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No HD for Revolution!!

Discussion in 'Nintendo Forums' started by keyser, Jun 15, 2005.

  1. keyser

    keyser
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  2. eviljohn2

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    Why does it need HD? Most people won't have an HD display for at least another decade or so.
     
  3. t-force

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    I think an obvious reason for HD inclusion is the sense from a 3rd party business perspective. If someone has a XBox360 and/or PS3 and a Revolution as well, and they want to go for one piece of software that's released cross-platform, common sense they'll go for the one with HD support if they've got an HD display or plan to get one. HD TV take-up will shoot up over here in the next year or so with the roll-out of SKY's HD service. It's already getting to be big bucks in the states.

    It even seems that Nintendo are considering getting rid of component support for the Revolution which seems a ridiculously stupid move, after supporting prog scan pretty well (NTSC anyway) for the Cube at first.

    I think if they go ahead with this it will come back and bite them on the ass big time.
     
  4. Munkey Boy

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    Might be true in a UK context, as we're always lagging behind, but not true in the US or Japan. HD take-up is rocketing there.
     
  5. zAndy1

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    Perhaps it's just as simple as the thing isn't powerful enough to support HD resolutions! It does take some serious horsepower to support 1280x720 or 1920 x 1080 with all the bells and whistles on. Do we know what GPU the revolution is using yet? I'd be surprised if it is a case of it not being powerful enough but I can't see any logical reason for this otherwise, if the GPU is capable of those resolutions then why not support them?
     
  6. Steven

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    UK doesn't even have full broadband/digital rollout let alone HD TVs. Jap/US might not be happy though? Although nice to have option in case we all get rich... :D
     
  7. keyser

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    From where I´m sitting it makes no sense at all for nintendo to not include HD.

    Firstly, because of the third party games like t-force stated. It makes a console look bad when the game looks the crappiest on it of all the consoles.

    I HIGHLY DOUBT the Revolution won´t be powerfull enough to run games in HD, but ofcourse you have to give up something for the higher res. The orignal XBOX was powerfull enough to run games in HD.. so the Rev should also be. And since Nintendo have stated that the Rev will be compatible with PC screens, almost everyone can make use of the higher resolution!

    Even if it isn´t that powerfull of a console... I still think they should have HD possible. It´s MUCH more seller friendly to have HD on the console. Millions of people have no idea what HD really is, other than it´s something cool that makes a good pic. HD sells! All the games shouldn´t even have to be in HD.. some could and others not, just depends on what suits the game best(fast games with lots of stuff going on maybe in SD, but stuff like Monkey Ball HD!). I just think it´s a dreadfull marketing desision for Nintendo to totally exlude HD. I think the kiddy stamp Nintendo has isn´t just because of Mario, their console have been blue cubes for christ sake! A stylish looking console, HD ready and some awesome non mario game at launch would totally destroy their kiddy stamp for good!
     
  8. Miyazaki

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    This will bite Nintendo in the arse in the same way having no online support for the gamecube has.
     
  9. drskhaled

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    Its about saving money, The revo is gonna be the cheapest console out. Imagine the 360 and ps3 going for £300+, and revo going for around £100. Parents in their 30-50's know nintendo is safe for their little jimmy and its a darn sight cheaper. The revolution is gonna be mighty tempting for many middle/low income families.
    Nintendo have to aim for a particular market, frankly theyve lost the young earners market so theyre going for families. I'm sure theyll release a few mature games but as miyamoto has already hinted theyre gonna go for fun pick up and play games, not the indepth 40 hour marathons like gta, final fantasy, forza etc. So ditching hd output makes sense to me as its cost effective (i honestly dont think its anything to do with the revo's power - all nintendos machines have been impressive graphically). One thing i hope is theyll have at least a progressive pal out put via component, its the least they can do.
     
  10. CAS FAN

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    I don't really understand comments like this:-
    as they don't really make sense. Most people don't have HD displays at the moment because nothing mainstream really uses them yet. This will change over the next year or two with Sky HD, the 360 & PS3.

    In 2-3 years time (generally the time when the next gen consoles will be entering their "golden" period) demand will have driven the price of HD screens down and they will become the norm. Why anyone would think that this process will take a decade is beyond me. It's not like trying to get your granny onto digital TV. The people who we're talking about are technology lovers who want the latest consoles and Sky box and it's these people that will drive the HD revolution.

