No BD-J Upgrade for the PS3?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by cj, Apr 27, 2007.

  1. cj

    cj
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    Apparently the BDA has just issued the following statement to clarify the BD-J position: -

    Andy Parsons, U.S. Promotion Committee Chair, Blu-ray Disc Association:

    "Based on recent coverage, there appears to be some confusion about the implementation of BD-Java on Blu-ray Disc.

    All Blu-ray Disc players must support BD-Java (BD-J) and every one shipped to date does. The confusion surrounds an announcement by the [Blu-ray Disc Association] setting an Oct. 31 deadline for implementation of several secondary features. The deadline applies to:

    – Secondary video, also known as picture-in-picture (PiP).
    – Secondary audio.
    – Persistent memory storage (a minimum of 256MB, 1GB for players with an Internet connection).

    Of these, the PiP requirement is receiving the most attention. The PiP feature is a specific hardware function that must be built into a player, and BD-Java is simply used to operate this feature if it's present. No player shipped to date supports PiP at this time, although it's always possible that a given model has been designed to switch it on later (no company has announced this yet as far as I know).

    My point is that it's important to separate picture-in-picture and the other items listed above from BD-Java. BD-Java is one of two interactive modes that can be used on a Blu-ray Disc (the other being "HDMV" or high definition movie mode, which is similar to DVD navigational structures). All BD players must support both environments.

    If a studio offers a PiP function or other features that require the persistent memory or the ability to playback secondary video or audio streams on future BD titles, current players will not support those specific features. However, movie playback, as well as other interactive features not using these functions would be unaffected and should work as they normally would."

    http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents


    My question is this: - The PS3 is currently 98% of the BD hardware market. Why has there been no mention of the PS3 being able to support the new features?
     
  2. Avi

    Avi
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    Unfortunately the entire situation with BD profiles and optional elements is a mess and very confusing for the consumer. :(

    I wonder how many people who don't frequent these forums know that their new next gen format player may not support some of the next gen interactive features. :mad:

    AVI
     
  3. danvitale

    danvitale
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    PS3 already supports BD-J.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BD-J



    Players Supporting BD-J

    InterVideo WinDVD 8.0 (Windows, Software-based)
    CyberLink PowerDVD 6.6 BD Edition (Windows, software-based)
    Sony PlayStation 3 (hardware)
    Sony BDP-S1 (hardware)
    Samsung BDP-1000
    Panasonic DMP-BD10
    Pioneer BDP-HD1
    LG BH100 combo Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD player
    Philips BDP-9000

    Edit: As regards to the newer profile of BD-J, Sony have said a simple firmware update will be able to upgrade the console as required.. and that older players such as these above will still be able to play future titles ok.
     
  4. johnboy35

    johnboy35
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    Just looked at that site and it appears to get its info from web users so it cant be guarateed! as it states the following :This list is incomplete; you can help by expanding it. so its best to not use the info for deciding what player does what.
     
  5. Bald Monkey

    Bald Monkey
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    There is no argument over the PS3 supporting BJ Java, or many other standalones supporting BJ Java. :)


    The problem is many players do not have the necessary hardware to handle the latest interactive features on BR that happen to use BJ java to run....
    :rolleyes:
     
  6. Pecker

    Pecker
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    BUGGER!

    I was hoping this was your precis, but the following is actually a direct quote from the BDA yesterday:

    "No player shipped to date supports PiP at this time..." that includes the PS3, by the way "...although it's always possible that a given model has been designed to switch it on later (no company has announced this yet as far as I know)".

    As a PS3 owner who was expecting this to be a formality, it's a little worrying.

    Whilst it is possible that Sony have made the PS3 PinP capable, and then not bothered to tell the BDA about it, it's highly unlikely.

    "Oh sorry, the PS3 is PinP capable, we just forgot to mention it."

    I don't think so.

    Does anyone here really believe the eBDA forgot to ask?

    With PS3 sales stalling, wouldn't this be a good time to re-assure potential buyers that PinP was coming?

    Steve W
     
  7. cj

    cj
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    Actually I don't believe Sony have said this at all - where did you hear this?
     
  8. danvitale

    danvitale
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    Perhaps they're saving that for the second gen BR standalones. But from what Ive read 1st gen players can still use the majority of the features.

    I seem to remember a lot of initial DVD players had this same problem.. but I guess we're in a format war and theres people out there who would jump at a chance to use this against BluRay...
     
  9. Avi

    Avi
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    It's not BD-J per say but the soon to be mandatory interactive features of profile 1.1 or optional profile 2. Missing hardware cannot be added with a firmware update.

    It's not very reassuring that the "older" players that will not support the interactive features are the "current" standalones :(

    AVI
     
  10. cj

    cj
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    The quote is from Andy Parsons, U.S. Promotion Committee Chair, Blu-ray Disc Association - I doubt he's using it aginst Bluray ;)
     
  11. mattym

    mattym
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    i would have thought the ps3 has the grunt to do it
     
  12. Avi

    Avi
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    It's clear that there has always been a plan to make some of the interactvity features mandatory after a certain date. The issue is this is not made clear to the consumer and people standalone players today will not be able to use some of the BD disc features later in the year.

