1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

No dvi for Panny?

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by Barend, Aug 17, 2004.

  1. Barend

    Barend
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2004
    Messages:
    804
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +9
    Bought a dvi board for my TH-42PWD6EX Plasma, only to find it works only for ntsc!
    Well, stupid to sell this in Europe I daresay...it only accepts 576p in 50Hz, the rest of the resolutions is @60Hz, so ntsc.
    Duh!
    Getting fed up spinning all my ntsc fiscs (all 2 of 'em), the pic is AMAZING but I know every camera shot now...
    Barend :mad: :thumbsdow
     
  2. Barend

    Barend
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2004
    Messages:
    804
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +9
    C'mon guys, nobody has anything useful to say on the subject? :lease:

    Barend
     
  3. TheJamTartMan

    TheJamTartMan
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
  4. ripclaw

    ripclaw
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2003
    Messages:
    249
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +10
    Barend, where did you buy the Panny and the DVI board from? Was it from the same dealer?
     
  5. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
    Well-known Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    8,498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +827
    Nothing useful to say I'm afraid Barend. It's relatively well known that the Panasonic has limited inputs available to it via DVI, especially on this forum where it has been thrashed out several times - specfically when the iScan HD was launched. Some players that use silicon image deinterlacers don't even produce a "correct" 576P signal, rather they send out 572p which was completely not understood by the Panasonic DVI board, this hasn't helped matters! (.e.g iScan Ultra, Pioneer 868 and 668)

    I have a pdf listing available DVI resolutions that I can mail you, essentially it's native res and a couple of others @ 60Hz, 480p, 720P and 1080i all @ 60Hz and 576p @ 50Hz. In it's defence the board does at least support both PAL and NTSC progressive scan so long as it is recieving the correct signal.
     
  6. ripclaw

    ripclaw
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2003
    Messages:
    249
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +10
    Liam, are you saying then that one cannot combine a Panny PW6EX (like Barend's) and the iScanHD via DVI?
     
  7. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
    Well-known Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    8,498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +827
    You can with the HD (using 50-60Hz conversion to send native resolution if sending DVI). It's with the iScan ULTRA that you cannot use DVI at all from PAL sources, the Ultra outputs 572p rather than 576 and this throws the DVI card in the panny. However I do seem to remember Dale Adams saying that the latest production Ultras have this fixed now.
     
  8. Barend

    Barend
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2004
    Messages:
    804
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +9
    What are my chances if I flog my Pioneer 868 and buy the new Denon 3910 which is due in Germany end of August instead?
    I contacted Denon in Germany and they confirmed it puts out 576p@50Hz (why the discrepancy 575 lines (Panny) and 576 (Standard).
    So acc to them it should work...
    Yeah well that's easily said...

    Someone wrote me about the Pan. resident software maybe needing to be updated, is that an option?
    Which leads to "how" and "by whom" - who wants to shlep a Plasma around?

    Barend
     
  9. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
    Well-known Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    8,498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +827
    As far as I'm concerned with the Panasonic DVI card, don't buy anything until you've seen it up and running already!!! I've only just now realised that I have never actually fed 576p via DVI into the panel since the only sources I've had are ones with the 572 problem. That's not to say it doesn't work, just that I've not done it.

    Have you considered the new Lumagen video processor? You should be able to feed HDMI-DVI from the Pioneer, and have the Lumagen convert to 60Hz and feed the Panasonic native resolution. It should be able to accept an interlaced signal from the HDMI output of the Pioneer leaving Lumagens excelletn processing to do all the work. You will also be able to see massive improvements in PQ from other sources too (I'm thinking sky/freeview/cable).
     
  10. Barend

    Barend
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2004
    Messages:
    804
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +9
    Liam,
    That's interesting this Lumagon processor- can you give a url for more info and where to buy it?
    You see, my sole two ntsc discs have such a marvellous picture through
    dvi, I crave for more!
    Barend
     
  11. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
    Well-known Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    8,498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +827
    LOL! Some info on Lumagen site http://www.lumagen.com

    TBH you'd be better searching these very forums for decent info, there are a few BETA testers on the new models due end September.
     
  12. Barend

    Barend
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2004
    Messages:
    804
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +9
    Sorry, already realized my question was rather silly, checked out the Lumagen gear but aren't their converters negating one of the plus points of dvi, i.e. the digital processing?
    I don't see any dvi nor hdmi sockets on their converters...
    AFAI can see the highest quality video you can feed them with is 3 wire component analog...
    Barend
     
  13. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    14,011
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +2,808
    Barend:

    Look on the lumegn website about the UPCOMING products....Lots of digital ins and outs....I am watching Sky TV using DVI out to my D6 right now.....will go check HDMI out of my DV79 Arcam direct to plasma right now for you...

    Gordon
     
  14. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    14,011
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +2,808
    Well well well....I am sure I've seen a DV79 working with PAL in to a Panasonc plasma. However.....with my own feeding 576P HDMI out to the DVI board I get a corupt image. I am sure it's an HDPC thing. If I go in to the service menu the plasma knows it's getting a digital 625P signal! It's just a mess. As with BAREND the 480/525P feed works fine.