    If Ninty do miss out then their console will just be regarded as one of those old consoles that you used to plug into your old Widescreen CRT. The Revo is in danger of being associated more with the X-Box, PS2 & GC than the 360 & PS3. If they chose to bow out of the HD revolution then they are making a BIG typical Nintendo mistake IMO. As GG mentioned it will be a mistake on a par with (and maybe worse than) the lack of online play on the GC.
     
  11. eviljohn2

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    I don't see that as the case though - sure it is on these forums but that's the very nature of them. I know more people with 4:3 CRT displays than widescreen and particularly for gaming in peoples bedrooms.

    The vast majority of people who use consoles are not online and do not even use widescreen displays as standard with their consoles. Why would these people be interested in HD when they're not even getting the prog scan out of the current generation that supports it?
     
  12. Miyazaki

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    I'd warrant the 50% of the UK that uses broadband are the same 50% that can afford game consoles and widescreen/ hd teles.
     
  13. harrisuk

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    If this is true its ridiculous. By the end of next year (When the revolution will be launched) You will be able to pick up a HD set over here for less than £400.

    As someone has already said in Japan and the states take up is already massive. Many channels are already broadcast in HD format. As Japan and the US make up so much of the video games market it seems crazy that Nintendo would give themselves such a massive disadvantage.

    I cant understand why they would realease hardware that is effectively obsolete now next year unless they are looking at the console being really really cheap, competing on price not features. We all know this is not going to work with the competetition thats out there.

    I think you will find that in the states and japan the vast majority do. As for broadband take up its running at 100,000+ sign ups a month over here currently. Virtually all new TVs on sale are widescreen. I dont really understand your logic.

    You dont seem to understand the direction the market is going in at all. It very much sounds like Nintendo have decided that they cant compete technology wise so have just given up. It definately means that non of the high quality 3rd part titles you will be seing on the Xbox and PS3 will be making it to the revolution.

    I have to agree with Cas Fan without HD (Which the xbox actually has NOW) the Revolution can only really be considered with the current generation more a "Gamecube 2" than a revolution :rolleyes:
     
  14. jw250

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    I don't think thats a fair prediction. There are already a whole range of TV's that are HD Ready available now. Nearly all the manufacturers are moving toward HD sets and either have already or will release HD sets before the end of this year. Pretty soon (few yrs) all good TV's will be HD Ready, people won't won't have a choice. Sky launch HD broadcasts next year, PS3 & the new Xbox are both HD. HDDVD is launched in the US by the end of this year (check this site out, there's a list of movies being released on this site somewhere: http://www.hddvdprg.com/index.html ). I think a decade is a little exaggerated given that you (if you look around) can buy an HD flatscreen for not much more than a grand - the price of a good CRT not so long ago. I think the improvement in PQ will make a lot of people buy into it. I say 3-4 years before its really having an effect. Would you wait 10yrs to play your PS3 or watch HDDVDs? Its not like the old days where VHS reigns for 20+ years. Consumer electronics move much more quickly and are, relatively, much cheaper now than ever before. I can't wait!

    As for the topic of Nintendo Revolution not being HD. Thats just dumb, Japan has had HDTV for a few years now and with PS3 and Xbox looking so good, I think its a mistake to leave it out. Clearly a cost cutting excercise, even if the excuse is that the machine is aimed at kids.
     
  15. eviljohn2

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    I'm not suggesting that HD won't become more commonplace, but in most homes there is only a single "main" TV that may well be widescreen and will subsequently be going HD in time.

    I'm suggesting that the majority of consoles (of every type) are sat in kids rooms upstairs connected to a televideo. The chances of these going HD any time soon aren't exactly high. :)
     
  16. harrisuk

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    Actually by far the biggest growth sector in the video games market is young adults 18 - 35. They have the most disposable income to spend on Video Games and are now the primary focus of the market.

    I just think you can see how much Nintendo have been left behind with coments like this.

    It really came home to me when you saw the DS vs PSP (N64 vs PS2). This is their latest hardware offering and despite being the market leaders it was bettered (Considerably) by Sonys first handheld attempt.

