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Next move for Video

Discussion in 'TAG McLaren Audio Owners' Forum' started by PhilCTTE, Nov 17, 2004.

  1. PhilCTTE

    PhilCTTE
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    Just a quick post (as the works t'internet police are monitoring), I have a PSM upgrade made to my DVD32 and wondered what would be the next step in video scaling. I'm trying to improve the quality of SKY + feed. I'm routing the SKY + thru the PSM and output DVI >> HDMI input on a PIONEER 504.

    Watching SKY sports footy is bl**dy awful, definition is lost and the pitch becomes all fuzzy. DVD's are fine as expected.

    I can't see myself upgrading to the AV192 with the VSM scaler. Are there any other options?. Not that technically minded when it comes to the video side of things, so would appreciate any thoughts here. It seems that a lot of scalers on the market integrate the progressive scan as part of the process.

    Budget would stretch upto about £800... times are hard
     
  2. simon40

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    Phil,
    What about getting a demo of a Lumagen scaler - try Gordon at Convergent.

    Or you could go down the HTPC route, but this would replace the DVD32, and probably include a bit of 'brain scratching' (just ask Graham :) )

    Simon
     
  3. Thunder

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    Or an I Scan HD+ :thumbsup:
     
  4. PhilCTTE

    PhilCTTE
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    I guess my main worry is that I dont want to make the DVD32 with PSM redundant as I know the Iscan contains progressive scan ... I'm sure I've heard that the scaler process to increase the definition normally is integrated with the progressive scan part ? Or have I got hold of the wrong end of the wrong stick ? :suicide:
     
  5. Plump

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    Time made DVD32R redundant, not you or anyone else.
    I also have the same here, PSM that I do not need anymore.

    I would go for Lumagen, those people are trying their best to do all necessary updates. Hope they will have better destiny than TAG.
     
  6. PhilCTTE

    PhilCTTE
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    Regarding HTPC ... aren't these lowfi products ? (fire suit on) I thought that the whole data retrieval and analogue conversion in real time to avoid jitter etc ... is a tricky process to get right. Which is why so much effort has been put into the build of the DVD32R in both the mechanics of the laser and draw components, and the electronic components inside ?
     
  7. Thunder

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    I would say that its best to keep your video processing outside your DVD player. This means when video processing technology gets better all you have to do is change the scaler, rather than being left with internal processing that has been made redundant :) The analogue component interlaced output of the DVD32R is still matched by very few other video sources :thumbsup: The I Scan HD+ does indeed use the SIL504 deinterlacer as used in the PSM192 which shows you how good it must be to have lasted this long :D But the I Scan also adds to this scaling in order to lift the resolution to 720p or 1080i. You can still feed the I Scan with a progressive feed from your DVD32R its just that you wont be using the SIL504 within the I Scan. There arnt many scalers that dont contain a deinterlacer as usually the image has to be deinterlaced before it can be scaled in the first place :smashin:
     
  8. Thunder

    Thunder
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    The general opinion seems to be that HTPCs can acheive good picture quality for a relatively low price, where they fall down is audio :( Although Grahams little project seems to be making some progress on the audio side of things :D
     
  9. PhilCTTE

    PhilCTTE
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    I will try and get hold of an "I Scan HD+" for a demo. Where can I get hold of this and how much is it ? Is there a version without the de-interlacer ?

    TIA...
     
  10. PhilCTTE

    PhilCTTE
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    Regards the PSM in the DVD player .. I agree with that , but didnt have a choice as I couldnt afford the AV192 and it didnt fit in the AV32... :thumbsdow
     
  11. Thunder

    Thunder
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    It omly comes in one version mate :D A good place to have a look for one would be www.ivojo.co.uk or www.nexnix.co.uk :thumbsup:
     
  12. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    I think the Sil504 is still top notch in a sort of love it or hate it kind of way, the other contener is DCDi, horses for courses....
    I think just about all scalers these days only work on a de-interlaced signal so I suppose standalone units will always have both.... Nothing to stop you using the internal PSM though as the de-interlacer built into the Iscan will simply let the de-interlaced signal through. The scaling will improve the picture of SKY but don't expect miracles there is only so much to begin with...... I'd also have a word with Gordon and discuss the Lumagen, you never know ;)

    As for HTPC, you can feed SKY into that if you like and you can get a very good picture output with a bit of effort. Sound can also be pretty good but rather hard work, video from DVD or hard disk based files is well above most standalone DVD players now nad with a decent front end very family frendly...
     
