No More "IntelliVolume" Setting on New Onkyos?

[IntelliVolume]

Looks like we're going to need a new AVR sooner rather than later, being that it seems as though the HDMI OUT of my trusty old Onkyo TX-SR605 has given up the ghost (the OSD for the menu selections doesn't seem to want to even pop up anymore on our Samsung display). Because I need to check AVR settings from time to time, I can't really be without an OSD, so we're looking at this as an opportunity to upgrade to a new amp with Dolby Atmos and DTS:X support.

I'd like to stick to the Onkyo family, but I am now reading about certain things the new units don't have anymore compared to the older ones; I had my eye on the RZ50, but that's going to be out of budget, so it's probably going to come down to something like the NR6100 or 7100 -- regardless, from what I am seeing, Onkyo (I guess ever since their acquisition after their near-demise) dropped the intuitive "IntelliVolume" feature that allowed you to set a specific preamp gain for each input, almost acting like a power amp's input sensitivity control (thus sources connected to the amp could sound louder at lower volume levels). This was something I found a great use for, but I am dismayed to hear that it has been discontinued in the new AVRs.

Can anyone confirm if this is true?

 

[IntelliVolume]

Bumping this...

Also learned that the new Onkyos don't offer the "Listening Mode Preset" feature anymore, either, which is truly disappointing, as it enabled you to set different ways for the amp to deal with certain signals. For example, you could set the amp to use Pro Logic II Movie mode when it receives a two-channel Dolby Digital signal, and you could also have it steer mono soundtracks into the center, where they belong.

Can anyone confirm if this is so? I may need to look to another brand after all...

 

[brucebarrera]

I own a TX-NR6100 and can confirm that there's no Intellivolume setting anymore...bummer!

 

[p28nay]

I use intellivolume on my RZ830 to bump up the volume at lower levels - a useful feature.

I really hope Onkyo does find a way to get back into the UK market. I don't think there are many AVRs that you can buy new today has a sound signature like what the Onkyo is known for - punchy and aggressive.

 

[IntelliVolume]

I own a TX-NR6100 and can confirm that there's no Intellivolume setting anymore...bummer!

Yup. Found out via another site. Really sucks, and is almost a make-it-or-break-it thing for my next AV amp.

I understand that the Denons have this adjustment feature, so I may look to them for my next purchase. What's more, the new Onkyos, I understand, aren't even coming with displays that show the surround mode in use (i.e. DTS-HD MA, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Atmos) at the same time it shows the input name, which is another important feature to me because I like to know if the AVR is receiving and processing the proper bitstreamed signal from my disc player.

So, for example, the Onkyo I have now shows this:

You can see the "DVD" (input in use) and "DTS-HD MSTR" (sound mode in use)...

And the new Onkyos display this:

Or

But they can't display BOTH the input name AND sound mode at the same time -- you have to press a button on the remote to confirm one or the other, or to have either or on the screen at a time.

Absolutely RIDICULOUS feature they left off these new units, most likely because of all the processing power that's required for the new height formats; it's another reason I may buy a Denon next.

 

[IntelliVolume]

I use intellivolume on my RZ830 to bump up the volume at lower levels - a useful feature.

I really hope Onkyo does find a way to get back into the UK market. I don't think there are many AVRs that you can buy new today has a sound signature like what the Onkyo is known for - punchy and aggressive.

Could not agree more about the Onkyo sound -- it's what brought me back to the brand again and again.

Unfortunately, I may need to move on to a Denon (my second choice for an amp) because of the IntelliVolume omission as well as the display issue I documented above. I use the IntelliVolume very much the same way you do -- to bump up the source volume so that I don't have to crank it to get any sound out of the amp. This is much like the old "sensitivity control" buttons/knobs that used to be on power amps, allowing you to raise the gain and sensitivity of the power output -- only on the Onkyos, it was done at a preamp level via IntelliVolume.

As I stated above, the Denons have this "source level adjustment" feature that functions like Onkyo's IntelliVolume, and their AVRs also boast front panel displays that show the source in use AND the sound mode simultaneously.

