Next build, have I missed anything obvious?

[Miss Chief]

Asus P5VD2-X Socket 775 Core 2 Duo VIA PT890 VT8237A DDR2 onboard Audio ATX 123837 42 in stock £29.60 £29.60 Link to asus webpage
Western Digital WD5000AAKS 500GB SATA II 7200RPM 16MB Cache - OEM 124228 633 in stock £54.46 £54.46
2x OCZ 1GB DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 Memory Unbuffered CL5 (5-5-5-12) SPecial Ops Edition with Camouflage XTC Heatspreader Lifetime Warranty 131566 71 in stock £28.93 £57.86
Sapphire X1950Pro 256MB GDDR3 DVI TVO HDCP PCI-E Graphics Card 119203 10 in stock £81.14 £81.14
Hiper 530W Black Type M PSU - ATX v2.2, Silent/Temp Control, Active PFC, SLI/Crossfire Certified 112899 11 in stock £35.95 £35.95
Intel Core 2 Duo E4500 2.20GHz Socket 775 800FSB 2MB Cache Retail Boxed Processor 130486 684 in stock £76.22 £76.22
Cart Total: £335.23

Keeping my existing case, DVD, CDRW drives, keyboard mouse and monitor. I think that's everything, anything obvious that won't work or I should think about changing? I don't want DX10 compatibility as I don't plan to play anything like that for several months and plan to stick to my 'no gfx card is worth more than £100' plan that I've always had, and I'm sure 8800's will be around that level come the end of the year. Suggestions welcome of course. Looking for a real maximum of about £400-450 ABSOLUTE MAX.

 

[badbob]

I would go for another motherboard (never rated VIA highly) Asus are a good brand, just not that chipset.
Change the PSU.

 

[Miss Chief]

Any thoughts on the PSU then? Don't really want to spend £70-80 for a PSU, despite knowing that a good one will last for years and a bad one can kill everything inside the PC!

This Mobo and this PSU? I suppose if I go to 600W I won't have a problem if I do eventually get an 8800.

 

[Tejstar]

Maybe consider a P35 board if you plan on upgrading your CPU to Penryn at some point down the line? You can pick up a Gigabyte board for around £60.

 

[Miss Chief]

i think I'll go for This board, may as well try and future-proof myself as much as possible!

Western Digital WD5000AAKS 500GB SATA II 7200RPM 16MB Cache - OEM 124228 547 in stock £54.46 £54.46
OCZ 1GB DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 Memory Unbuffered CL5 (5-5-5-12) SPecial Ops Edition with Camouflage XTC Heatspreader Lifetime Warranty 131566 46 in stock £28.93 £57.86
Intel Core 2 Duo E4500 2.20GHz Socket 775 800FSB 2MB Cache Retail Boxed Processor 130486 684 in stock £76.22 £76.22
Gigabyte GA-P35C-DS3R Socket 775 8 Channel Audio ATX Motherboard 131173 147 in stock £61.09 £61.09
OCZ StealthXStream 600W PSU - SLI Ready ATX2.2 12cm LED Fan 127861 296 in stock £46.16 £46.16
Cart Total: £295.79

I trust this will all work together?

 

[pjclark1]

I just got one of these, seems good enough for the job

Item: Extra Value Gold 400W 12cm Fan Silent PSU
Qty: 1Cost: 11.99

I have used many cheap PSUs and never had any problems (sometimes a noisy fan that can be replaced for 50p)
If someone here has actually had a cheap PSU destroy any component in their PC, I would like to know.
These stories appear to be Urban legends that only ever happen to "someone they know"

The e4400 is only 64 pounds and will run at exactly the same speed as the e4500 (I set the FSB to 266 anyway)
Why not save another tenner?

Just to point out the performance difference between the best and the worst motherboard is about 5%
You buy the motherboard on the features it offers you ....... if it offers 2 types of memory support, you can be assured that the mobo will run both types at the slower speed .... negating any "future proofing". Buy the motherboard to work with the components you have now, there is no such thing as "future proofing"

 

[badbob]

PSU's taking up rest of the components is not a urban legend. Read up on Qtec and Hiper PSU's.

Spending hundreds on a internal parts then skimping on a PSU is daft, when/if your PSU blows it'll damage the other parts. You might as well buy a quality PSU in the first place. I doubt your PSU provides clean high current stable rails when gaming.

 

[Miss Chief]

heh, just realised that I removed the graphics card from the last list. Wondered why it was working out so cheap!

Western Digital WD5000AAKS 500GB SATA II 7200RPM 16MB Cache - OEM 124228 827 in stock £54.89 £54.89
OCZ 1GB DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 Memory Unbuffered CL5 (5-5-5-12) SPecial Ops Edition with Camouflage XTC Heatspreader Lifetime Warranty 131566 40 in stock £28.93 £57.86
Intel Core 2 Duo E4500 2.20GHz Socket 775 800FSB 2MB Cache Retail Boxed Processor 130486 684 in stock £76.22 £76.22
Gigabyte GA-P35C-DS3R Socket 775 8 Channel Audio ATX Motherboard 131173 344 in stock £61.09 £61.09
OCZ StealthXStream 600W PSU - SLI Ready ATX2.2 12cm LED Fan 127861 295 in stock £46.16 £46.16
Memory/1gb Microsd With Microsd Reader - Black 130042 58 in stock £10.40 £10.40
Innovision 3D 8800GTS 320MB GDDR3 DVI PCI-E Graphics Card 125114 95 in stock £143.78 £143.78
(click if you have changed any details) Cart Total: £450.40

Decided just to get the 8800 anyway, the 1Gb MicroSD card is for my phone, ignore it.

