No Freeview HD channels every morning but appear later in the day!

HarryCallaghan

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Hello,

Scratching my head as to what can be wrong with my tv reception. Every morning up until 10am or so, my HD channels (101-105) show as 'No signal' but without fail they reappear after 10am and are clear with no discernible problems for the rest of the day. I was having similar problems with old tv setup recently so I thought that by replacing my loft aerial (40 yrs old!) and tv of some 12 years of age that all would be cured, but it seems I am still having these weird problems cropping up every day.

My new TV is an Hitachi 43" 4K UltraHD Android. Model 43HAK615OU
Aerial: SSL 48 Element Tri Boom Very High Gain Freeview HD TV Aerial

I have mounted the aerial in the same type of position in the loft facing the same way as the last aerial with horizontal polarisation.

Any help would be appreciated!
 
I would check the signal strengths of the unaffected channels and the problematic HD channels, both while you're having problems (before 10am) and also when you're not. There's normally a way of doing this via an option in the tuning menu.

Loft aerials aren't ideal unless you live pretty close to a transmitter. Do you know which transmitter you use and how far you are from it ? You can get transmitter info by putting your postcode and house number in to the checker on this site. It's often (but not always) the 'most likely' transmitter suggestion. In my case, it's the second-closest transmitter as the closest is a local, relay transmitter which only transmits a very limited number of channels (aka 'Freeview Lite').

You'll also get useful information such as the UHF channel frequencies needed for manual tuning (which can have a bearing on the best type of aerial to use) as well as the recommended polarisation.

There have been many changes to the UHF frequencies used for Freeview in recent years. Your wideband aerial will still cover all the frequencies used, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the best aerial for your location.

If it's an issue that only appears at certain times of the day then it could be weather condition-related, or do you get the same problem all year round ?
 
Location? To enable transmitter predictions to be run.
Very nearby postcode of a school, pub, church, shop or other business will allow that (we don't need yours - unless it covers a very large rural area).

Those tri-boom aerials Amazon product ASIN B07PK4XG2T allegedly include 5G filters so are only 21-48 (470-694 MHz) and the seller spec is off.
Someone in their Q&A claims 16dB(i?) gain which is very optimistic for such a small tri-boom antenna.
Tri-boom Very High Gain TV Aerial - Labgear is a similar style aerial and has 11dB gain ref a dipole.
But that will be the peak gain figure and not necessarily at the frequencies you actually need gain.

Test of "economy Tri Boom" the MUX Magician - A.T.V. Poles, Brackets, Clamps & Aerials is also interesting to read.

Time-related interference as you describe is very unusual, so location and transmitter will help.

Aerials in lofts don't deteriorate due to weather (water, wind and UV exposure) and 40 years ago were built to better standards anyway.
Roof materials attenuate signals significantly - especially so if pointing through neighbouring party and gable end walls.
 
Iif it's cutting off at a certain time that suggests that something on a timer is interfering with it. Do you have anything on your house set to turn off at 10am every day? Hot water heating for example.
 
Hi all and thanks for the replies.

For info:
My nearest transmitter is Crystal Palace in London and I live just under 10 miles from it. My aerial is pointing in a south-westerly direction like all the other aerials around here do. Also, my house is a semi-detached and the aerial is not pointing towards the dividing wall but away from it. I have no timers that come on/off before 7 or go off/on at 10am so I cant be having electrical interference within my own house. Postcode is DA16 1PG.

Signal strength for non HD channels is 100% all the time with 100% signal quality.
Signal strength for HD channels is showing 100% with 67% signal quality when working and 100% signal strength and 0% signal quality when not working.

Another strange fact is that if I change the source on my TV to the video reorder which shares the same aerial lead (RF in/RF out setup) the HD channels come up with no problem! How can that be? It is using the exact same aerial cable. I shall do some more investigating today and thanks for all your comments, I shall be looking into them as well but I am a bit of a novice when it comes to all this aerial business,,,but I am learning!

Cheers
 
You should have mentioned your aerial is daisy-changed through a video recorder.
As an experiment unplug the aerial from the VCR and plug it straight into the TV and see if the problem goes away.
 
Tuner Overload?

Exactly why this only happens in the morning and only on the HD (freq. ch 30-) I can't answer; but it's a logical thing to try fixing first.

PVR has an amplifier built in to split signal to internal tuners and pass through to RF out so 'boosts' the signal level.

Wolfbane predict 78dBuV/m at 8m agl, 9 miles from CP, lets allow -10dB for roof materials, +10dB for aerial gain, =78 dB, still; -3dB for cable and termination losses = 75 dB. Ideal range for receivers is 45-65 dB. So 10dB too much, even without a 3-6dB gain via the PVR amplifier.

Now some tuners will handle lower and higher signal levels better than others. Signal levels do vary a bit over time of day, but it's not much.

Lower gain aerial or attenuators should resolve, and are relatively inexpensive. PROception Variable Attenuator 1-20dB | Toolstation is an example.
Ensure attenuators are not plugged directly into an aerial port of a TV or PVR but using inline cable connections.

NB Bearing of 248 degrees to CP is West-Southwest. Reigate a SFN of CP is on 222 degrees which is Southwest - but transmits mostly away from CP so shouldn't be received with enough delay to upset the signal even with this "high gain" aerial at this location?

Hdmi cable cross-interference is another possible cause but why only in the morning? Always worth trying alternative cables/positions to eliminate, though.
 
Hi thanks for replies...I have tried aerial straight into TV - same problem.

With regards variable attenuator, do I install this in the link from the aerial before it gets to the cable splitter/booster in my loft? I'm guessing that i will need to make a cable up with F type connectors at both ends to insert into the cable link?

Thanks
 
Aerial straight... or aerial via this splitter-booster (aka distribution amplifier)??

