No more 4HD or all4 on Freesat?

I feel sorry for people who can only watch TV by satellite dish.

I wouldn't ... satellite is not Freesat .. .. on satellite ..eg multi sat / motorised ... you're talking about 1000s & 1000s of channels of every genre do something like just is hardly noticed.

UK Freesat or its epg/ platform is quite different but it's still an odd/ unexpected move.
 
Freesat appear to have put the EPG listing fees up - see link in post #23. Which sounds likely as other channels have gone recently but remain broadcast FTA.

Channel 4 is probably trying to do what Discovery/Eurosport did with Sky. :D
 
Any really cheap deals going with Sky whilst we wait for this all to blow over?
Or do I get a Freeview recorder?
 
I'm gutted. The only worthwhile channels on Freesat are the BBC, ITV and C4 ones...and it's obviously nice to watch in HD since we've all had the kit for 10 years or so, you can't go back to SD.

it's clearly ridiculous that C4, a not-for-profit organisation and Public broadcasting organisation can't make the budget . Equally as proposterous that Freesat can't recognise that a nfp organisation can't pay, but would rather lose the channel than re-structure it's pricing or whatever.

Everyone seems to lose in this scenario, except Sky, which makes it even worse.

i'm going to sit it out for a month and see if they can secure the channel again.
 
this has to be it,sky flexing its mussels,all about f1.

Maybe it's the increased competition with all the new channels on Freesat, especially the docu tv genre & those rumoured to be in the pipeline


&/or maybe sky trying to hit back against the rise of Freesat ... wiv a deal.

With all the new channels that have moved to Freesat from Sky or launched on Freesat. . this is an odd one.

Quite true, but it would still be to Sky's benefit if SSF1HD were to be the only channel on satellite to carry it in HD even now.

And it's exactly the sort of underhand tactic I'd expect from a company with a Murdoch on its board.

All typical Freesat fans paranoia and misinformation about Sky. Nothing to do with Sky but only due to the poor value that Freesat's EPG fees are to broadcasters per potential viewer compared to Sky's. Nothing about it going encrypted so should still be available in non freesat mode and to generic FTA receivers
 
All typical Freesat fans paranoia and misinformation about Sky. Nothing to do with Sky but only due to the poor value that Freesat's EPG fees are to broadcasters per potential viewer compared to Sky's.

How much are Freesat epg fees & sky's
 
How much are Freesat epg fees & sky's
I don't know increased prices but they were £30k for approx 2 million potential Freesat viewers and £75k for Sky's 10 million potential viewers plus Freesat from Sky viewers - shows which is better value for money.
 
Email from ch4

We are writing to let you know that, regrettably, the All 4 app and Channel 4 HD will not be available on the Freesat platform, from Thursday 22nd February.

If you'd still like to enjoy All 4, you can find us at our website, on our iOS and Android apps, or on Amazon Fire TV, Samsung Smart TV, Youview, Freeview, Roku, Now TV, Chromecast, Playstation 3 and 4, Xbox One and 360, Windows Phone 8 and 10.

We will be back in touch with any further updates.
 
So, the channel will still be up for grabs on Sky, along with the HD versions of More4, E4 and Film4. How does a broadcaster with a PSB remit, and moreover, taxpayers money, get away with it? What am I missing here? This announcement will greatly damaged Freesat, IMHO. Whilst HMG are busy slicing-up Freeview bandwidth, effectively forcing some of us to rely on Freesat, the channel line-up has taken a massive retrograde step. Thanks, C4.

Clem
 
I don't know increased prices but they were £30k for approx 2 million potential Freesat viewers and £75k for Sky's 10 million potential viewers plus Freesat from Sky viewers - shows which is better value for money.

£30k is cheaper than £75k .. as for potential viewers (for their advertisers ) .. even just on those very basic figures, you've papered over a couple of er.. budgies under the wall paper..

That's £30k for 12 million potential viewers not 2

versus £75k for 10m or 9m

Plus.. on Freesat .. it's a bigger fish & as such has a potentially larger audience because if you are paying sky an arm and a leg, you're not going to spend that much or as much time on C4 So that's a negative for potential advertisers

So those figures ... don't add up commercially. . unless I've missed something. . a deal's been done .. £75k's nothing to sky for this upheavel

maybe more details will come to light .. or not .. maybe freesat epg price has played a role

Sky subsidises their satellite installs too.. The true cost they know they will get back a 1000 fold

Channel 4 is a pbs but self funded by advertising and production sales etc.... not by the tax payers afaiaa
 
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***.
 
