Next Gen Formats - Offer Enough Advantages?

Blump

Novice Member
If i remember back like 10 years ago when DVD was starting to emerge in the same way the 2 new optical formats are, there were numerous advantages of the DVD format over the aging VHS that made not only enthusiasts salivate at the prospect of starting a new collections but also the general public, with advantages/ features that were really beneficial, e.g.

pq
audio quality
seperate channels for surround sound
multiple subtitles
menus
bonus features, deleted scenes, directors commentary etc
smaller than vhs
chapters
crisp pausing and fast forwarding
didnt wear out and would last forever(ish)


...I could go on and probably triple the size of that list and i'm sure people could add even more to that list.

The thing is, i've not seen this kind of jump, or anywhere near this kind of jump with the new formats, as far as I can tell its 'just' pq, audio quality and menus that have been improved.

Is there a lot more i'm missing? I mean, for people that are interested in A.V ala enthusiasts the few advantages that the new formats bring are probably worth the upgrade but for the general public i'm not convinced people will easily adopt the new format hardware or start their collections over again.

Thoughts?
 

Duncan Harvey

Novice Member
"just" the pq is more than enough for me!!

its a great leap forward.

Uncompressed or non-lossy compressed sound is also a great benefit.
 
People have made this argument before, and I said that I could not see much difference between DVD, and VHS. I only bought DVD to get rid of some scanlines from the bottom of my VHS picture (and that was only because my VHS player was faulty), and so that my movies would not decay over time, and so that I could have some nice still frames.

I still continued to buy VHS movies..(I bought about 20 VHS last year! and yes of course I had a DVD player as well) I still have been watching VHS up until two months ago when I got a 50 inch screen. Ok so 50 inch screens destroy the VHS picture, but 32 inch screens look fine to me.

It is the 50 inch screen that has made Hi-Def more important to me than SD DVD, and to me it is has a greater level of improvement as DVD had over VHS on a 32 inch screen.

That's the difference really.. it's the increase in screen sizes that is multiplying the improved picture quality.
 

Duncan Harvey

Novice Member
Well DVD offered anamorphic playback which was vitally important.

I had a huge VHS collection but junked it whilst it still held a little value between 97 and 99, and got my first DVD player in October 97.

DVD was a massive leap forwards, and HD is the same for me.

Agree that a bigger screen makes a bigger difference, but I can see clear improvements on smaller screens as well.
 

JP73

Novice Member
People have made this argument before, and I said that I could not see much difference between DVD, and VHS. I only bought DVD to get rid of some scanlines from the bottom of my VHS picture (and that was only because my VHS player was faulty), and so that my movies would not decay over time, and so that I could have some nice still frames.

I still continued to buy VHS movies..(I bought about 20 VHS last year!) I still have been watching VHS up until two months ago when I got a 50 inch screen. Ok so 50 inch screens destroy the VHS picture, but 32 inch screens look fine to me.

It is the 50 inch screen that has made Hi-Def more important to me than SD DVD, and to me it is has a greater level of improvement as DVD had over VHS on a 32 inch screen.

That's the difference really.. it's the increase in screen sizes that is multiplying the improved picture quality.
The thing that took me from vhs to DVD, via laserdisc was the availability of movies that were unavailable at the time here such as the Exorcist, Clockwork Orange, Reservoir Dogs etc. (these were the days before t'internet was widely used so I didn't even know Amazon.com existed) I honestly couldn't see a huge leap in PQ at the time, but I was using a small tv:D
For the OP, I agree with Pincho Paxton, have a look at some good HD material on a 50 inch screen...you will be sold on it:)
 

Rasczak

Distinguished Member
There is no denying that the new formats, for the "average consumer with an average TV" do not give such a big jump from VHS to DVD - and even to this day I'm not convinced it was the 'improved picture' of DVD that sold it to the masses as opposed to the 'CD like' experience of the format and the ability to get rid of clunky tapes and rewinding.

But what is certain is the growing numbers who own a HDTV will see some benefit - and AV fans will be blown away with PQ/AQ - so hopefully we'll see a slow but steady adoption of the new formats.
 
Well DVD offered anamorphic playback which was vitally important.

I had a huge VHS collection but junked it whilst it still held a little value between 97 and 99, and got my first DVD player in October 97.

DVD was a massive leap forwards, and HD is the same for me.

Agree that a bigger screen makes a bigger difference, but I can see clear improvements on smaller screens as well.
Widescreen has a purpose, and the purpose of Widescreen was to fill your periferral vision. When DVD came out with its anamorphic displays the tv's were about 28 inch at most. A 28 inch tv cannot fill your periferral vision so the anamorphic effect ruined the film for me. I never did like widescreen. I preferred 4:3 fullscreen.

Now that I have a 50 inch screen, widescreen actually fills my periferral vision, therefore anamorphic displays are relevent to me.

Ok, now I know that my opinion on this is fairly one off on these forums, but it works quite well with the general public.
 

JP73

Novice Member
There is no denying that the new formats, for the "average consumer with an average TV" do not give such a big jump from VHS to DVD - and even to this day I'm not convinced it was the 'improved picture' of DVD that sold it to the masses as opposed to the 'CD like' experience of the format and the ability to get rid of clunky tapes and rewinding.