 

[p28nay]

Could not agree more about the Onkyo sound -- it's what brought me back to the brand again and again.

Unfortunately, I may need to move on to a Denon (my second choice for an amp) because of the IntelliVolume omission as well as the display issue I documented above. I use the IntelliVolume very much the same way you do -- to bump up the source volume so that I don't have to crank it to get any sound out of the amp. This is much like the old "sensitivity control" buttons/knobs that used to be on power amps, allowing you to raise the gain and sensitivity of the power output -- only on the Onkyos, it was done at a preamp level via IntelliVolume.

As I stated above, the Denons have this "source level adjustment" feature that functions like Onkyo's IntelliVolume, and their AVRs also boast front panel displays that show the source in use AND the sound mode simultaneously.

From my personal experience recently with using Denon is I would probably advise against it especially if you enjoy the Onkyo sound signature.

Before I got my Onkyo RZ830 which I only bought 2 weeks ago from this forum I had a Denon x3700. I really didn't like the sound on that model at all both for movies and music and I ended up returning that after a few days and paid an extra £500 and both the Denon x4700 which I was generally happy with until two models I had both failed within a couple of weeks of owning ended up getting a refund. That was when the Onkyo popped up which I bought and was thrilled with its performance due to Onkyo's sound signature compared to the Denon. For me, it was pretty much night and day difference by having the Onkyo in terms of sound signature where the Denon really lacked punch and presence. The Denon's does have really good features with its smartphone app and as you say on its display you can see the input source as well as what audio format it is playing all on the display whereas you can't on the Onkyo, but I guess I could live with that and especially as I saved myself £900 and the fact I prefer the way the Onkyo's sound.

If however, you do like Denon's sound signature, then I think you will be very happy with it.

 

[IntelliVolume]

From my personal experience recently with using Denon is I would probably advise against it especially if you enjoy the Onkyo sound signature.

Before I got my Onkyo RZ830 which I only bought 2 weeks ago from this forum I had a Denon x3700. I really didn't like the sound on that model at all both for movies and music and I ended up returning that after a few days and paid an extra £500 and both the Denon x4700 which I was generally happy with until two models I had both failed within a couple of weeks of owning ended up getting a refund. That was when the Onkyo popped up which I bought and was thrilled with its performance due to Onkyo's sound signature compared to the Denon. For me, it was pretty much night and day difference by having the Onkyo in terms of sound signature where the Denon really lacked punch and presence. The Denon's does have really good features with its smartphone app and as you say on its display you can see the input source as well as what audio format it is playing all on the display whereas you can't on the Onkyo, but I guess I could live with that and especially as I saved myself £900 and the fact I prefer the way the Onkyo's sound.

If however, you do like Denon's sound signature, then I think you will be very happy with it.

Very interesting observations; thanks for your input about it...

I never owned a Denon, amazingly, but I have heard, since I've been involved in the home cinema hobby, that when it comes to AV amps/receivers, you want either an Onkyo or Denon. Next to the Onks, I like the Denons' aesthetics and front panel/knob layouts (something that's important to me), especially compared to other modern AVRs like the Marantzes (with those horrid porthole screens on front) and the Yamahas (with those terrible massive volume knobs in the center of the panel...what were they thinking with that?).

Here's the thing, though: I don't use auto setup routines or onboard EQ settings with my receivers, instead bypassing the room correction and adjusting trim levels, distances and crossovers myself. This has always enabled me to achieve a punchy, personalized sound from my systems -- so if you have been using your receivers with room correction, it may be the reason something sounded "off" to you about the Denons; I generally run my systems so that I experience all my speakers have to offer without EQ (I know, I know...there are those who will say I'm not really experiencing all my speakers have to offer BECAUSE I'm not using EQ, but I have never found a need for it in my rooms), with all channels balanced and a bit of a raised trim on the center channel for dialogue intelligibility.

