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Nobody wants to solve my BT line problem!

pjwy

Standard Member
First off,I have IDNET who are usually pretty good.

Unfortunately over last few months my download speeds have been hovering around 340 kbps whereas I should be capable of up 8mb according to BT tests done on my line.

However,my ISP reckon that my line is capable of of a maximum of 572kbps and this borne out by the speed tests I've done myself.

IDNET say there is nothing they can do and no way can I get a better download speed than 572kbps.

I am only 3kms from the exchange near Bradford.

Having taken the matter up with BT,they have tested the phone line which serves only 1 telephone/fax set and my broadband and they say there is NO problem at all with the line.

.All other phones in house are a different line.The interior wiring from master socket to exit through outside wall is only 2 metres maximum.

On advice from ISP I have changed router (new Netgear) and filter and still no improvement...btw I'm plugged directly into the test socket as well!

So I can make no progress with either ISP nor BT as neither say they can help me further.

My thoughts are that the wiring from the master socket to the pole ( 20metres away) is old and faulty (ISP say noise on line) but does'nt cause a detectable phone line fault so BT cant do anything!

I'm completely frustrated by the situation which is made worse by my lack of technical knowledge on this subject!

Any chance anyone can throw any light on what I can do now? How do I get someone from BT to check the wiring since they are'nt my broadband supplier and wont even admit there's a problem?:confused:

Thanks in advance for any assistance.
 

Red55555555

Novice Member
You should never mess with the bt master socket it is illegal AFAIK, however check the master socket, there should be 5 wires coming into the house but only 2 are needed, i forget which ones, you will have to google it & make sure which colour wires are needed (should only be 2 connected in master socket).Make sure the ring wire is not connected as that can cause interference on the line., other than that i cannot suggest anything else.
 

pjwy

Standard Member
Thank you...in my master socket I dont see any wires like you mention.I've seen a diagram on Google showing the five wires where only 2 are needed but on mine it's not the same.This socket was originally put in as a dedicated internet line in the dial up days.
I'm using the master socket only on advice from ISP to eliminate any interior wiring probs I suppose.
I just want to know how to get BT to admit there's a problem with the line without having to switch to BT internet as an ISP!
 

walleee

Active Member
have you asked neighbours what their speeds are? Thats usually a good indication as to wether or not it's a local (as in only you) issue.

Multiple ISPs told my mum the fastest we could get at home was 512k, after two months of being home from uni and realising how unbearable it was I put some pressure on them asking why my neighbour on BT broadband was getting 20mb, initially they asked if it was fibre optic but then when I told them it wasn't we had a BT engineer out in 2 hours (literally, couldn't believe it!) who replaced the line between the house and the pole. Then the problem still existed so it was escalated, the following day speeds were up to what I had originally expected from a 8mb connection....

You should tell your isp your going to leave if BT is quoting a higher speed than your getting, its down to the ISP to hassle BT and get them to fix it, as o2 did in my case.

edit: its not illegal to use the test socket of the phone line, why would it be there otherwise? Its for testing and ensuring that the wiring in the house isn't affecting anything. ISP's will ask you to use it when running diagnostics...
 

pjwy

Standard Member
have you asked neighbours what their speeds are? Thats usually a good indication as to wether or not it's a local (as in only you) issue.

Multiple ISPs told my mum the fastest we could get at home was 512k, after two months of being home from uni and realising how unbearable it was I put some pressure on them asking why my neighbour on BT broadband was getting 20mb, initially they asked if it was fibre optic but then when I told them it wasn't we had a BT engineer out in 2 hours (literally, couldn't believe it!) who replaced the line between the house and the pole. Then the problem still existed so it was escalated, the following day speeds were up to what I had originally expected from a 8mb connection....

