Nice democracy we live in ...

[Ethics Gradient]

New Labour ..... pfft

for those that said these new anti terror laws are fine , its 'if you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear'

.... well not if you are an 82 year old pensioner who heckels a Labour Cabinet minister.

not only was he 'roughed up abit', but he was held under the anti terrorism rules for a short period of time ...


.... thought the laws were to deal with mad terrorist ? rather than people expressing their rights to free speach.

Seems more like new fascism than new labour.... i really do fear for the future.

 

[Moosh]

Yup, I saw this and couldn't believe it! I was really shocked.

 

[overkill]

Seems more like new fascism than new labour.... i really do fear for the future.

A heckler was violently manhandled out of the Tory party conference during the late 80's. Did that inspire 'fears for the future'? Nor did it get mass coverage. In fact as I remember the Tory press applauded.........

Now, with that slightly (but only slightly) OTT reaction by my old mate dealt with , I was truly appalled by what happened. Someone should be sacked for that disgraceful behaviour.

Can we start with the cabinet? After Browns 'echo's of Thatcher' speech the other day, they've even lost my vote.

Oh, and I do agree though Ethics, the use of the anti terrorism act was an abuse of power par excellence.

Just a shame there's no credible alternative to the New Tori... er, Labour. Kennedy, get your ass into gear.........

 

[Ethics Gradient]

A heckler was violently manhandled out of the Tory party conference during the late 80's. Did that inspire 'fears for the future'? Nor did it get mass coverage. In fact as I remember the Tory press applauded.........

was he 82 and upset about the government taking us into an illegal war that has spiralled into chaos and some say is responsable at least in part for a spate of terrorist bombings in the UK carried out by UK citizens ?

I don't care a jot about what happened with x y z party - regardless of how bad others might have been or even still be - that is NO excuse and should not remotely detract from the fact that this was a disgusting abuse.

 

[overkill]

I don't care a jot about what happened with x y z party - regardless of how bad others might have been or even still be - that is NO excuse and should not remotely detract from the fact that this was a disgusting abuse.

Oh I quite agree. I don't however see it as 'a threat to our way of life'.

As I said, it was a shocking display of OTT bullying. Going on the angry reaction of most the delegates, it also shows just how far out of touch Blair and his gang are with Labour.

No way I'm defending Blurt and co in way on this one Ethics.

 

[la gran siete]

it was disgusting no doubt about it. Even Labour activists were saying so.Someone should be brought to account

 

[overkill]

Someone should be brought to account

110% agreed. Shame they can't sack the man who's ethos is (mis)directing the party to do things like that.

 

[The Dude]

yep... pretty much the pits wasn't it...

 

[PaulaB]

Another member Steve Forest was kicked out for critising the man being thrown out. New labour can't handle critisism can it!

 

[Nick_UK]

Another member Steve Forest was kicked out for critising the man being thrown out. New labour can't handle critisism can it!

Ah, but it can ! Very forcefully ! All we need are the jack boots and a swastika to replace the red rose

Apparently the "stewards" were volunteers, which practically ensures that you get thugs who enjoy roughing people up

 

[William123]

Couldn't believe what I was seeing, those gross bouncers would have scared the out of any Glaswegian punters after a few pints at their local watering hole. Thank god that old gent never suffered heart failure.

I'm sick of this control freak government and the arseholes in it that rule over us.

 

[John]

Is the Steward getting any blame in this ?

John

 

[shahedz]

i read about it today and they had a pricture of the frail 82 year old, i cant belive it!! that is disgusting!! if that was done else where the people involved would get charge with GBH or ABH ( dont know the difference-can someone enlighten me here please)

 

[Ethics Gradient]

i read about it today and they had a pricture of the frail 82 year old, i cant belive it!! that is disgusting!! if that was done else where the people involved would get charge with GBH or ABH ( dont know the difference-can someone enlighten me here please)

Its different if the people involved work for the establishment, they can rough up people or even shoot them in the head and the government and its representatives will make excuses, hum and har and pass the buck.

I'm just waiting for Tony Blair to mustard gass attack parts of Scotland and change his name to Tony Sadman Insane Blair - I mean we've done the street executions, torture, internment without trial, illegal invasions of other countries, beating up old men for speaking out etc.

 

[overkill]

Another member Steve Forest was kicked out for critising the man being thrown out. New labour can't handle critisism can it!

Labour can stand criticism, the leadership can't. I think the answer therefore is obvious.

I mean we've done the street executions

This is why Ethics, I can't take you seriously at times. I was unhappy about that incident as the next man. But let's see what comes out (if anything) before making sweeping statements about 'executions'.

At the end of the day, if people are geniunely afraid of the way the govt is going then in four years time we will (hopefully) see a new one. Whether that will bring much of a change (unless we get a hung parliament) remains very much to be seen.

