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No ITV 3 or 4 since retune

Trollslayer

Distinguished Member
Try another retune - for some reason the changeover was staggered at Mendip.
 

Starburst

Distinguished Member
Check the EPG to see if they have been added at the end perhaps in the 800's, if they have then a reset to factory defaults and set the box up again will put the channels back into the correct positions.
 

Redline

Prominent Member
Hi

Anyone else missing these two channels since the 30th Sept? I receive signals from Waltham.

Attland

I receive freeview from the Weymouth relay transmitter and have lost ITV3 and ITV4. Looking at the freeview site it seems people on relay transmitters loose out.
 

Ray_Woodward

Established Member
Waltham (the OP's site) is however a main station.

(Probably a simple case of re-tuning too early (before the changes had been completed)).
 

Ivah

Standard Member
I posted this on the retune thread.
Had no problem downgrading my system by retuning. I already had Channel 5 but have lost ITV3 and ITV4. I receive my signal from Sedbergh relay station.
What is the justification for relay stations not being just that - a relay of whatever their master transmitter is carrying?
How are these relays funded? If it is at the whim of the channel providers rather than Freeview the contracts should be changed so that if they want to be part of the Freeview brand they have to pay enough to give complete coverage. Or is it a cock up by Freeview where they have under budgeted and under invested in the relays so they can't carry the channels? If so lets roll some heads and put it right!
It seems to me it is just another example of the rural population don't matter just like the dreadful broadband service. How about a No10 petition?
I heard Freeview MD on the radio talking down to a lady from the Lake District who had lost ITV3 & 4, she (MD) had no grasp of the facts was saying it was needed to enable Channel 5, wouldn't listen to the fact that the lady received 5 before the retune.
I've written to my MP and suggest you do the same, dead easy this way WriteToThem - Email or fax your Councillor, MP, MEP, MSP or Welsh, NI, London Assembly Member for free - the whole structure needs a revision starting with the MD!
 
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Gavtech

Administrator
Had no problem downgrading my system by retuning. I already had Channel 5 but have lost ITV3 and ITV4. I receive my signal from Sedbergh relay station.
What is the justification for relay stations not being just that - a relay of whatever their master transmitter is carrying?

The justification is that they do to the maximum what is technically possible.
How are these relays funded? If it is at the whim of the channel providers rather than Freeview the contracts should be changed so that if they want to be part of the Freeview brand they have to pay enough to give complete coverage. Or is it a cock up by Freeview where they have under budgeted and under invested in the relays so they can't carry the channels? If so lets roll some heads and put it right!

It cannot be put right.
It seems to me it is just another example of the rural population don't matter just like the dreadful broadband service. How about a No10 petition?

To achieve what? You are seeking to get something that cannot be done


I heard Freeview MD on the radio talking down to a lady from the Lake District who had lost ITV3 & 4, she (MD) had no grasp of the facts was saying it was needed to enable Channel 5, wouldn't listen to the fact that the lady received 5 before the retune.

It was not to bring channel 5 to that lady, but to a wider national audience. The objectives of public service broadcasting are to achieve the widest possible coverage for the channels that fall under the description of the PSB remit.
ITV 3 and 4 are not part of that remit. They are secondary commercial channels and there is no obligation on the part of the broadcasting authorities to ensure maximum reach of those channels.
I've written to my MP and suggest you do the same, dead easy this way WriteToThem - Email or fax your Councillor, MP, MEP, MSP or Welsh, NI, London Assembly Member for free - the whole structure needs a revision starting with the MD!

If you wish to campaign usefully then complain about about the many bandwidth wasting channels that exist. See the list here.
 

Ivah

Standard Member
Gavtech

I never believe the word "cannot" - where there's a will there's a way!

Are you suggesting the only thing that could be changed is the distribution of channels across the MUX groups (or whatever the proper terminology is) rather than more groups being available from relay transmitters? Why cannot more groups be relayed?

I notice on Digital Spy (Digital TV - News - Borders MP concerned over 'Freeview Lite' - Digital Spy) a year ago an MP dubbed the relay system Freeview Lite but never got a satisfactory explanation. I'll write to him about Freeview Super Lite and see if he has made any progress.
 