You should tell your isp your going to leave if BT is quoting a higher speed than your getting, its down to the ISP to hassle BT and get them to fix it, as o2 did in my case.

edit: its not illegal to use the test socket of the phone line, why would it be there otherwise? Its for testing and ensuring that the wiring in the house isn't affecting anything. ISP's will ask you to use it when running diagnostics...
The only guy I know well enough to ask cancelled his internet some time ago for economic reasons and the other two neighbours are 84 and 95 years old so dont use it! So I dont have much to go by.

I did hassle Idnet my ISP though and they say they can't do any more about it because the line wont allow speeds of more than 572 kbps and only BT can fix the line.They told me the fault was between my house and the pole and each house has it's own line anyway so others nearby would'nt neccessarily be affected if mine was worn out.

As for leaving my current ISP,I've told them they should be fighting my corner with BT instead of fobbing me off and have told them I'm going to leave them because of it...they just accepted it!

When I tackled BT faults on 151 they said because their was no apparent fault on phone line all must be OK..they did'nt want to know about the broadband problem because they were'nt the ISP !

I pay £28 per month to IDNET and getting a connection which is worse than dial up!

Surely someone must be responsible.
 

beerhunter

Novice Member
When I tackled BT faults on 151 they said because their was no apparent fault on phone line all must be OK..they did'nt want to know about the broadband problem because they were'nt the ISP !
First of all that is absolutely the case. Would you expect the BBC? to help you out with problems you were having with Sky? I assume that BT are your voice supplier. That being case they have checked that and found no problem - end of their involvement.

Next the technical bit. The equipment at the exchange can run at up to 8 mb/s but the actuarial speed is dependent on the length and quality of the line between your promises and the local exchange.

So to go forward, how are you measuring your Speed?

BTW ignore post #2 completely. Especially, leave the incoming wires alone unless you want a big bill if you screw up.
 
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pjwy

Standard Member
First of all that is absolutely the case. Would you expect the BBC? to help you out with problems you were having with Sky? I assume that BT are your voice supplier. That being case they have checked that and found no problem - end of their involvement.

Next the technical bit. The equipment at the exchange can run at up to 8 mb/s but the actuarial speed is dependent on the length and quality of the line between your promises and the local exchange.

So to go forward, how are you measuring your Speed?

BTW ignore post #2 completely. Especially, leave the incoming wires alone unless you want a biog bill if you screw up.

HI,thanks for reply.

I take your point about BT and your example of BBC and Sky..this is something I could'nt get my head round.What I did wonder though is,would I get BT involved with the pole to house cable problem ( I think this is the route of it) if I switched to BT broadband which is something I've considered anyway? alternatively,would the likes of BE or Sky who rent the lines pay more attention to capability of the line for broadband?

As regards the speed tests,I ran the BT one and it came up with 249Kbps d/load speed and indicated my DSL connection rate for the line 572 kbps! This was borne out by a test which IDNET did as well.IDNET themselves say that 572kbps is the MAX I can ever get through this phone line in anarea where I'm only about 3kms from the exchange..not out in the sticks.

In addition other random speed tests I've done through other test sites come up with speeds between 25-340 kbps.
 

beerhunter

Novice Member
,would I get BT involved with the pole to house cable problem
No. It would still, be your ISP's problem. If cabling needs fixing, they call Openreach - a BT owned company that works for ALL ISPs. You can't actually talk to Openreach yourself.

3kms isn't far for a decent ADSL signal BUT remember, telephone cable aren't routed as the crow flies. They tend to follow roads and can take some quite tortuous routes -which can't be fixed. However, there may be some ratty joints in the cable - which can. You need to persuade your ISP to get Openreach involved. They won't like doing it because it costs them money so you may need to be firm.

BTW. I have assumed that the Master Socket concerned has NO extension cabling running from it. You may want to confirm that because it can sometimes make an enormous difference in speed.
 

pjwy

Standard Member
No. It would still, be your ISP's problem. If cabling needs fixing, they call Openreach - a BT owned company that works for ALL ISPs. You can't actually talk to Openreach yourself.