    The biggest problem with not matching the technology or the other new consoles is defiantely the big third party titles. These cross format games make up to 50% of the market. Its unlikely that any of them will been seen on the revolution as the next gen titles are all be designed to 720p at a minimum.

    If Nintendo have accepted third place before the Revolution is even launched I dont see much hope for them.
     
  17. Rob20

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    Predictions for HDTV take up for the Uk have been stated at 20% of households by 2008. While it seems something of an omission, I don't think it's that crucial. I have a hi-def Tosh lcd so can't wait to see 360 and PS3 games in 720p, but how many people will own hi-def tvs in the next 5 or so years. Also, that tv may only be in tha main room and a large number of rev's will be in bedrooms, spare rooms etc. Next gen it will be a must have though. Then again, if this gen lasts longer than 5 years it may be a weakness!?
     
  18. danvitale

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    Regardless of the HD take up, the Revolution not having HD output will matter because the average Joe on the street will look at the console and no doubt see it against the 360 and PS3 outputting HD on a demo stand and think "that Nintendo looks naff..."

    Nintendo seem to think they can move forward using past thinking and old technologies. If they continue to do this they will fall from grace big time investing so much money into a console that will arrive a year later than the 360, months later than the PS3, and will have less functionality and technolgical capability as the Sony and Microsoft machines.

    They will end up like Sega at this rate.
     
  19. eviljohn2

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    The cruel irony being that the Dreamcast was that on release (and to some extent still today) was the most advanced console available by some margin. :)
     
  20. Miyazaki

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    Nintendo might as well pack up and go home now if this news is true.

    On the other hand Nintendo are launching an online service for the DS soon, so they are at least mildly interested in staying in the console making business.
     
  21. harrisuk

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    If they are going to take backwards steps why bother releasing new hardware at all ? Why not bring out a revamped Gamecube and sell it at £50 ?

    Nice and affordable for the kids and cheap to make games for.......If we all thought like this we would still be buying Ps1 and N64 :rolleyes:

    I really dont see the point of bringing out uprated hardware and processors in this new console when it cant support the high res displayes which can take advantage of the power. It just seems pointless. It sounds like they are not even going to have component connectivity so you are going to end up with a next gen console connected to your TV via RGB scart :confused:

    It dosnt matter how clever it is and if it can turn out good quality graphics the fact that it can only be connected via lo res inputs becomes the problem. This really leads me to believe that if they are cutting corners to this extent their is less than no chance of it having anywhere near the system specs that have been suggested when it is actually released.

    You can see from their E3 releases that a clear strategy is forming......that is they dont really have a strategy. They dont know how powerful it will be, they dont know when they will release it.

    What they do know is that they will try to compete on price so no HD. Lets be honest who is actually going to consider buying a Revolution other than the real Mario / Zelda fans :confused: Its sad really but this statement just shows what alot of people have though for a while, Nintendo is a company in decline living on borrowed time.
     
  22. CAS FAN

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    I'll probably still get one as Zelda games are generally too good to miss and there are always a smattering of other great games on Ninty machines (Fzero, RE, Mario Kart, Metroid etc.). I won't buy one at release though, i'll just wait until I can pick one up for pence (like when I bought my GC with 5 games, 2 pads & 2 mem cards for £45 about a year back :D ). Infact I doubt that i've spent over £100 on my GC and have about 15 games for it and 3 pads including 1 wavebird!

    I think that things are really goint to start kicking off with this next gen of consoles and we will REALLY see gaming become the mainstream. Things are going to get serious and I can't see Nintendo being able to compete this time around. I hope to be proven wrong though. :)
     
  23. Tejstar

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    I must admit I’m quite surprised about this. I didn’t expect this to have a HD-DVD/Blu-Ray drive but did expect it to support HD resolutions. Just goes to show Nintendo are playing by their own rulebook and are more interested in profits than market share. I wish them well.
     
  24. drskhaled

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    its quite amazing how many people on this forum are upset by revo being non hd. But we do have a biased population, as this is av forums a lot of us have hd displays allready. The revo is aimed as a second console (for nintendophiles) or a first console for kiddies.