Gavtech

Administrator
Gavtech

I never believe the word "cannot" - where there's a will there's a way!

Are you suggesting the only thing that could be changed is the distribution of channels across the MUX groups (or whatever the proper terminology is) rather than more groups being available from relay transmitters? Why cannot more groups be relayed?

The problem is one of available bandwidth.

Main transmitters are dotted around the country to give the most optimum coverage.
Adjacent transmitters have differing frequencies so that they do not mutually interfere

When there are holes and shadows in the reception area of a main transmitter, due to the vagaries of topography, relay transmitters are required to fill in the gaps.

Relays cannot operate at the same frequencies as main transmitters as they would mutually interfere, and basically, there are just not enough available frequencies to share out amongst the relays to provide total coverage of all the Freeview muxes.
So in some cases, the muxes that are not obligatory under the Public Service broadcasting provisions have to be sacrificed.

Things may improve as the total analogue switch-off occurs.
There will be further reorganisation of available frequencies and Freeview transmitter powers will be increased considerably.
At the moment they have to be kept at low power so as not to interfere with existing analogue transmissions.

By the end of the whole process, it is expected that 98% of the population will be able to receive the PSB muxes [Public Service broadcasting].
Coverage of the commercial muxes will reach 90%.
 

Ivah

Standard Member
Thanks for that - makes more sense now. So the selection of what goes on the PSB MUXs is the only thing we can suggest is changed.
 

Dave I

Standard Member
I have ITV3 and ITV4 in my channel list, but a blank screen when I select them. Is this the "relay problem"? - how can I tell if I'm on one of these relay transmitters?

Also, I don't have EPG for BBC4, although I can select it and view programs OK. Is this also part of the same problem?
 

Ivah

Standard Member
I'm not an expert on this but you should be able to find out the name of your transmitter from the postcode checker

Digital UK - Home

Once you know the name if you check the map for your region I think the underlined transmitters are main and the rest are relay

Television Transmitter Location Maps | Ofcom

If you still have an analogue signal you can check it out from the channel numbers but I've forgotten to link to that!
 

adebig

Prominent Member
I have I**3 and I**4 in my channel list, but a blank screen when I select them. Is this the "relay problem"? - how can I tell if I'm on one of these relay transmitters?

Take a look at your aerial, if the elements are vertical then you are receiving from a relay.
 

Dave I

Standard Member
I'm not an expert on this but you should be able to find out the name of your transmitter from the postcode checker

Once you know the name if you check the map for your region I think the underlined transmitters are main and the rest are relay

According to the postcode checker, my "Most likely" transmitter is Winter Hill, Granada region. The other possibilities it suggests are all in Central region, to the South of me, and my aerial points North. The website says Winter Hill should give me good reception on all channels at all stages of the switchover.

Take a look at your aerial, if the elements are vertical then you are receiving from a relay.

My aerial elements are horizontal, and Winter Hill is a main transmitter according to the region transmitters map, so that ties up.

All of which suggests I ought not to have a problem ... :( ?
 

iqofafish

Established Member
From what I've read and seen, those that can't receive ITV3/4 after the retune, could be able to get them after resetting their freeview box back to factory settings and then doing a re-tune.
 
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Beddie

Established Member
Just be thankful you can get Freeview. I live in Thetford, Norfolk which is hardly the middle of nowhere (oh ok maybe it is) and we don't get Ch5 on analogue nor do we get Freeview AT ALL! This is because we too have a relay transmitter and it's pathetic.

The reception is terrible too on analogue, so the only options are to either get Sky, which I have, or to get a huge aerial on a long pole to pick up the main transmitter at Tacolneston instead. We don't go digital until 2011.
 

walesyg

Standard Member
I read in some of the newspapers that after the re-tune some people would lose itv3 and itv4 permanently. I think it's so people can get ch5 and also free up space for freeview HD. I don't know if you would get missing channels on free-sat.
 