All typical Freesat fans paranoia and misinformation about Sky...
Unless you've been living under a rock since the 1980s you can't fail to be aware that if you shake hands with Rupert Murdoch you'd better check how many fingers are left on your hand afterwards.

Considering how $ky have systematically raped their customers and British TV over the years it's reasonable to assume they'll have had a hand somewhere in a situation like this to try and gain an advantage over their competitors.

Nothing about it going encrypted so should still be available in non freesat mode and to generic FTA receivers
That's something at least.
 
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£30k is cheaper than £75k .. as for potential viewers (for their advertisers ) .. even just on those very basic figures, you've papered over a couple of er.. budgies under the wall paper..

That's £30k for 12 million potential viewers not 2

versus £75k for 10m or 9m
Pray tell how you manage to dream up a figure of 12 million considering only just over 2 million Freesat capable stbs and TVs have been sold? Figures should have been households rather than viewers in both cases.
 
There's a bigger issue here to my mind. With the loss of one if the 'big five' channels on Freesat it no longer looks quite so attractive to hardware manufacturers. Although three of the main TV manufacturers still offer Freesat in their TVs, we only have one manufacturer of Freesat PVRs, Humax, and if they decide not to follow through with the G3 box promised for late this year/early 2019 then I think that it's prety much game over for Freesat. The loss if the All4 app. is another major blow if you don't have any other devices that support it.

If you can't get a decent Freeview service, and can't get/don't want to pay for Sky or VM and rely on Freesat then you're stuck with SD, in much the same way as those Freeview users will be with the loss of BBC4HD when the changes bite for removal of the Com7/8 muxes.

In the short term, if C4HD remains FTA on satellite then it should still be viewable via the non-Freesat option on G2 boxes, but, as I recall (someone correct me if I'm wrong) you can't record it, and would in any event loose series linking. I suspect that the channel will end-up behind Sky's paywall, but if it doesn't then an FTA satellite PVR might be an option, after all, for the most part, Freesat is just one fancy EPG, with a bit of channel allocation change management bundled in.

The recent postings on the 'net lead to me to conclude that things have been left open for further negotiations, but given the sudden surprise announcements I wouldn't go holding my breath, waiting for things to return as to how they were.

As usual, it's Joe Public that gets a raw deal here. I suppose that you could email Freesat/C4/your MP, but I doubt that that will do much good.

As it happens, I think that C4 and the other supporting channels have gone 'off the boil' as it were, of late. Apart from watching a few lifestyle programmes with SWMBO I can't recall the last decent drama/documentary that we watched on any of the '4' channels.

I hope that the status quo that we know and value returns, but if it does, it may be some time coming. Much as I hate the idea, I can see a Sky subscription looming chez Dye .....

Clem
 
Can someone remind me - with the custom firmware on the Foxsat HDR, is it possible to set a manual recording of C4HD (FTA non-freesat version added to the channel list) at the same time as a normal Freesat recording, e.g BBC1HD?
TIA.
 
Pray tell how you manage to dream up a figure of 12 million .

What you're saying sounds worse, do you mean to say people paying sky are blocked from seeing x amount of free channels & Freesat channels.

I confess I don't do too many satellite installs involing sky, except taking it out & replacing it with motorised or multi Sat. .

I was surprised the other day at a customer's mum who I was asked to do a sky install for when she went to a particular channel & it was a free channel she thought she was paying for.

Figures should have been households rather than viewers in both cases.

I know, but maybe viewing habits nowadays might make it closer than saying x amount in a household would automatically watch sky.
 
Well, I checked all4 app on my tv (at least they can’t take that away) and the quality is on a par with SD.
As broadcasters slowly move to 4K, we are forced to go back to 480i
I assumed the app would be decent, but straight comparison to Sunday’s ep1 of Homeland in HD and it’s far from it
They will loose many viewers
 
What you're saying sounds worse, do you mean to say people paying sky are blocked from seeing x amount of free channels & Freesat channels.

I confess I don't do too many satellite installs involing sky, except taking it out & replacing it with motorised or multi Sat. .

I was surprised the other day at a customer's mum who I was asked to do a sky install for when she went to a particular channel & it was a free channel she thought she was paying for
Both Sky and Freesat boxes can view and record all free channels (Sky box needs a minimum sub to record - £10/11 per month) that pay to be on the respective EPG. Channels not on the EPG can be added to either box ("non freesat mode" or "other channels) and viewed but not recorded (exceptions on one or two freesat boxes - one with "hacked" firmware. By law all satellite receivers sold in the EU must be capable of viewing all FTA channels their hardware/firmware is capable of receiving.

