because of the staff's complete lack of knowledge ??
     
  2. HMHB

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    Are you sure it's not upgradable as most motherboards also have an AGP slot as well as on board ?
     
  3. sifowler

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    Well, the spec for graphics is :
    64Mb Intel 82845GL Integrated Graphics

    I searched for Intel 82845GL on Google and I found a page comparing the Intel chipsets and it said the 845GL has no AGP slot.
     
  4. HMHB

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    You are correct - I've just looked on the Intel site - the Intel 82845G has an AGP slot but not the one your dad has. Did he ask the question about it running CM4 when he was buying the computer or had he already got it then ? If the question was asked when buying the computer I would try and go back to the shop with that information and ask what they will do for you. Have you tried downloading the demo of the game and trying it ? It may be that the computer will run it - the salesman didn't know what he was on about anyway so it would be worth a try. If you don't have a fast connection I would imagaine that any of the games mags will be doing a demo of the game on the free CDs.
    Good luck
     
  5. Garrett

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    I do not know if they still do them but surely they still make PCI graphic cards? If they do could you use one and disable the on board chip?
     
  6. Garrett

    Garrett
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  7. RL123

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    If he said it would run CM4 BEFORE you paid for it, then return it - the salesman was incorrect and gave you misleading information.
     
  8. sifowler

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    Well as Garrett pointed out, a PCI graphics card could be added so in theory the salesman wasn't incorrect - although I hate to admit it !

    Garrett - thanks for that. I must admit I'd forgotten about PCI graphics cards. I just need to find out if the on board card can be disabled.
     
  9. Squiffy

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    I find that hard to believe - CM4 is one of the most graphically undemanding games around.

    Have you tried it?
     
  10. sifowler

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    Squiffy - my dad hasn't tried it yet but yes, CM4 is just a few static screens and a few counters randomly moving around a green rectangle !

    I was a bit dubious when my dad told me what the guy said. I suppose its possible that he was trying to flog him a graphics card at the same time (not that it would have fitted in any slot !).
     
  11. HMHB

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    It is worth a word of caution about PCI graphics cards. I've seen quite a few instances when people have put in a PCI 3D graphics card and found no difference in performance. This is because the AGP bus is far quicker than the PCI bus and so the benefit of the better graphics card is cancelled out.
     
  12. Garrett

    Garrett
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    I suppose it depends on which chip set the chip on the MB is based on or equal to.
    I have a mate who put a AGP card in his system which was the same as mine except mine had the equivalent PCI card, 3D Banshee (long story how this came about). I do not think the 3d mark were vastly different. And although slower it still made use of the graphic capabilities.
     
  13. Sinzer

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    Get the demo and try it. No way will CM4 be blocked by a graphics card. Memory perhaps but not graphics card. Most people I have seen play it usually have it on their work laptops on the trains :p
     
  14. Garrett

    Garrett
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    I was in touch with my mate and he said that there would not be that big of a difference between an AGP and PCI.
    Next year they are bringing a new PCI system out that will be faster than AGP but you will need a new MD for it.
     
  15. paiger

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    I used to run a computer business where I would try desperately to convince people that it was worth paying £50 extra to have upgradability and good components. For some reason, they would then go and buy a naff machine from PC World on the advice of some monkey brained fool and then phone me up asking why it didn't work and why they couldn't upgrade it.

    My advice, trash the mobo, it's probably PC CHips anyway. Mind you, the case is probably non-standard anyway so you can't put a good motherboard in it.

    Not by any chance a Packard Bell is it?:suicide:
     
  16. sifowler

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    Its an e-machines PC. I think as long he can play CM4 and get on the Internet then my dad will be happy. The PC cost £599 with a 15" TFT, 512MB RAM (although not the quickest type), 80Gb Hard Drive (again, I doubt its the quickest of things) and 2.3Ghz Intel Celeron. I suppose a pre-built PC with a TFT at that price you can't expect too much.

    I was going to build him a PC but unfortunately didn't have time - but I think thats the only way you can guarantee you get what you want.
     
  17. betamac

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    Perfect example of how PC world rip you off they put a HUGE P4 2.4GHz Sticker on the PC and suck people in with a cheap price, then when you get it home you realize all you have is a fast processor and absolutely nothing else one big rip-off,

    i run my own PC business and we make them to order, we can beat any PC world price the difference is we use decent motherboards and graphics cards, which will be upgradeable for years,

    anyway enough moaning Champ 4 is mainly dependant on CPU power so you wont have any probs running it
     
  18. HMHB

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    I know what you mean about selling good quality components but I would be wary if anyone says they will be upgradable for years as that is never the case. Most motherboards have an upper limit on the cpu speed they can run and that is usually surpassed within a year and soon after the lower spec CPUs become unavailable. It's all a plot by Intel/AMD/MOBO manufacturers to make you think you are buying upgradability for years.
     
  19. paiger

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    Thats true but at least if you have a decent case and PSU to start with, you can upgrade gradually. I have had the same high quality case for many years and it's seen many new motherboards, CPU's, VGA cards etc. For example, some mobo's have onboard VGA and no AGP slot. That means when you want to upgrade the graphics, you are looking at a new motherboard as well.

    I have seen cases with the mobo built in with not an ATX sticker in sight. Still, like the man says, put a badge on the front with some big numbers and nobody cares.
     
  20. james.miller

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    too true.

    xp1700 - £42
    softmodded r9500 - £130
    abit nf7-s -£91
    512mb ddr333 - £50
    slk-800 £44
    maxtor 80gb hdd - £62
    case and psu - £27
    52x liteon cdr - £25
    21inch sony trintron - £130


    thats £601 for a pc thats about,oooh 10x faster, mabey more? Big companies really rip people off.
     
  21. Hawklord

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    I built my first pc some months back and was suprised how easy it actually was to do(once you know what's compatable with what.) I think as long as you buy a decent case and psu thats a good bases to start with. The cost of motherboards and memory etc have come down quite considerably and you can buy a half decent graphics card for around £120.
    I can understand why ppl just like to buy a new box from the likes of pcworld etc but it makes me angry that they tend to sell ppl a box that's not suitable for the job intended.
    With a little bit of research and time you can build yourself a pc to the spec required without taking someones word for it that it will do all of the things required of it. Building it yourself also lifts some of the myths the IT industry have you belive that you have to be very technically minded. It also gives your the confiedence to fix things your self if anything goes wrong and you don't have to pay an over inflated warrenty either.

    just my 2p
     
  22. HMHB

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    Don't forget to add in the price of Windows to the pricelist above.

    I've always built my own as I'm in the trade - but a word of warning..... If you buy components from a lot of different sources and the thing won't boot up when you've put everything together you have to be certain which component is at fault. If a faulty power supply blows something on the motherboard from a different supplier there may also be problems. If I build my own again I will try to source all the components from the same supplier.
     
  23. sifowler

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    Yep, I second this. When I built my PC I used about 4 separate suppliers and when I got everything put together it kept blue screening.

    I searched the Internet for possible solutions and everyone had different answers - it could be the PSU, the M/B, the memory, old drivers etc etc. In the end it was a bad memory stick. Luckily Novatech were very good and exchanged the memory without issue, but it could have been a nightmare to sort out.
     

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