3kms isn't far for a decent ADSL signal BUT remember, telephone cable aren't routed as the crow flies. They tend to follow roads and can take some quite tortuous routes -which can't be fixed. However, there may be some ratty joints in the cable - which can. You need to persuade your ISP to get Openreach involved. They won't like doing it because it costs them money so you may need to be firm.

BTW. I have assumed that the Master Socket concerned has NO extension cabling running from it. You may want to confirm that because it can sometimes make an enormous difference in speed.
Well..I was thinking BT Broadband as ISP = BT so they might make an effort to fix the problem so I can receive a sensible speed.Is it not the same company ( or group ) ?

I have already had a go at IDNET for not hassling BT on my behalf..and we are not on good terms at the moment but I suppose I can ask the question.I've already warned them I'm leaving though so we will see what happens.

There are no extensions from the master socket at all..just the router/filter are plugged in there.This socket was installed about 12 or more years ago so my then dial up did'nt affect my home telephone line..so I have in fact two lines.

The other line which is telephone only does have extensions such as the Sky TV line has nothing to do with my current problem.

Worth mentioning perhaps though is,there is a smal junction box thingy on the wall outside,the little door of which was open to the elements with wires showing,until I shut it the other day.It's not helped the problem though.

Thank you for your time and trouble thus far..much appreciated.
 

beerhunter

Novice Member
1. Well..I was thinking BT Broadband as ISP = BT so they might make an effort to fix the problem so I can receive a sensible speed.Is it not the same company ( or group ) ?

2. Worth mentioning perhaps though is,there is a smal junction box thingy on the wall outside,the little door of which was open to the elements with wires showing,until I shut it the other day.It's not helped the problem though.
1. Openreach are not allowed by the regulator to show favouritism to ANY ISP

2. That is exactly where corrosion will affect joints and cause problems.
 

pjwy

Standard Member
On point 2 then,perhaps the damage has been done already...shutting the door (on the junction box) when the horse has bolted sprrings to mind !

Will look into this further then..perhaps legitimate grounds to get the BT engineer out since their apparatus appears to be damaged?

Since my last post I tackled ISP on the contacting Openreach issue and they neatly sidestepped it by replying that they could ask BT to change the service to a fixed line rate of 512k to help speed issues.What you make of this?

Thanks again.
 

beerhunter

Novice Member
1. On point 2 then,perhaps the damage has been done already...shutting the door (on the junction box) when the horse has bolted sprrings to mind !

Since my last post I tackled ISP on the contacting Openreach issue and they neatly sidestepped it by replying that they could ask BT to change the service to a fixed line rate of 512k to help speed issues.What you make of this?

Thanks again.
1. Spot on - the horse has left the building

2. They would say that wouldn't they. In my opinion, they are trying to avoid calling Openreach.

I would share the open junction box with them and that you need Openreach to check the connections because you have taken advice and been informed that bad joints can and do affect ADSL speed whilst not having any discernible effect on the voice circuit.

Keep in you back pocket (but share at the appropriate time) that if they don't get their arse into gear you will leave! However, they may take you up on that if they are REALLY averse to calling Openreach. Its kinda like a Arab Market - when you pretend to walk away, you must be prepared to really walk away.
 
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pjwy

Standard Member
1. Spot on - the horse has left the building

2. They would say that wouldn't they. In my opinion, they are trying to avoid calling Openreach.

I would share the open junction box with them and that you need Openreach to check the connections because you have taken advice and been informed that bad joints can and do affect ADSL speed whilst not having any discernible effect on the voice circuit.

Keep in you back pocket (but share at the appropriate time) that if they don't get their arse into gear you will leave! However, they may take you up on that if they are REALLY averse to calling Openreach. Its kinda like a Arab Market - when you pretend to walk away, you must be prepared to really walk away.
I actually rang BT 151 last night to report the j/box and they told me I had to contact Openreach and gave me an out of hours number.I rang the number and got through to a bathroom warehouse working late! So,I went back to BT151 to check the number thinking i might have mis-dialled and called it again..same result bathroom warehouse ! So..went back a third time and got same lady at BT151 who checked again to say she'd given me the wrong number after all!

