Nissan Leaf 30kwh - the long journey test

Discussion in 'Hybrid, PHEV & EV Electric Cars Forum' started by jassco, Jul 3, 2017.

  1. Alan CD

    Alan CD
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    I know about the battery safety reserve required, however I can only work on the info provided. So if the info I get says it takes 8 - 9 hours to trickle charge the 30kWh Leaf I can only assume the time stated includes the battery reserve.

    Also I know the Leaf or any other EV does not let you go to 0% discharge so can only assume you are exaggerating to make a point.

    However your 14 hour trickle charge time using a 3-pin plug tells a story. In fact not a positive story as 14 hours is a long time and closely matches the 16 - 17 hours to fully recharge a 60kWh Leaf I mentioned in my post.
     
  2. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    Can I turn it on it's head and ask what your driving pattern is likely to be be Alan? Our 24kWh Leaf has a 3kW charger on board, so that constrains the charging rate, not whether it's plugged into a 32A, 16A or 13A supply and generally, we are looking at a 6h charge to fill it up as we don't run it down all the way before plugging it in.
     
  3. Alan CD

    Alan CD
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    If I purchase a full EV next year it will be my only car - no safety net of also owning an ICE in case of suddenly having to make another journey after just plugging in the EV to recharge.

    Secondly I travel to York several times a year and I do it at night without stopping and that will continue. There is also the yearly holiday at various seaside towns/cities.

    The rest of the car use is for routine visits/shopping/restaurants/cinema etc. All local journeys within 20 miles radius so no problem.
     
  4. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    Ah, I can see why that magic 150 mile range is an issue then :) I know it sounds like cheating, but Nissan will lend you you an ICE for occasional trips, it might be worth looking into that for your York excursions ie check that's still on offer.
     
  5. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    Remind us how much the 3 will cost :) while remembering, first and foremost, that there are Tesla threads in the forum to enthuse in ;)
     
  6. Alan CD

    Alan CD
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    The Tesla 3 UK price will be about £35,000 when it's released in the UK towards the end of 2018. Reading the on-line reviews and the word affordable is shown as 'affordable'. However it is likely to sell handsomely.

    Anyway back to the Nissan Leaf. I've read Nissan have built and tested a 48kWh Leaf prototype and are intending to produce it later in the year as a special version called 'Black Edition'. However I have my doubts this will see the light of day, especially on UK roads.

    A 48kWh Nissan Leaf would meet my needs as it would do the 150 miles to York with room to spare.
     
  7. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    They had a Black Edition in the Showroom, but with a standard battery. It did amuse me that, for years, colour coded wing mirrors and spoilers etc have been an extra, and for this they have given it black mirrors and spoiler :D
     
  8. Alan CD

    Alan CD
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    :)

    Well, Nissan are not best bet for cutting-edge sales pitch, they are good at boring value-for-money production cars with maybe a touch of initiative flare.
     
  9. gangzoom

    gangzoom
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    Nissan have actually fitted a 60kWh battery into a Leaf chassis with only marginal increase in size/weight as long ago as 2015!!

    The reason we don't have a 60kWh Leaf on the roads yet is simply down to cost. Tesla can 'get away' with charging £50K+ for a 60kWh car because of they operate in the 'premium' segment. No one is ever going to pay £40K for a Leaf regardless of battery size.

    Nissan's 60-kWh, 200-Mile Battery Pack: What We Know So Far

    No one is quite sure just how many kWhs the new Leaf will have, but I do really really hope Nissan puts active temperature management in the new battery packs. What I've learnt from my EV experience is absolute MAX range in summer is pretty irrelevant, it's actually the MINIMAL winter range that matters the most!!!

    Low temperatures don't just effect battery discharge efficiency but it really slows down rapid charging. In summer spending 30 minutes at a 50KW Ecotricity 'pump' will get you 80ish miles of range, in winter the same time might only add 40-50 miles of range.

    We might share some views about EVs, but all I'm doing is giving some real life experiences. This winter just gone my 24kWh Leaf consumed 80% of it's charge in just 50 miles, and that was with really careful driving AND preheating the car whilst plugged in so the cabin was up to temp. So even doubling the battery capacity to 48kWh will only get you 100 miles before you hit the 20% state of charge ......Trust me you will have some serious range anxiety at that stage, been stuck in rain/cold, turning off the heater, worrying even about heater, throw in an unexpected diversion and your looking at a low wait for a low loader!!!

    If Nissan do add some kind of temperature management system it would make the Leaf much more usable in winter, yes your take an initial hit to 'warm' up the battery but that can be done when the car is still plugged in, so once your up and moving your take much less of a hit from the efficiency side due to temp drops.


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
  10. Alan CD

    Alan CD
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    I'm well aware how and why EV battery packs loose efficiency when temperatures are very low. Mentioned and queried it in several previous posts. Nothing new there.

    This is an interesting little article:
    Do Electric Cars Work in Cold Weather? Get the Facts...

    "Warming the battery pack takes power that reduces range. Heating the cabin and battery combined can increase the auxiliary power load on an EV like the Nissan LEAF from below 1kW to almost 3kW as the temp goes from 68ºF to 10ºF."

    "For a longer range EV, like the Tesla Model S or the upcoming Chevy Bolt, the impact of cold weather is likely to be less of an issue. These cars have more total range available, so any loss of range will impact driving utility less and offer drivers ample battery capacity to run both the motor and heaters for extended drives. For example, Telsa reports that their Model S 70D model loses about 19% range when driving in 0 degree Fahrenheit weather with the heater on, reducing the range to 195 miles."
     