Also -- there are some out there who say it's complete nonsense when we say things like "I don't like the Denon (or Onkyo) 'house sound'," as this is considered blasphemy because hardcore enthusiasts don't think there is any difference in sound from amp to amp. I'm not saying that's what you should adhere to, at all -- I'm just pointing out the possibility that there is some truth to that, and maybe I won't be able to sense a "lack of punchiness" compared to the Onk if I went with the Denon...

All of that being said, I will take your insights to heart when I begin deciding on a new AVR; my TX-SR605 from circa 2007 or so is beginning to show signs of failure in the HDMI out port (which I use to check the receiver's settings on my screen) though it's still running great in all other aspects. I may need to get a new amp sooner rather than later because I need that HDMI out for the onscreen menus (plus, the new AVR would keep me future-proofed, at least for now, because it would have the Atmos/DTS:X support).

 

[brucebarrera]

Could not agree more about the Onkyo sound -- it's what brought me back to the brand again and again.

Unfortunately, I may need to move on to a Denon (my second choice for an amp) because of the IntelliVolume omission as well as the display issue I documented above. I use the IntelliVolume very much the same way you do -- to bump up the source volume so that I don't have to crank it to get any sound out of the amp. This is much like the old "sensitivity control" buttons/knobs that used to be on power amps, allowing you to raise the gain and sensitivity of the power output -- only on the Onkyos, it was done at a preamp level via IntelliVolume.

As I stated above, the Denons have this "source level adjustment" feature that functions like Onkyo's IntelliVolume, and their AVRs also boast front panel displays that show the source in use AND the sound mode simultaneously.

I just bought the TX-NR6100 and still testing it (I still can return it if I don't like) and what would be the Denon equivalent with the same set of features? (8k 60fps or 4k 120fps, embedded Alexa support, Spotify, Atmos support, same amount of channels, etc) ? Are the Denon's sound better or worse than the Onkyo's in your opinion?

 

[p28nay]

Very interesting observations; thanks for your input about it...

I never owned a Denon, amazingly, but I have heard, since I've been involved in the home cinema hobby, that when it comes to AV amps/receivers, you want either an Onkyo or Denon. Next to the Onks, I like the Denons' aesthetics and front panel/knob layouts (something that's important to me), especially compared to other modern AVRs like the Marantzes (with those horrid porthole screens on front) and the Yamahas (with those terrible massive volume knobs in the center of the panel...what were they thinking with that?).

Here's the thing, though: I don't use auto setup routines or onboard EQ settings with my receivers, instead bypassing the room correction and adjusting trim levels, distances and crossovers myself. This has always enabled me to achieve a punchy, personalized sound from my systems -- so if you have been using your receivers with room correction, it may be the reason something sounded "off" to you about the Denons; I generally run my systems so that I experience all my speakers have to offer without EQ (I know, I know...there are those who will say I'm not really experiencing all my speakers have to offer BECAUSE I'm not using EQ, but I have never found a need for it in my rooms), with all channels balanced and a bit of a raised trim on the center channel for dialogue intelligibility.

Also -- there are some out there who say it's complete nonsense when we say things like "I don't like the Denon (or Onkyo) 'house sound'," as this is considered blasphemy because hardcore enthusiasts don't think there is any difference in sound from amp to amp. I'm not saying that's what you should adhere to, at all -- I'm just pointing out the possibility that there is some truth to that, and maybe I won't be able to sense a "lack of punchiness" compared to the Onk if I went with the Denon...

All of that being said, I will take your insights to heart when I begin deciding on a new AVR; my TX-SR605 from circa 2007 or so is beginning to show signs of failure in the HDMI out port (which I use to check the receiver's settings on my screen) though it's still running great in all other aspects. I may need to get a new amp sooner rather than later because I need that HDMI out for the onscreen menus (plus, the new AVR would keep me future-proofed, at least for now, because it would have the Atmos/DTS:X support).

That's a really good read.