Your cudtomer was certainly paying for the ability to record it on a Sky box.
 
CH4 have made it plain that this is a commercial decision. As ch4hd is remaining on freeview then it's nothing to do with a backroom deal with sky. Why do freesat geeks blame every thing bad that happens on freesat at sky's door. Bit like the "Sun" blaming Jeremy corbyn for absolutely everything bad that's ever happened in the history of the UK. As for "viewing figures" then freeview trumps sky and freesat with a supposed 28m using freeview as there main TV provider.
Freesat was launched to give those with no access to DTT an alternative way to receive TV broadcasts. As such it does what it set out to do. Channels come and go depending on commercial factors and I wonder what ch4 hd actual viewership on freesat is? Obviously not enough to make it viable any longer. With ch4hd gone,maybe ch5 and itv will remove there hd channels as well. After all there is no stipulation that they must offer hd versions of there channels...and freesat is such a tiny wee bit of the UK TV landscape.. But CH4 remains in SD . That's life, get over it,your life won't be significantly worse for watching hollyoaks in SD
 
The issue is for some of us that SD looks poor, in that I won’t watch it.
So while I have the choice to watch in SD I won’t. So I am reacting to the sudden news I’ll no longer be watching C4. I will get over it, but it’s pretty poor all round.
 
The issue is for some of us that SD looks poor, in that I won’t watch it.
So while I have the choice to watch in SD I won’t. So I am reacting to the sudden news I’ll no longer be watching C4. I will get over it, but it’s pretty poor all round.
spot on,have not watched sd in a long time and have no intention of starting,considering i stream 4k dolby vision dd5.1 for a lot of my viewing now,the main 5 broadcasters have been badly left behind,the days of sd broadcasts should be over.
 
Both Sky and Freesat boxes can view and record all free channels (Sky box needs a minimum sub to record - £10/11 per month) that pay to be on the respective EPG. Channels not on the EPG can be added to either box ("non freesat mode" or "other channels) and viewed but not recorded (exceptions on one or two freesat boxes - one with "hacked" firmware. By law all satellite receivers sold in the EU must be capable of viewing all FTA channels their hardware/firmware is capable of receiving.

Your cudtomer was certainly paying for the ability to record it on a Sky box.

So then it is 12 million ... isn't it.

Freeview is on most TVs, even TVs with a Freesat box connected to it or free to air satellite receiver or sky box of Virgin media box or any one of the other tv service providers.

People tend to use the satellite or cable box the vast majority of the time, but it's handy to seap now & again for a few things and might add access to some other services.

Many providers on Freesat are on Freeview anyway .. total potential audience .. 65 million plus people outside the UK that can still receive on satellite.

Humax became the sole manufacturer / developer because, according to Freesat, they liked the relationship with Humax & it had worked well so they announced that was their plan going foreword. . I think I heard that at the CAI show about 18 months ago .. then months later announced something different to that

Humax have done very well out of Freesat & I think Freesat are haopy they've done a good job & a relationship like that can work well
 
As broadcasters don't even provide dvd quality on their sd channels I can see why anyone who cares about quality avoids sd like the plague. Problem is that Mr and Mrs average couldn't care less . How many of us know people who still watch sd over hd on freeview because HD is so far down the EPG? If people can't be bothered punching in three numbers instead of one ..well that's the reason SD remains . It's cheap for the broadcasters and Joe public,by and large just don't care. I can't see that changing anytime soon, sd is here for many a year yet.
 
This all boils down to money when all said and done...for channel 4 the value for the increase in carrage costs it's clearly not worth it for the channel...let's be honest advertising revenues have fallen dramatically over the last 15 years...the sheer amount of ways we can all consume TV is astounding,and one that we all probably take forward for granted...and channel 4 probably know this...I agree with various posts on here with people saying that the average "Joe blogs" simply don't care how they watch TV...the younger generation are happy watching on a smartphone or tablet...the rise of on demand is slowly killing live broadcasts...even recorder's seem to be taking a back seat...and I like to think of myself as old school! But even I find myself watching more on demand then live TV...my TV gives me access to a whole host of streaming and on demand content,that I can't remember the last time I used my you view freeview HD recorder.
 

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