  11. outoftheknow

    outoftheknow
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    The battery conditioning is almost certainly to do with reducing shock on the Li-ion batteries. As the article quoted by @Alan CD mentions you don't get anything for nothing in electrics. I doubt Nissan will add too much battery conditioning until they get to around 60KW. Then as also mentioned in the arcticle the power losses aren't so noticeable.
     
  12. jassco

    jassco
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    This is an interesting point that we've discussed about ownership. We expect that maybe once in two years of living in this house with our baby we've had to do this, but never long distances. Assuming it even happens once a year (eg trip to A&E), then we've accepted it may happen, and we'd have to get a taxi if battery was completely flat.

    Anyway, we've now paid the deposit for the car in red, acenta, and will sort out the finances etc next week. We've asked for it to be collected start of September and we got the deal we wanted. It's a different garage to the one that messed us about though! This garage is 40 miles away so I'd still be able to get a loan car from them if needed for longer trips.

    Do pod point come assess location for installation first? Our preferred place is on the side of the porch but it'd be about knee level so might be too low. The only other place (other than being in the garage) would need a drainpipe rerouting
     
  13. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    Prior to installation we were just asked whether our preferred location was within 10 metres of the meter, whether the cable would be run internally or externally and to confirm we had off road parking.
     
  14. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    Height requirements here:

    upload_2017-7-16_9-56-18.png
    This is to avoid danger of vehicle collision, so they might make an exception if it's somewhere a vehicle couldn't hit it.
     
  15. jassco

    jassco
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    Cheers, guess we'll have to wait and see. Hoping I don't have to move the drainpipe as it's the main downpipe from the front of the roof, and it'd need to be cut about 2.5m up, probably in situ if doing it myself
     
  16. jassco

    jassco
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    Picked ours up yesterday and already done 100 miles in it. 60 of those were returning home from the garage on mostly dual carriageways, and arrived with 75 still remaining.

    Attached a pic from a funny angle but will get a proper one up when I can.

    The charge point at home will be installed on Wednesday, and they've confirmed it can go low to the ground on the side of the porch.

    I also made my first attempt at charging in public using a type 2. Can someone help me out though as I clearly did something wrong as it didn't charge. I followed the instructions - plugged the car in, scanned my card and it displayed the amount of charge provided so far (0). It also showed the message and it was something like 'begin charging' but I couldn't see any buttons to press, and scanning may card finished the charging session. The confusing thing was that one of the lights on the dashboard was flashing, indicating a charge but when I got back an hour later it hadn't changed. Any thoughts?

    IMG_20170902_153557407.jpg
     
  17. craigy_b

    craigy_b
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    What cables did your new car come with? Mine is waiting to be picked up but I've been advised to wait until our pod point is fitted but if it has a trickle charger I think I'll just collect it this week.
     
  18. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    It comes with a cable with a 13A plug, so you should be fine charging it before the pod point is installed. It also comes with a second cable for connecting to some network charging points. I think it plugs into the same "trickle" socket as the 13A cable and the pod point do.
     
  19. jassco

    jassco
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    Yup this
     
  20. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    Can't help with your problem jassco as we've only charged at home, but it does remind me that we ought to try out a local charging station to familiarise ourselves with how the things work before we need to use one.
     
  21. outoftheknow

    outoftheknow
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    I think that "trickle socket" is the type 1 AC socket IG? Can be up to 32A if you have taken the option on the car for 6.6KW charging. The other one is DC rapid charging and is up to 100A/50KW I believe. The standard onboard AC charger is 3.6KW or 16A so that is what the public charger needs to output. Obviously when you use the special 3 pin plug cable the car senses the cable and limits to 10A or thereabouts. Same if you have the 6.6KW option and 32A type 2 to type 1 cable - the car senses the bigger cable and allows the higher charge - all through the one AC socket on the car. At least that's what I have gleaned over time :)

    It sounds like @jassco found a tricky or even broken public charging point maybe? Presumably there is nothing special to do with the Nissan supplied type 2 to type 1 cable before first use? What type of charger was it - maybe others have learned a trick with that make of charger?
     
  22. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    The AC socket is "smart" and it has five pins. The extra pins I assume are for data and it won't pass a current until it's happy.

    Then there is the fast charger socket...

    Not even dared to open that yet :D
     
  23. outoftheknow

    outoftheknow
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    But if you can find a fast DC charger, that can fully chrge your car in 30 minutes :) regardless of any battery conditioning the Leaf has or doesn't have, science suggest that would affect the number of charge cycles they can stand though.

    That kind of fast charging just opens another can of worms in the 'how long will my batteries last' debate. And no I am not inviting a discussion here - just saying :D
     
  24. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    Additionally, fast chargers aren't free and often cost considerably more than trickle charging at home. So the only reason we would ever use one would be if we needed to do more miles than were available in the battery in a single day. As a two car family, that is likely to be a rare event.
     
  25. jassco

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    2nd attempt to public charge is another failure - not going well so far! Exact same problem but different location, so I phoned the company up and they said it's showing as not in service. I must have been really unlucky to hit 2/2 though. Only positive is that I've left the cable in so I've got free parking
     
  26. gangzoom

    gangzoom
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    Spotted what I'm 90% sure is a next gen Leaf testing on UK roads. Have to say the new design is rather mundane...but I suppose that was the idea, as the current one was designed to look 'odd'.

    [​IMG]
     
  27. IronGiant

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    Nice spot!!
     

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