    This is not about a format war it's about providing information to enable people to make an informed decision before they spend their money.

    AVI
     
  13. Avi

    Avi
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    I agree that the PS3 is the most likely candidate to support these features of any currently available. But until Sony confirm there no way to know for sure.:(

    AVI
     
  14. cj

    cj
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    I happen to agree, but do you not think it a little strange that there's been no confirmation from Sony?
     
  15. mattym

    mattym
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    yeah it is strange.

    im trying to remember how many little windows on the XMB have video running at once, cant recall as i dont let it go long before moving to the next bit
     
  16. BadAss

    BadAss
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    The difference between the PS3 and a stand alone is the PS3's abilty to atchieve multiple stream via software. A stand alone does not have the power of the cell processor to fall back on so need a dedicated chip for the job just like HD-DVD players do.

    It's been proven in the past the PS3's abilty to play multiple HD streams so I can't see why anyone apart from HD-DVD supporters would be worried.
     
  17. LOXjet

    LOXjet
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    I can't believe I'm going to say this but... I actually agree with BadAss on this one! :eek:

    Even if the PS3 doesn't have the required hardware, it should be able to make up for it with software emulation.

    Omitting the hardware for these features and not being able to emulate it in software would be an oversight of biblical proportions IMO (and I just can't see it happening).

    However, this does leave a big question mark hanging over current Blu-ray standalones and what will happen to them in the future IMO...
     
  18. Avi

    Avi
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    Who's worried ? I've got a PS3 and would be more worried if I had one of the current BD standalones. :D

    AVI
     
  19. cj

    cj
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    OK so it's easily do-able on the PS3 - why not make a official statement saying that? Samsung have said their dual format player will be OK (I think) - why haven't Sony made an announcement?
     
  20. peterweg

    peterweg
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    Can someone point out where in the quoted article it even hints that the PS3 will not be updated. As pointed out the PS3 is oozing power and is more than capable of doing whatever is thrown at it.
     
  21. Avi

    Avi
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    Assuming it is "thrown at it". Maybe Sony will decide to throw DVD upscaling and BD 24p playback sometime as well or maybe they're saving these features for their new Samsung based standalone. :)

    AVI
     
  22. Duncan Harvey

    Duncan Harvey
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    I wonder if anyone has been able yet to verify whether Dragons Lair has a true PiP function and not just a burned in pseudo pip.

    I've read a page which had an interview with the people who put the BD of Dragons Lair together and they complimented the PS3 on a very robust implementation of BDJ, which I suppose is promising.

    We'll just have to wait and see.
     
  23. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Just because people want something and the hardware is capable of it, does not mean you will get the functionity. It may mean a lower priced product steals addition sales from a higher priced product and companies may not like doing that. Best wait for confirmation on any product that it will deliver the required functionity perhaps with a firmware upgrade at a later date, else buy what ever now and accept that anything additional is a bonus in the future.
     
  24. lgans316

    lgans316
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    Who cares about these extra stuffs. There are so many delays bcoz of this st**id thing. Normal consumers like me just want the movie with a good menu.
     
  25. Rob100

    Rob100
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    Couldn't agree more.
     
  26. cj

    cj
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    Well unfortunately neither the studios or the BDA agree with you - if no one wants the new standard, why bother getting it mandated for October 31st?

    And if you don't want these extras, then I guess a current bluray player is the perfect player for you, as you won't ever be getting them.
     
  27. lgans316

    lgans316
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    There has been lot of politics in the BDA camp hampering the progress of the format thus causing delays in some of the releases. I agree that the these formats are next gen tech and interactivity features are important to the format. But for the normal HD buffs and movie watches who couldn't care less do you think that BD-J is pivotal ?
     
  28. Avi

    Avi
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    Next gen is more than just improved PQ/AQ it also about offering a new level of experience via enhanced interactivity. This maybe of NO interest to some but this appears very import to the studios and the BDA hence the mandate. :)

    AVI
     
  29. Pecker

    Pecker
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    Extras sell.

    Extras aren't free, they cost the studios money.

    If they didn't sell, they'd have stopped including them on SD DVD a long time ago.

    Extras often don't bother me, but I'd hate to think there was any possibility that a feature might not be available to me in the future.

    Steve W
     
  30. TrevorS

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    When the above poster said "grunt", I interpreted him and now you as meaning processor power. However, the BDA is saying no player currently has the necessary hardware to support the functionality. That implies to me some specialized hardware function is required, not just cpu cycles. (Specialized hardware can be MUCH faster and more efficient than a general purpose cpu, and remember the application is real time video -- very high bandwidth stuff).

    Just read this:
    May I ask what proof is being referred to here? Thanks! :)
     

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