If the latter bypass that amplification bit as a further trial. {Probably lose the amplifier and passive splitter anyway: 2-way = -4dB, 4-way = -8dB.}

We have had enhanced propagation predicted early this week (though your postcode predictions are low likelihood of that).

You will need adapters or adapter leads but as only the Hitachi (Vestel-made in Turkey?) is affected it can be used on that set's feed only. If it was affecting others then it would go before any amplification.

DO another check with all hdmi-connected to the Hitachi TV stuff disconnected both ends in case it's some form of cross-interference between hdmi and aerial cables.
 
Hi,

It was tested via aerial at the tv end i.e. still via the splitter/amplifier but not via the video recorder.

Ok, I have ordered the variable attenuator and will try that next and will try taking off the one hdmi cable as a separate test as well.

Thanks for your advice so far.
 
Hi,

Been a busy week with other things happening, but now back to the aerial!

I tried the variable attenuator and I also tried fixed attenuators but still no luck with the HD channels in the morning. So, I connected the aerial cable directly to the new aerial for just the HD television and it sorted the problem. All channels received with a high quality rating.

So, I disconnected my 4-way amplifier/splitter and connected my 4 cables to a 'dumb' four way splitter (ie no power required) and the TVs all seem to be receiving OK. I shall leave it for now to see if it continues to work with no problems before tidying-up in the loft.

Just as a note here, I read somewhere that 4g and 5G signals can interfere with older amplifier/splitters (mine is 15 years old) and that local mast upgrades could produce the interference that I am getting in the early hours - I suppose this could be a factor as it seems quite odd that I only have the problems in the early hours of the day?

Also, does anyone think I should get a newer splitter/amplifier for my set-up or just stick with the 'dumb' splitter?

Cheers
 
does anyone think I should get a newer splitter/amplifier for my set-up or just stick with the 'dumb' splitter?
Absolutely NO to an amplified splitter.

Passive splitting is always preferred and will save electricity and money going forward.
A 4-way splitter only loses 8dB of signal to each path.
My calculations in post #7 gave 10dB too much signal to one TV (though many will cope with that level) before I knew you were using an amplified splitter.

So you're now at the top end of the ideal signal level range to all 4 TVs.

Perfick!

Acid test is to use the meters in the TVs to check that S and Q on every multiplex is good.

NB current high pressure means enhanced propagation interference is around. If all your signals are stable then that is indicative my original 'tuner overload' diagnosis was correct.

Mobile phone interference from towers/masts would NOT be time-dependent. Restore TV | TV Signal Interference | TV Filters would supply filters to fit between aerial and amplifier if it had been interference from mobiles. (Which it wasn't).
 
Hi,

Update on this thread....Signal amplifier removed after 15 years of service! Passive 4 way splitter installed with new aerial and all TVs working with 95% Quality and 93% Strength - all running well after 6 days.

Many thanks to all for replies and special thanks to Rodders53 with all the technical info that I now subsequently understand (mostly!).

Cheers

Harry
 
Wondering if I'm having a similar issue.just moved house and cant get any HD channels at any time from the roof mounted aerial. It seems to be connected to some powered device in the loft. What is the best course of action to test where the problem may lie? Freeview check says I should get HD and testing with an rectangular indoor aerial I can get HD though the rooms seem to have very thick walls so roof aerial would be preferable. Thanks in advance.
 
Wondering if I'm having a similar issue.just moved house and cant get any HD channels at any time from the roof mounted aerial. It seems to be connected to some powered device in the loft. What is the best course of action to test where the problem may lie? Freeview check says I should get HD and testing with an rectangular indoor aerial I can get HD though the rooms seem to have very thick walls so roof aerial would be preferable. Thanks in advance.
Just to add it's a maxview booster by the looks of things.
 

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@guypb What are the signal strengths like for the channels you do receive ?
 
@guypb You should have started your own thread so as not to confuse the original thread and problem.

First we need a rough location and transmitter(s) to work on for signal levels. If a room aerial works likely to be a fairly strong signal

Second: try the aerial direct to a TV set... use a double-ended coax joiner. Does it work then?

That amp may have failed or be over-amplifying (turn the control to minimum anticlock)?

Third are we sure the cable on the input is the aerial? What is that unused cable for?
 
Fair point on the new thread, apologies.

All good questions, am in Bristol Freeview check suggests I should be able to get HD channels. Will see if I can cut out amp if I can work out which cable is from the aerial itself. I have no idea what each cable is. Will also try turning the gain down. I turned the power to the unit off and unsurprisingly the channel selection was worse. Thanks.
 
Yes, you need to make sure that the amp is powered in order to receive a signal.

A bit of trial and error will be inevitable if you want to find which cable goes where - be sure to label the cables once you've sussed it.
 
Bristol is too vague:

Mendip is main transmitter a fair distance away. But Bristol has a fair few other transmitters due to the topography... some are 'main' 6-multiplex (line fed daughters of Mendip) and others are 3-multiplex relays sites.

Use the Freeview postcode checker in professional/detailed mode: Detailed transmitter information for industry professionals to see the most likely ones (and check where your aerial is pointing).
It will also give the UHF frequency channel number to use in manual tuning for the HD multiplex.

Telephoto pics of that aerial may be helpful to see if it is damaged?

A small portable TV can be used in the loft to identify the aerial incoming I'd hope. (Strong areas one can get 'direct cable pickup' via the cables though. Most TVs have a metering system built in that will help.)

NB This does all presume you have a Freeview HD or Freeview Play TV set with the required DVB-T2 tuner for HD channels. Not all older sets do!
 
All sorted. Replaced the Maxview booster with a more modern one with 4g/5g filtering and now have all the HD channels.
 

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