    No matter how much money they throw at it they cannot hope to win the 18-30 disposable income market. So this is their strategy; If it dont work theyll fold and go software only, if it does penetrate the 8-16 yr market (ie parents money) they have a potential loyal user base. Nintendo hopes when these kids grow up they stay loyal and hence nintendo take the 18-30 market in a decade.

    This is nintedos only hope, it cannot compete with ps3 and 360 (outside of Japan). I reckon this tactic will work and in a decade ninty will be market leader with a truly superior product. Or maybe im being too optimistic.
     
  25. Miyazaki

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    A decade ago Nintendo and Sega were the only console makers. Where are all the loyal kiddies who owned snes buying a gamecube in their 20s and 30s?

    They all have ps2 and xbox. Your argument makes no sense i'm afraid.
     
  26. CAS FAN

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    I was (and still am) a mad Sega fan all through my youth and if Sega brought a console out tomorrow i'd buy it on launch day ahead of any M$ & Sony console ;) (I did the queing thing at midnight for my first DC and I can't say i've done that for any other console) . I was also a bit of a Ninty fan but not to the same extent. I have bought every Nintendo console since the SNES and will probably buy a Revo but not as my first console.
     
  27. SILVERBACK

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    i adored my snes :) i originally had a master system then jumped ship to the snes while all my mates bought megadrives and there where only a few occasions when i felt like playing a megadrive exclusive game.unfortunately when the next gen consoles came out there wasnt the magic of the snes and the new kids on the block where making the games i wanted to play and thats the way it has continued for me.

    i had an n64 just for goldeneye and perfect dark (2 unbelievable FPS on any console) and the completely unbelievable mario 64 and kart but little else flicked my switch on the n64.then the cube came out yet again the last console on the block and it was already to late for me i had turned to the darkside lol,the cube IMO just lacked pretty much the majority of the magic which had engrossed me with the snes,it was a shell of its former self with the big titles so far apart that it really was a bit of a joke and ads to that they werent quite the AAA titles of the old nintendo and standards had slipped.

    its pretty much a 2 horse race now as everyone one will either own a ps3 or an xbox and the revolution will be a second thought and a passing novelty (as im sure there genre changing new controller will be) i hope im wrong i trully do but with news of no HD and the possibility it wont even be component can we really hold out much hope to get ingame 5.1 which has turned my gaming experiences on its head.

    it would be interesting to see nintendo become a software developer only as im convinced that some of there exclusive titles wouldnt stand up to the test as much as they do when there on there own console.
     
  28. bonzobanana

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    I must admit its really weird to hear that the Revolution won't support high definition. You can pick up an old 400mhz pc for £50 and play games at a high defintion of 1024x768. It seems anything above normal TV resolution is labelled high definition. So thats anything about 720x480 (progressive widescreen ntsc) or 720x576 pal progressive. The chip its going to be using is ATi based I believe and most certainly will be capable of higher resolutions.

    The only thing that would make sense of it is either a built in TFT display or projector output so that a external display wouldn't actually be needed and therefore support for higher resolutions won't be needed. Maybe thats the revolution, the first home console with a built in display or projector. Maybe that explains the weird look of the revolution as theres a lense at the back or will be.

    I remember before the Gamecube came out Nintendo were releasing figures about performance and they were conservative and realistic figures that were beaten straight away by a launch title Rogue Leader II. Basically they were fair and honest where as Sony were hyping like mad stating the ps2 was a 1000 times more powerful than the ps1 etc. Somehow I think Nintendo should either just shut up or learn to hype their products too. Its disappointing when Nintendo go with downbeat realism and it doesn't do them any favours.

    Certainly if the Revolution comes to the uk with a limited resolution, inflated price and months of waiting between usa and europe game releases they might as well forget it. Lets face it the gamecube has only been borderline profitable for stores over here. The games seem to have a small window at full price before getting heaviliy discounted. I love my gamecube and have more original games for it than my ps2 and xbox combined but I have to say most of them were less than a tenner and quite a few were under a fiver. As consumers we have benefitted from the 3 horse race.

    Even if the Revolution is a total disaster it will probably be a greater financial success than xbox 360. It amazes me how people can state the xbox has been more successful than gamecube when the gamecube has been sold at a profit and the xbox sold at a massive loss. We are being paid to take xboxes away from the shops as the manufacturing cost is greater than the retail price. Well over a $billion has been lost on the xbox.