I don't use the Onkyo RoomEQ (AccuEQ) in my house. I think it sounds perfectly well without it and like you have done set the crossovers/distances/levels myself. However, with the two Denons I had (x3700 & x4700) from my experience I couldn't get them both to sound well at all without doing any of the Auddessy room eq process. Even with that enabled I still had to turn features like Dynamic EQ on to give it that extra punch and tone I desire but still I don't think it compares well to the Onkyo. I think that is because I came from owning a Sony and they were known to be punchy and aggressive like the Onkyo's. Another thing that annoyed me with the Denon was once you've set everything with Auddessy you can't adjust the tonal balance afterwards such as adding extra bass or treble to your speakers. With the Onkyo, you can tweak the bass and treble to your liking with or without room eq. Nice to have the added options to tweak things to your liking.

I don't know what the new Yamaha's are like in terms of sound and performance so I couldn't really speak but from what I hear they are supposed to have a bit more of an aggressive tone. I agree they are not the most nice looking AVR. Denon wins on that.

Either way, I hope you manage to find something suitable. If you do opt for the Denon, I'd be interested to hear your feedback on how you get on

 

[IntelliVolume]

I just bought the TX-NR6100 and still testing it (I still can return it if I don't like) and what would be the Denon equivalent with the same set of features? (8k 60fps or 4k 120fps, embedded Alexa support, Spotify, Atmos support, same amount of channels, etc) ? Are the Denon's sound better or worse than the Onkyo's in your opinion?

I wish I could help but I never personally ran a Denon in any of my setups; I am basing my preference for them on other factors at the moment...

 

[IntelliVolume]

That's a really good read.

I don't use the Onkyo RoomEQ (AccuEQ) in my house. I think it sounds perfectly well without it and like you have done set the crossovers/distances/levels myself. However, with the two Denons I had (x3700 & x4700) from my experience I couldn't get them both to sound well at all without doing any of the Auddessy room eq process. Even with that enabled I still had to turn features like Dynamic EQ on to give it that extra punch and tone I desire but still I don't think it compares well to the Onkyo. I think that is because I came from owning a Sony and they were known to be punchy and aggressive like the Onkyo's. Another thing that annoyed me with the Denon was once you've set everything with Auddessy you can't adjust the tonal balance afterwards such as adding extra bass or treble to your speakers. With the Onkyo, you can tweak the bass and treble to your liking with or without room eq. Nice to have the added options to tweak things to your liking.

I don't know what the new Yamaha's are like in terms of sound and performance so I couldn't really speak but from what I hear they are supposed to have a bit more of an aggressive tone. I agree they are not the most nice looking AVR. Denon wins on that.

Either way, I hope you manage to find something suitable. If you do opt for the Denon, I'd be interested to hear your feedback on how you get on

Thanks mate -- I will respond to this in detail as soon as I can!

 

[dlaloum]

Also -- there are some out there who say it's complete nonsense when we say things like "I don't like the Denon (or Onkyo) 'house sound'," as this is considered blasphemy because hardcore enthusiasts don't think there is any difference in sound from amp to amp. I'm not saying that's what you should adhere to, at all -- I'm just pointing out the possibility that there is some truth to that, and maybe I won't be able to sense a "lack of punchiness" compared to the Onk if I went with the Denon...

My own experiences with Audyssey MuteqXT32 on an Integra/Onkyo - led to my using manual adjustment and leaving well alone...

However, I believe that is due to the silly "BBC dip" that Audyssey built into their EQ.... - so I am looking forward to trying out DIRAC on the new models.

Also the old models, left you with the "like it or leave it" Audyssey RoomEQ calibration.

Current models from Denon/Marantz and Onkyo/Pioneer/Integra come with apps that allow you to tailor the room EQ response curve to your preferences - and or limit where the RoomEQ is applied, and where it isn't (based on frequency limits... apply only above or below a certain frequency)

This could well be a game changer.... (or not, I won't know till I try it)

With regards to Onk vs Denon "house sound" - the base DAC's and Power amps - run in "direct" modes (without EQ etc...) should sound identical, as long as the speakers are well within the amps performance envelope.... so with easy to drive speakers at volumes that keep the amps cruising easily - they should sound the same.... (basically any 2 amps where both are well within their performance envelope, should behave like straight wires with gain).