    Now the reason I suspect it's an HDCP thing is that I can send 576P via DVI with no encryption to my Panasonc from my Lumagen scaler with no probs......

    So I think Mr Panasonic is getting a call tomorrow....

    Gordon
     
  15. Barend

    Barend
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2004
    Messages:
    804
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +9
    Gordon,
    How do you get into the service menu?
    BTW- what's this about 625? The mode is 720x576p or am I missing something?
    Anyroad- I'll wait with buying a different player methinks...
    It sure looks like an hdcp rejection, cause I see (very briefly) the Pioneer's screensaver before the funny pic appears...it's sort of a narrow colorful crosshatch snowy thing...and as you stipulate ntsc works fine!
    So it's either hdcp now or the Pio sending out too few lines...
    Please keep us posted on your Panny call results!
    Cheers
    Barend
     
  16. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    14,011
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Living in Surrey, covering UK!
    Ratings:
    +2,808
    Yes with mine I see the begginings of the Arcam splash screen before it goes sort of black and white in three images with a purple green zigg zaggy pattern over teh top.

    625 is the actual amount of lines in the signal it's just that only 576 of them usually carry pcture information. So it's often referred to as 625P rather than 576P...they are the same.....NTSC is 525/480....

    It would inappropraite for me to publish how to enter service menu's on the net as this is supposed to be privaliged iniformation. If you do a search of this forum you are bound to find the answer posted by ssomeone else though...

    Gordon
     
  17. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
    Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2002
    Messages:
    24,426
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    The Borders
    Ratings:
    +2,593
    Barend

    You may want to consider swapping Displays rather than swapping DVD player!

    If you like to 'upgrade' on a regular basis I guess for most folk a new DVD player is simpler, has more options and is less costly to 'churn' on a regular basis.

    If that's the case I feel the limitation of the TY-42TM6DB DVI card in the PWD6 may not be an ideal 'long term' solution and the upcoming PWD7 with HDMI Input card will be worth investigation.

    Best regards

    Joe

    PS There seem to be mixed results paring the DV-868AVi with the PWD6 via DVI - I've read some folk in the US saying it worked with PAL but I've never seen it myself.
     
  18. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
    Well-known Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    8,498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +827
    As Gordon has said it is the new products I meant (sorry should've been clearer). :lesson: And the Lumagen is very much NOT a converter, it is a video processor. :smashin:

    Par Example: from your DVD player the Lumagen will receive a pure digital interlaced signal via the HDMI output, this is very close to getting a completely unadulterated signal from original disc into the Lumagen. The Lumagen will then do all deinterlacing (in simple terms turning into progressive scan) and scaling (up or down scaling the image to fit the exact number of pixels on your plasma). This it does far better than the DVD player and/or plasma could do, and with the signal then being passed to the screen via DVI there are very little errors introduced in that final transfer too. The result is quite frankly a spotless picture, digitally done all the way! :thumbsup:

    As Joe says we've quickly gone from changing DVD, to adding a scaler, to perhaps even changing plasma! Might be a plan to get down exactly what you want to do in the long run and consder what the best upgrade path (and budget :rolleyes: ) for you would be. Should the next generation Panasonic feature a working HDMI socket (which I am pretty sure it will) then perhaps a new plasma then and keep the DVD for now, you will then have digital signals going in.

    The Lumagen idea is not only a means for getting your digital signal into the plasma you already have, it is a dedicated box for getting the best out of your current sources, digital or not. So this needs to be considered somewhat separately from just getting a DVI signal from DVD to screen i.e. do you want to upgrade your picture quality to the best possible level of processing whilst also being able to get an all digital signal from your current player to your current screen.
     
  19. Barend

    Barend
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2004
    Messages:
    804
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +9
    This processor looks good, but my wife will kill me if she hears the price... :zonked:
    Exchanging the plasma is out of the question for about the same reason... :suicide:
    Barend
     
  20. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
    Well-known Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    8,498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +827
    :laugh:
     
  21. Barend

    Barend
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2004
    Messages:
    804
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +9
    Already ordered a Denon DVD-3910 (due to arrive end of August) which She condoned cause it's black and She hates silver...and the German offered a low enough price so I can flog it if I need to...so anyone looking for a cheap DV868avi look on Ebay soon.. :laugh:
    Must keep Her happy cause I already filled half the living with strange boxes...

    I'll keep my fingers crossed it was the "too few lines" problem and the new Denon does a better job...

    One more thought:
    If it was some hdcp failure inside the card or the display itself, wouldn't ntsc be affected too?
    Anyroad, I'm quite happy with the fabulous 480p ntsc picture as it is so as soon as pal works I'm a happy man! :clap:
    Getting the impression the digital patch contributes more to the quality than the number of lines...although it's funny that the Pio 1920i setting looks even better than the 480p - rock stable, beautiful no-noise colors and supersharp - but I've been told 1920i can't be displayed on the Panny and it calculates it downwards.
    Barend[/QUOTE]
     

Share This Page

Loading...