Anyway,I left it till this morning to ring Openreach and got through to a call centre in India and was informed that,since it was inside my boundary,it was not their problem and I should revert to BT! So I go back to BT and they at first tell me Openreach should have dealt with it but by this time I'd had enough and gave the poor guy an earful...result is I'm waiting a call today from an engineer who will hopefully fix the said junction box.

Sorry for the long screed :boring:but I really had to tell someone!

Hope you are still with me? As far as IDNET are concerned they know bridges are burned now and I'll likely be off and I get the impression they'll be glad to see the back of me so there's no way they are going to go through the Openreach route on my behalf imho.

One thing I cant figure is that the BT speed test I do shows that the max possible d/load speed on this line is 572kbps ( I wish I could even get that!)

Will update in due course and thank you again for your interest.
 

beerhunter

Novice Member
I'm really surprised that BT told you to call Openreach. As you found out they won't talk to you. (The exception being lines down across roads and other hazards.)

As to the speed conundrum, if you post the results from here: Test Result , I'll translate them for you.

As soon as the junction box is fixed, do the test again and post the results.
 

pjwy

Standard Member
Hi Beerhunter..here's what I have from test just now:




FAQ


Test1 comprises of two tests

1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.

Download Speed
242 Kbps

0 Kbps 500 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

Download speedachieved during the test was - 242 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 100-500 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :572 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 516 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 350 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 8.89:22.47:68.64 (SBE:NBE:pBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

The results of this test will vary depending on the way your ISP has decided to use these traffic classes.

2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.

Upload Speed
411 Kbps

0 Kbps 516 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

>Upload speed achieved during the test was - 411 Kbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 516 Kbps


We were unable to identify any performance problem with your service at this time.
It is possible that any problem you are currently, or had previously experienced may have been caused by traffic congestion on the Internet or by the server you were accessing responding slowly.
If you continue to encounter a problem with a specific server, please contact the administrator of that server in the first instance.

Please visit FAQ section if you are unable To understand the test results.






Notes:
The Download Speed is the average rate that was achieved during this test.

Notes:
Your line is configured to the maximum rate that it can support or at your chosen fixed rate, this is known as the line rate and would be viewed through your CPE software or in your router configuration.

Your IP profile is always less than the line rate and is normal on any network.

The Upstream Test rate figure quoted will always be smaller than the assured rate profile. This is because in order for the throughput to reach its destination, it requires an overhead which explains the difference between the two.


Notes:
If your download speed lies in this range then your connection seems to be working fine.

Notes:
The Download Speed is the average rate that was achieved during this test.

Notes:
Your line is configured to the maximum rate that it can support or at your chosen fixed rate, this is known as the line rate and would be viewed through your CPE software or in your router configuration.

Your IP profile is always less than the line rate and is normal on any network.
 

beerhunter

Novice Member
1. Your DSL Connection Rate :572 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM)

2. IP Profile for your line is - 350 Kbps
1. That is the speed at which the modem in your router and the DSLAM at the excahnge are 'talking', in raw bits per second (b/s).

2. That is the maximum speed that date will actually be sent down the line and is set lower than the DSL Rate for stability's sake. In other words that is a fast as you can actually go.

The interesting bit is that you are on the cusp of a faster IP Profile. Just a few b/s faster DSL Rate will get you an IP Profile of 500 kb/s.

So we await the cleaning of the connectors with bated breath.
 

pjwy

Standard Member
Hi Beerhunter,
Update: Had a visit from an Openreach techno this morning and he fixed the plastic junction box on outside wall but told me the second line I use for the broadband did'nt do through there anyway.

He very kindly though said he'd check out my problems by running a test on my broadband line which is in a small upstairs office in the house..also checked the interior wiring (only a couple of metres) and found behind a cupboard a small box through which the wiring passed called an RF2 (a radio interference suppressor) which he said would have been there from the dial-up days.He removed and bypassed this in a couple of minutes and re-tested my line.