    Lets face it the PS2 is the real success story, it has sold in massive numbers all over the world and has kept sony in profit even though many of its other divisions have been loss making. The gamecube while profitable is a mediocre performer in commercial terms and nintendo rely on their handheld systems for real profit. The xbox however is a total and utter flop and would have been removed from sale by most other companies and its only the fact that Microsoft have decided they are in the console market for the long term that it has survived. Its really annoying when xbox fans talk about it being ahead of the gamecube in sales when its only achieved this by subsidising every xbox console in the region of $80 approx and even with profit from software sales and live the subsidy for every xbox sold is about $50. Its great that we are getting it subsidised in this way don't get me wrong but its hardly fair to compare a product that is heaviliy subsidised with one that is selling at a profit and a fair price. If euro land had a console manufacturer and Microsoft were chinese or japanese the console would be prevented from being sold due to anti-dumping regulations.
     
  29. SILVERBACK

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    its all about perception though,if you ask the majority of people who play games to name the top console it will either be xbox or ps2 ask them about the cube and the usual response will not be positive,right or wrong it doesnt matter in this new era of gaming.MS and sony have both taken loses to get there foot in the door and my god what a massive foot they both have now.having your games taken off the shelves is never a good sign wether its only by a few big stores or hundreds because it gives off a negative self image and that does not bode well for future releases.

    nintendo as far back as i can remember have never been a developer to shout about stats etc it just let the games do the talking but the last 2 generations have had more of a whisper than a talk and now 2 massive corporations our in the game its a new story all together and i just dont think nintendo have moved along with the times.its ok saying we only make games machines but in 5 years time i truelly believe the all singing all dancing one box solution will be a very recognisable target and nintendo have absolutely no idea about anything outside of games machines while sony and MS on the other hand not only have massive resources but huge pull and knowledge of this kind of wonder box technology.

    lets face it 8 years ago it would be unthinkable for nintendo to be even challenged never mind bested by a new console developer and its now got another massive contender to deal with so what do nintendo do? release a console last and announceit will be capable of playing games from the last 20 years but there not even going to be free :mad:

    on a lighter note you cant really trust anything that SONY say when it comes to pre console hype as its all running on pc`s and will bare little resembalance to what you will be seeing on your tv.besides that anyone else remember the "EMOTION" engine/ps2 :rotfl: :rotfl:
     
  30. cmcg55

    cmcg55
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    Don't know about Japan mate, but the take-up in the US isn't what you'd think. The industry wants you to think HD is a smash-hit so you'll jump on the bandwagon for fear of being left behind, but the truth is that penetration has been very slow.

    I live over here (Sacramento, CA), so I see it first hand. Put it this way, in the company I work for (about 40 employees), I'm the only one who has it. It can't be the cost (to add the available HD channels (about 20, including the four major networks (CBS, FOX, NBC, ABC) to your cable package is a bare $5 per month)).

    Actually, there was an article in the newspaper about it perhaps 3-4 months ago, specifically that ComCast (the local cable co) were very disappointed about the lack of take-up and the amount of HD set-top boxes being returned after the 30 day free trial had run out.

    Truth is, I think where they've missed the boat is in packaging. I couldn't give a rat's ass about seeing FOX or ABC in Hi-Def, because there's nothing on the major networks now you really would want to see in that format. It's damn good for sports (ESPN-HD is worth the $5 by itself), but where they've missed the ticket is not making more movie channels available (there's only one HBO, one Showtime, one Starz and one MovieMax available on HD, and only then provided you've purchased that specific movie package).

    However, those packages are getting less and less enticing too... it used to be there was at least one movie on every night I would want to see, but all the good stuff i.e. new stuff has been moved to the In-Demand Pay-Per-View channels (only 1 of which is HD as well), and "basic" HBO, etc. is left with straight-to-video movies you've seen umpteen times and have no intention of watching again (they seem to have a hair up their butt for Mr Van Damme at the moment - no matter what time I turn on, I'm sure Double Impact is on somewhere...). In fact, if it wasn't for HBO's exceptional drama department (Sopranos, Deadwood, Six Feet Under), I would have cancelled the package a good while back.
     

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