Where things get different, is once you start messing with surround, upmixing/downmixing, RoomEQ etc...

Although both brands start with very similar licenced code, they then tweak it.... and yeah - each brand definitely sounds different.

But with properly adjustable Room EQ target curves available now for all of the mid/upper range and up models - the "house sound" now belongs to the user, and not the manufacturer...

I am getting impatient to try this..... 6 months since I ordered an Integra.... still waiting....

 

[MagnumXL]

Horrid portholes? My Marantz 7012 looks totally sweet glowing in the dark in almost neon blue.... 7ch inputs as well (Hello Involve Audio Surround Master V3!).

I've got Carver Sonic Holography connected to the 2ch inputs and I can switch between all three with the input select switch (with a breakout extractor box connected between my Nvidia Shield and the AVR which provides analog RCA to the Carver and has optical output for the Surround Master). Sweet Sweet surround effects for 2-channel music that blow away crappy DSU and Neural X in that department (Auro-3D sounds decent for 2-channel, but still doesn't compare, IMO).

Yes indeed D&M have memory for different level settings for each input plus three more memory stores of your choice (e.g. I store optimal levels for row 1, row 2/3 and a compromise setting for when both sets of rows are in use). The 7012 even has alternate subwoofer settings on a switch (not sure why they removed that on the 7013 as it was quite handy...something about it confusing users, which is ridiculous. Clearly, they should have explained it better).

 

[dlaloum]

The current Onkyo's have an "Input Volume" setting, which defines how volume should be set for a particular source ....: p125 in the manual...

Select a value from "Last", "Min", "0.5" to "81.5" and "Max". (When "Volume Display" is set to "Absolute") • The volume level when the power is turned on is the value set for "Power On Volume". • To set the volume to the current volume, press the button of the input selector you wish to set for approx. 3 seconds.

So basically - you can set a specific volume level for each input (when "Volume Display" is set to "Absolute" ) - and when switching to that input, it will set the specified level as it's starting volume.

Sounds like a reasonable option to me?

 

[IntelliVolume]

The current Onkyo's have an "Input Volume" setting, which defines how volume should be set for a particular source ....: p125 in the manual...

Select a value from "Last", "Min", "0.5" to "81.5" and "Max". (When "Volume Display" is set to "Absolute") • The volume level when the power is turned on is the value set for "Power On Volume". • To set the volume to the current volume, press the button of the input selector you wish to set for approx. 3 seconds.

So basically - you can set a specific volume level for each input (when "Volume Display" is set to "Absolute" ) - and when switching to that input, it will set the specified level as it's starting volume.

Sounds like a reasonable option to me?

I know about the My Input Volume feature on the new Onks -- NOT the same thing as the way IntelliVolume worked.

 

[IntelliVolume]

Horrid portholes?

Yes, horrid porthole design.

All is subjective, especially with aesthetics, and that's my opinion.

 

[IntelliVolume]

My own experiences with Audyssey MuteqXT32 on an Integra/Onkyo - led to my using manual adjustment and leaving well alone...

However, I believe that is due to the silly "BBC dip" that Audyssey built into their EQ.... - so I am looking forward to trying out DIRAC on the new models.

Also the old models, left you with the "like it or leave it" Audyssey RoomEQ calibration.

Current models from Denon/Marantz and Onkyo/Pioneer/Integra come with apps that allow you to tailor the room EQ response curve to your preferences - and or limit where the RoomEQ is applied, and where it isn't (based on frequency limits... apply only above or below a certain frequency)

This could well be a game changer.... (or not, I won't know till I try it)

With regards to Onk vs Denon "house sound" - the base DAC's and Power amps - run in "direct" modes (without EQ etc...) should sound identical, as long as the speakers are well within the amps performance envelope.... so with easy to drive speakers at volumes that keep the amps cruising easily - they should sound the same.... (basically any 2 amps where both are well within their performance envelope, should behave like straight wires with gain).