But what is certain is the growing numbers who own a HDTV will see some benefit - and AV fans will be blown away with PQ/AQ - so hopefully we'll see a slow but steady adoption of the new formats.
Totally true...DVD offered a very user friendly alternative to VHS. The marketing bods are going to have a tough time selling it to the average consumer. People already think that they are watching HD DVD with a standard dvd on their "hi-def" telly. There have even been posters on these boards wondering why King Kong HDDVD wasn't playing on their upscaling dvd player!
 

JP73

Novice Member
Widescreen has a purpose, and the purpose of Widescreen was to fill your periferral vision. When DVD came out with its anamorphic displays the tv's were about 28 inch at most. A 28 inch tv cannot fill your periferral vision so the anamorphic effect ruined the film for me. I never did like widescreen. I preferred 4:3 fullscreen.

Now that I have a 50 inch screen, widescreen actually fills my periferral vision, therefore anamorphic displays are relevent to me.

Ok, now I know that my opinion on this is fairly one off on these forums, but it works quite well with the general public.
I had a very early widescreen tv, a Nokia (yes, Nokia did make tellys before they discovered mobile phones) and can remember watching Lawrence of Arabia on widescreen VHS where the picture was around 5 inches high, the rest of the screen being filled with the black bars! Worst thing was, I thought it was great at the time!
 
I had a very early widescreen tv, a Nokia (yes, Nokia did make tellys before they discovered mobile phones) and can remember watching Lawrence of Arabia on widescreen VHS where the picture was around 5 inches high, the rest of the screen being filled with the black bars! Worst thing was, I thought it was great at the time!
I bought Lost In Space as my first DVD movie. My 28inch TV could switch from 4:3 to 6:9 widescreen. However, I did not know that my DVD player could be set to only show 4:3, so I watched Lost In Space in Widescreen, which had black bars, and was about 12 inch high. I was rather frustrated sitting 2 ft away from the screen trying to fill my periferral vision as you are supposed to do. I didn't really enjoy the film at all. It took me a week to find the 4:3 setting on the DVD player. Then I watched Lost In Space again, and really enjoyed the experience.
 

Sonic67

Banned
As HD DVD/Blue Ray is backwards compatible the take up is different. With video recorders & DVD you had to buy all your films in a new format. Here you can still play your old DVDs. So it's evolution not revolution.
 
As HD DVD/Blue Ray is backwards compatible the take up is different. With video recorders & DVD you had to buy all your films in a new format. Here you can still play your old DVDs. So it's evolution not revolution.
I never bought a movie that I already had on VHS. And the opposite, I am very likely to buy some HD movies that I already have on DVD.
 

Sonic67

Banned
Well I have VHS and DVD versions of Aliens, Evil Dead, Platoon and Star Wars Trilogy. I also have a video CD and DVD version of Apocalypse Now.
 

MI55ION

Distinguished Member
As HD DVD/Blue Ray is backwards compatible the take up is different. With video recorders & DVD you had to buy all your films in a new format. Here you can still play your old DVDs. So it's evolution not revolution.
Think it's a bit of both actually because those that brought this new tech to the market anticipated it was too early for the majority to start over again and in fear of inducing buyer apathy they had to take a different approach. Yes HD DVD/BR are both backwards compatible with DVDs and CDs however in order to benefit from HD DVD/BR there is a revolutional call for you to dump your old kit and replace them with all things HD ready/hdmi equipped. For the general public to benefit it starts with a new 'bigger' HD Ready tv that creates the need for better source material and of course once that happens, then the wheels begin to turn.... to benefit from HD PQ/SQ they'll also require a HD source component at the minimum, and for us av geeks that also includes new av receiver, better speakers, cables, etc etc. And before anyone jumps the gun...yes I know you could use analogue for audio but how many sets of 5.1/7.1 analogue inputs are there on the average av receiver and how much more cabling would you need? :eek:

Having said all this I totally understand where the OP is coming from. My understanding is that for both formats to stand a chance it all starts with creating that NEED, that need for a better format starts with Tv screens bigger than 32" (being generous). However with the majority of people satisfied with their 32" CRT, I too believe it'll be one hell of task convincing JP to adopt HD the way they did with DVD. Although we are already seeing some no name brands, until we get a minimum 42" hd ready flat screen TVs drop in price to around £400-£600 from more mainstream manufacturers, there'll be no sudden uptake to HDDVD/BR. We must keep in mind though all this is based on the assumption that JP cares about PQ and they don't just remain content with the fuzzy, grainy, blurry picture on their new 42" panny.
 
Well I have VHS and DVD versions of Aliens, Evil Dead, Platoon and Star Wars Trilogy. I also have a video CD and DVD version of Apocalypse Now.
I should have said for my 28in tv I would not replace my VHS titles. I am very likely to replace them now that I have a 50in screen.
 

richard plumb

Distinguished Member
how many people bought a widescreen TV to take advantage of watching stuff in a more natural ratio, and how many because that was the only format the shops sold TVs in after a few years?

How many people will buy a HDTV next year not because they want one, but because thats all Comet sells?



Anyway, I digress. I think DVD was the stopgap. I agree with Rasczak that perhaps the lack of rewinding and lack of wear and tear and tracking lines were as important to DVD uptake as was image quality.

But DVD was a stopgap. Even when it was released there were already HD services in Japan. But now with HD discs, 1080p is all you'll need in the home environment even on huge screens.
 

The latest video from AVForums

Podcast: Panasonic HX800 TV + Sony HT-G700 Soundbar reviews, movie and TV show news and reviews

Trending threads

Top Bottom