  13. PhilCTTE

    PhilCTTE
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    Thanks for that Graham . I've made the call to Gordon awaiting reply. Anybody had the chance to compare the PSM to the deinterlacing features of Iscan or Lumagen products.... Might well be worth the effort in getting Gordon in to do the calibrating and demoing, if it's not to expensive. Mind you I haven't had chance to use the TMReq features on the AV32 yet... bit silly really having all this equipment, but not having the time to configure it. I wonder if IAG still offer the TMReq visits... anybody fancy freelancing ?
     
  14. GrahamMG

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    The Iscan uses the Sil504 just like the PSM so should be about the same, don;t know what the Lumagen uses but from what Gordon says I think it might be different..... Gordon does a good job just make sure he is down your way anyway as it is a long way from Scotland.... ;)
    As for freelancing, I'd ring Barry and see if he still does this, you won't believe what its "costing" Edward to have Steve and I round next month including getting a Chef in to cook us a meal no less........:D
     
  15. Barry.NI

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    PhilAllaway,

    I would be interested to know how you have wired up your SKY box into the DVD player. Looking at some old TAG notes on the PSM in the DVD32R, it only shows either composite or S-Video inputs from other sources, if this is the case, there must be some loss of definition, by not using the SKY RGB output. I have the PSM in the processor, with a Scart to RGBS from SKY+ into the PSM. This is then fed to the Plasma Panny TH-42PW4 with an RGBHV cable. Whilst I appreciate that a 42" screen is more forgiving of errors in the signal, thanj a 50", I believe that I get an excellent picture on all channels including the football from a viewing distance of 3 metres. As you are in putting the PSM with analogue from the sky, have you tried analogue into the Pioneer, thus saving a DAC step? Then the DVI input on the plasma, could be soley for DVDs. This seems so obvious, that I feel I may be missing something!

    The TMREQ visits are still available, I have one booked in December.

    Barry
     
  16. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
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    Any SKY feeed into a 50" plasma is going to look a bit grim without serious help in the scaling department but even then you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear..... Don't even get me started on freeview into the same size screen..... Talk to Gordon and get a good scaler it will help.....
     
  17. Bogi

    Bogi
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    Well, I have the Lumagen Vision (the standard version) which also includes the Sil504. However, with the latest software it's an incredible machine. I compare it to a HTPC but without the hassle of revving up a computer. Gordon can fill you in on the latest versions coming out, but the standard one I have is really, really impressive.

    Current set up: I run component to the Lumagen from my universal Pio 757ai DVD player (well, Tag never delivered a uni-player) as well as s-video from DVD player to AV32DP unit. All other video sources are routed via s-video to the DP unit and then s-video to Lumagen. From the Lumagen I use a VGA splitter cable so one signal (VGA-VGA cable) goes to my LCD panel in my bedroom and the other goes to my CRT proj (Electrohome) via VGA->5 BNC cable. From time to time I use an adapter to hook in my LCD projector instead of the CRT.

    Thanks to the features of the DP and the Lumagen (which of course can autolock to different scanning frequencies for PAL and NTSC and is just loaded with tweaking features) everything works really nice.

    Needless to say, I'm really happy with the picture quality (although I got a weird vertical edge line on the green CRT tube after a master reset on the CRT proj I haven't figured out yet).

    I've helped friends calibrating LCD screens as well as plasma screens. However, the pic I get from the Lumagen to a panny AE100 is more stable than from an expensive new 42" plasma without the scaler (haven't tried the plasma with the scaler - ought to be great).

    So the idea of having an external scaler/deinterlacer is really user friendly. You can keep you DVD player and change the scaler/interlacer if need be.

    Oh, BTW: I'm running 768p to the LCD panel and 720p to the LCD and CRT proj.

    Cheers
     

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