People have been putting up with heavy handed, oppressive, UK govt for twenty seven odd years now. It's time for a real change.

 

[bjd]

Apart from the obvious repulsion about the actual ejection, for me the most worrying thing was the use of anti-terror laws to hold him afterwards. So, they're not really anti-terror laws at all, but laws that police can simply invoke no matter what the situation. For those who see no need for concern about civil liberties in Britain, I think you should take a close look at what happened, and consider the implications. As EG points out, the notion that "I've done nothing wrong, so I have nothing to fear" is laughable naivety.

 

[overkill]

For those who see no need for concern about civil liberties in Britain, I think you should take a close look at what happened, and consider the implications.

Agreed. What does concern me even more is that this has been going on for a long while now. Amnesty international heavily criticised the last govt (and this) for eroding civil liberties and were told to bog off in no uncertain terms. The 95' policing bill in particular, came in for heavy criticism from civil liberties groups with the right to search properties without a warrant, if the Police think they have sufficent grounds, coming in for severe stick.

At least with Tony's shower the media seem willing to pick up on potenial abuse, and people seem (not all Ethic's, I agree) to be interested in what's happening to them. In the 80's it just seemed to pass them by.

What's needed is more people getting actively involved to stop the rot now.

Perhaps this incident is the wake up call?

 

[Ed Selley]

Perhaps this incident is the wake up call?

I suspect that Britney Spears offspring will replace it at the top of the news tree before you can say "vacuous cult of celebrity."

 

[Nick_UK]

People have been putting up with heavy handed, oppressive, UK govt for twenty seven odd years now. It's time for a real change.

Oh, please don't suggest the chubby Scotsman

 

[overkill]

Oh, please don't suggest the chubby Scotsman

I wasn't nick. See my earlier post on Brown. We need a 'night of the long knives' to sweep away the whole 'Blairite' cabinet. Sadly no-one in the cabinet has the b*lls to lead it. It's become like Thatchers later cabinets. Packed full of 'yes' men.

At least the guy got an apology from Blair himself - whatever that's worth.

 

[vonhosen]

if that was done else where the people involved would get charge with GBH or ABH ( dont know the difference-can someone enlighten me here please)

Definitely not GBH you are talking serious injury & to be charged with ABH you would need some lasting injury (although this can be a non physically visible injuries, such as in mental torture with lasting damage).

With regards to evicting someone you can use such force as is reasonable & necessary to evict a trespasser who will not leave.

All that said I agree with everybody else here that what occured was disgraceful & I personally believe the government apology was in no way sincere, just a damage limitation exercsie because of the disgust felt by the public at this governments behaviour in both this & general.

 

[Nick_UK]

It was not GBH, but it was assault. Which is probably the reason why party officials have been falling over each other to apologise ?

How can someone be trespassing at a Labour Party conference, when he's a paid-up party member, and has been a member of the Labour party longer than Tony Blair has been on the planet ?

 

[Garrett]

How can someone be trespassing at a Labour Party conference, when he's a paid-up party member, and has been a member of the Labour party longer than Tony Blair has been on the planet ?

There lies the crutch, he was not at a Labour party, it was the New Tory party, but with the fascist bully boy tactics of arresting him under a prevention terrorist act. I leave it up to your imagination what to call them now.

 

[vonhosen]

It was not GBH, but it was assault. Which is probably the reason why party officials have been falling over each other to apologise ?

How can someone be trespassing at a Labour Party conference, when he's a paid-up party member, and has been a member of the Labour party longer than Tony Blair has been on the planet ?

It is assault if the force used is excessive of that which was needed in order to lawfully evict. The more someone resists the greater the level of force that can be used to force the eviction, but it can only obviously be proportional to the level of resistance given.

Whether he makes himself a trespasser or not depends on whether he breaches the rules of the organisation. I would imagine that with the current government dissent would definitely be in breach of the rules & then render you liable to being treated as a trespasser.

This is of course from a legal viewpoint, not a moral one, as I would in no way support what happened & would view heckling Jack Straw as compulsory anyway.

 

[overkill]

There lies the crutch, he was not at a Labour party, it was the New Tory party

Not really Garrett. The conference is for THE Labour party not just Blair and the cabinet. They (increasingly) represent only a small section of the whole Labour movement. Even then I would say that the Labour grass roots sees them in exactly the way you do. Hence why the guy got booted out in the first place, and then got a huge round of applause when being allowed back in. The Tories by contrast are at least in step with their grass roots. God forbid......

I hate to say it, but the cynical side of me wonders if this whole thing was a stunt to divert attention way from Blair and Browns unpopular policies and the fact that Labour aren't happy with them. Surely not eh...............

would view heckling Jack Straw as compulsory anyway

Should that be mandatory?