Ivah

Standard Member
You may be OK eventually apart from the limited channel count. My analogue signal was always terrible (aerial in loft to stop it blowing away, we are at 600') so I used a second hand digibox, dish and Freesat from Sky card to get a decent picture. When analogue was switched off I got fed up with not being able to watch one / record another channel so I bought a Freeview box with modulated out (TVONICS MDR-250) and found the picture was as good as satellite. So now my recorder has SKART in from satellite and aerial in from Freeview so I almost have free Sky+ but with tricky programming. The same week I lost channels on Freeview retune Sky did me for another £20 card which is why I was not well pleased.
 

Gavtech

Administrator
According to the postcode checker, my "Most likely" transmitter is Winter Hill, Granada region. The other possibilities it suggests are all in Central region, to the South of me, and my aerial points North. The website says Winter Hill should give me good reception on all channels at all stages of the switchover.



My aerial elements are horizontal, and Winter Hill is a main transmitter according to the region transmitters map, so that ties up.

All of which suggests I ought not to have a problem ... :( ?

Dave I - Have you performed a retune yet?
The symptoms you are describing suggest not.

Even if you have done so, it appears that a complete reset of the receiver and a retune would be the thing to do.
 

Rocket_Man

Established Member
I'm on Waltham and my ITV3 and ITV4 are still working. I happened to be home on the 30th and retuned at 12:05 without problem :D
 

Avi

Distinguished Member
According to the postcode checker, my "Most likely" transmitter is Winter Hill, Granada region. The other possibilities it suggests are all in Central region, to the South of me, and my aerial points North. The website says Winter Hill should give me good reception on all channels at all stages of the switchover.



My aerial elements are horizontal, and Winter Hill is a main transmitter according to the region transmitters map, so that ties up.

All of which suggests I ought not to have a problem ... :( ?

I'm also Winter Hill and according to my post code I should have ITV3,ITV4 and CITV (received these prior to the re-tune). Since retuning using the TV's integrated DVB I've lost ITV3 and CITV but ITV4 is fine. I've reset the TV in addition to using the menu driven auto update but still no ITV3 or CITV after several re-tunes.

Interestingly I plugged in an old Sagem freeview set top box using the same aerial this shows found ITV3 and CITV in addition to ITV4 after it was re-tuned. I then tried a re-tune of the integrated TV tuner but again no ITV3 or CITV :confused:

AVI
 

grahamlthompson

In memoriam
Just be thankful you can get Freeview. I live in Thetford, Norfolk which is hardly the middle of nowhere (oh ok maybe it is) and we don't get Ch5 on analogue nor do we get Freeview AT ALL! This is because we too have a relay transmitter and it's pathetic.

The reception is terrible too on analogue, so the only options are to either get Sky, which I have, or to get a huge aerial on a long pole to pick up the main transmitter at Tacolneston instead. We don't go digital until 2011.

One main point of the retune was to swap muxes for channel 5 with ITV3 and 4 to ensure that all transmitters have it. If you can get ITV on digital you should now get channel 5
 

Gavtech

Administrator
I'm also Winter Hill and according to my post code I should have ITV3,ITV4 and CITV (received these prior to the re-tune). Since retuning using the TV's integrated DVB I've lost ITV3 and CITV but ITV4 is fine. I've reset the TV in addition to using the menu driven auto update but still no ITV3 or CITV after several re-tunes.

Interestingly I plugged in an old Sagem freeview set top box using the same aerial this shows found ITV3 and CITV in addition to ITV4 after it was re-tuned. I then tried a re-tune of the integrated TV tuner but again no ITV3 or CITV :confused:

AVI

The missing channels are all on Mux A [ see here for channel list per mux]

Mux A is broadcast right up at the top of the waveband on channel 68+.
At the end of the waveband , aerial receptivity falls off so the likelihood is that is is just on the cusp of the reception threshold.

A fractional difference in receiver sensitivity will be enough for one device to receive it and the other not.

Given that you can receive it on the STB you may be able to get it back by using meatier flyleads - or generally ensuring that the route from the aerial to the TV is as direct as possible with as few connectors as possible... otherwise you require some additional boosting to bring that mux up to a receivable level.
 

Beddie

Established Member
One main point of the retune was to swap muxes for channel 5 with ITV3 and 4 to ensure that all transmitters have it. If you can get ITV on digital you should now get channel 5

I appreciate your reply, but like I said we don't get freeview at all! So it's 4 analogue channels for us via the local relay transmitter. Nice...
 

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