Before removal of the RF2 the speed test showed a max achievable of five hundred and some but AFTER removal it shot up to very much higher than that...but the actual speed still unchanged from previously!

He then spoke to my ISP support and a heated 'discussion' followed regarding my speed being capped which the ISP hotly denied! I spoke myself with ISP support and they asked me to see how it improves over next 10 days or so.

My opinion..and that of the techno ..is that the ISP had'nt wanted to get involved with any faults with Openreach because they would get a bill and had capped my speed at 512k or thereabouts giving me much lower than that in actual speed.We both figured that any cap would be now magically removed and speeds should improve over a period of time as exchange equipment adjusts.

Just done identical speed test as the other day and posted results below so things might be on the up.

I'd be interested to hear your views and sincerely thank you for your interest and guidance over the last week or so.



FAQ


Test1 comprises of two tests

1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.

Download Speed
10131 Kbps

0 Kbps 21000 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

Download speedachieved during the test was - 10131 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 4000-21000 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :10940 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 780 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 9000 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 18.39:23.54:58.08 (SBE:NBE:pBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

The results of this test will vary depending on the way your ISP has decided to use these traffic classes.

2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.

Upload Speed
623 Kbps

0 Kbps 780 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

>Upload speed achieved during the test was - 623 Kbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 780 Kbps


We were unable to identify any performance problem with your service at this time.
It is possible that any problem you are currently, or had previously experienced may have been caused by traffic congestion on the Internet or by the server you were accessing responding slowly.
If you continue to encounter a problem with a specific server, please contact the administrator of that server in the first instance.

Please visit FAQ section if you are unable To understand the test results.






Notes:
The Download Speed is the average rate that was achieved during this test.

Notes:
Your line is configured to the maximum rate that it can support or at your chosen fixed rate, this is known as the line rate and would be viewed through your CPE software or in your router configuration.

Your IP profile is always less than the line rate and is normal on any network.

The Upstream Test rate figure quoted will always be smaller than the assured rate profile. This is because in order for the throughput to reach its destination, it requires an overhead which explains the difference between the two.


Notes:
If your download speed lies in this range then your connection seems to be working fine.

Notes:
The Download Speed is the average rate that was achieved during this test.

Notes:
Your line is configured to the maximum rate that it can support or at your chosen fixed rate, this is known as the line rate and would be viewed through your CPE software or in your router configuration.

Your IP profile is always less than the line rate and is normal on any network.
 

beerhunter

Novice Member
He then spoke to my ISP support and a heated 'discussion' followed regarding my speed being capped which the ISP hotly denied!

My opinion..and that of the techno ..is that the ISP had'nt wanted to get involved with any faults with Openreach because they would get a bill and had capped my speed at 512k or thereabouts giving me much lower than that in actual speed.We both figured that any cap would be now magically removed and speeds should improve over a period of time as exchange equipment adjusts.

Your DSL Connection Rate :10940 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 780 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 9000 Kbps
Sorry but you are both wrong.

You were not capped by tour ISP at any time. (I am afraid that the BT engineer(?) doesn't understand the product that he supporting.)

You had a low IP Profile because you had a low DSL rate caused by that filter. Removing a fault (in this case the filter) instantly improves the DSL Rate but the IP profile needs time to recover (up to three days).

Your current IP Profle is in line with your DSL Rate and so it HAS recovered as it should.

Enjoy your new found speed. :)
 

pjwy

Standard Member
Ah well..I certainly hope the speed continues to improve in the next days.

I still am annoyed though with the ISP for not getting in touch with Openreach on my behalf and was lucky really to find a technician who went out of his way to spot the problem.

I'm considering protesting by migrating to BE as I've seen good reports on them ..do you consider them to be OK?
 

beerhunter

Novice Member
Ah well..I certainly hope the speed continues to improve in the next days.
It is extremely unlikely.

What is wrong with 10940 kb/s? It is TWENTY times faster than you were getting and most of the country would kill for that speed.
 

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