Where things get different, is once you start messing with surround, upmixing/downmixing, RoomEQ etc...

Although both brands start with very similar licenced code, they then tweak it.... and yeah - each brand definitely sounds different.

But with properly adjustable Room EQ target curves available now for all of the mid/upper range and up models - the "house sound" now belongs to the user, and not the manufacturer...

I am getting impatient to try this..... 6 months since I ordered an Integra.... still waiting....

Thanks for your input here; the bolded was what I was trying to communicate in a previous post...

I suppose the only way I'll know if the Denon sound is comparable or not to the Onkyo sound is to try one out; not there yet, but it may be soon.

 

[IntelliVolume]

That's a really good read.

Hope I didn't bore you too much with that....

I don't use the Onkyo RoomEQ (AccuEQ) in my house. I think it sounds perfectly well without it and like you have done set the crossovers/distances/levels myself.

Indeed -- to me, if you're using quality speakers and have them set up as close to "properly" as possible for your room, I don't see a need for correction or EQ (ironically, I like graphic EQs in my two-channel hifi systems...go figure). Everything always sounded more "open" and "clear" to me without Audyssey on and with no equalizer settings engaged....you're basically hearing the soundtrack the way it was meant to be heard (assuming, of course, you haven't added bass or treble on the main channels or anything).

This is an interesting read, mate:

Learn how to calibrate your home theater speakers for sheer audio bliss

Make your home theater rumble just right with our manual speaker setup guide, a simple, step-by-step walkthrough to getting the most from your audio equipment without needing to rely on automatic calibration, which often can't produce the same stellar results as manual calibration.

www.digitaltrends.com

However, with the two Denons I had (x3700 & x4700) from my experience I couldn't get them both to sound well at all without doing any of the Auddessy room eq process. Even with that enabled I still had to turn features like Dynamic EQ on to give it that extra punch and tone I desire but still I don't think it compares well to the Onkyo.

Hmmmm....interesting. I guess I'd just have to set one up myself (a Denon) and see if I like the sound of it; I can always return it if I'm within the window.

I think that is because I came from owning a Sony and they were known to be punchy and aggressive like the Onkyo's.

To be perfectly honest, I never liked Sony receivers (or any of their audio equipment for that matter, save for some of their three-head cassette decks back in the day or perhaps a few of their car head units; in my mind, this company makes better TVs) -- the ones I've been exposed to were built super-cheaply, and I've seen many that weren't really abused by owners with their volume and other knobs dangling by wires as if they just didn't hold up.

Even today's ES series models -- while kind of sexy in terms of their flat faceplates and big, shiny control knobs -- seem cheap overall and just not worth the money. They make a really cheap stereo receiver now that seems to be all the rage amongst audiophiles on a serious budget, but when you dive deeper, you'll find reports of cheapness galore in this thing, complete with crappy spring-loaded speaker inputs on the back (the first sign a component is built like sh*te, for the most part -- and what keeps me far away from the Onkyo 5100 AVR).

Another thing that annoyed me with the Denon was once you've set everything with Auddessy you can't adjust the tonal balance afterwards such as adding extra bass or treble to your speakers. With the Onkyo, you can tweak the bass and treble to your liking with or without room eq. Nice to have the added options to tweak things to your liking.

Good to know; though I always run bass and treble at "0dB" on my surround AVRs (but I understand why you'd like to have it).

I don't know what the new Yamaha's are like in terms of sound and performance so I couldn't really speak but from what I hear they are supposed to have a bit more of an aggressive tone. I agree they are not the most nice looking AVR. Denon wins on that.

Yeah -- those Yamahas are an eyesore and remind me of the Onkyo integrated amps that used to have the massive volume knob in the center of the chassis (which i just think looks silly).

Either way, I hope you manage to find something suitable. If you do opt for the Denon, I'd be interested to hear your feedback on how you get on

Thanks mate -- we have to first evaluate whether we need a new AVR, as the problem with our current one seems to be intermittent. But I will keep you updated.