 

[badbob]

I would seriously consider 2GB, it's only a few more quid, and if you're gaming you'll need it.

I doubt anyone on a gaming forum would disagree with me, if you're playing existing games, and in the future. You have a fast computer, but if the game system runs out of memory that'll mean slow down in games.

My gaming rig has 2GB.

 

[enablerbro1]

Poorer quality PSU aren't just at risk of blowing up, they usually don't deliver in terms of power and can be extremely inefficient which costs you more long term. You can get a 520W Corsair for around £60.

Better to wait and save some more towards getting better kit than compromise on major components just so you can buy now.

Is the E4500 really better than the E21x0? I think I'd save some money there to spend elsewhere.

A HGST or Samsung rather than WD HDD.

 

[badbob]

A HGST or Samsung rather than WD HDD.

HGST
Samsungs are quiet, however not too sure about reliability, don't think they're the best.
Nothing wrong with WD.

Just avoid Maxtors.

 

[pjclark1]

PSU's taking up rest of the components is not a urban legend. Read up on Qtec and Hiper PSU's.

Spending hundreds on a internal parts then skimping on a PSU is daft, when/if your PSU blows it'll damage the other parts.

You have removed my use of the word "cheap", an important omission as you have now changed the context of my statement entirely. PSUs damaging a PC may happen on extremely rare occasions (I have never seen it happen and I have dealt with 100s of PCs), the initial cost of the PSU causing the damage is most likely irrelevant.

 

[enablerbro1]

HGST
Samsungs are quiet, however not too sure about reliability, don't think they're the best.
Nothing wrong with WD.

Just avoid Maxtors.

HGST are Hitachi and IBM, they're producing some pretty good performing HDDs these days, Samsung's Spinpoints are quiet and perform well and no issues with reliability AFAIK. HGTSs and Samsungs seem to be around the same price range. I usually buy Samsung but thought I'd give HGST a whirl on a recent build and so far so good.

 

[Miss Chief]

I would seriously consider 2GB, it's only a few more quid, and if you're gaming you'll need it.

I doubt anyone on a gaming forum would disagree with me, if you're playing existing games, and in the future. You have a fast computer, but if the game system runs out of memory that'll mean slow down in games.

My gaming rig has 2GB.

Hmm, not sure where the 2x went to from the previous post. it will indeed have 2GB.

 

[meizumintyboi]

You have removed my use of the word "cheap", an important omission as you have now changed the context of my statement entirely. PSUs damaging a PC may happen on extremely rare occasions (I have never seen it happen and I have dealt with 100s of PCs), the initial cost of the PSU causing the damage is most likely irrelevant.

but you may have dealt with 100's of PC's, but how many have you kept up till now that are still running with the same spec & same PSU for 2yrs+ with cheap PSU's?

just out of curiosity, & of course i am talking about a decent spec pc for demanding appz e.g. latest games video etc..

 

[sibeer]

To be fair to cheap PSU's I have known and Antec and a Seasonic kill full systems (this is not a common problem they are just the main premium brands I use) and I have known plenty of budget systems have no issue with a cheap supply. I have however seen many more weak supplies go pop though under pressure. It is not an urban myth and they can take anything out from the motherboard to the majority of the system with them.

The question you should ask yourself is whether you will be pushing your system or not. If it is going to get constant use or regular high stress usage such as Gaming, rendering, video editing, etc, then buy a decent PSU. The more components and the higher the spec of them, the higher the wattage you need.

For an average midrange spec home PC, mainly used for the internet and the occasional game, something like that Hiper supply is more than sufficient. For a low spec system in a simlar situation the ones that come with £20-£30 cases will be fine. If I was putting in a 8800GTS in a gaming machine I would want a good recognised PSU supplier to provide the power such as Antec, OCZ, Seasonic, Tagan, Enermax, etc.

 

[pjclark1]

but you may have dealt with 100's of PC's, but how many have you kept up till now that are still running with the same spec & same PSU for 2yrs+ with cheap PSU's?

Why would anyone want to use a PC over 2 years old?
No use for games
No use for the current OS

Good luck playing Bioshock on an Athlon 2400 with a ATI 9550 graphics card, or watching Starship Troopers on Blu-Ray.

 

[sibeer]

Why would anyone want to use a PC over 2 years old?
No use for games
No use for the current OS

Good luck playing Bioshock on an Athlon 2400 with a ATI 9550 graphics card, or watching Starship Troopers on Blu-Ray.

Many people keep their systems for that long or more. If you are talking gaming then a two year old gaming system would be more like an Athlon64 3500 (or an overclocked lower model) with an Nvidia 6800GT. This will happily run Bioshock and any other game currently available (though not at max settings).

A three year old one would probably be a Pentium Northwood 3.0Ghz with a Radeon 9800 and those along with the AthlonX2 4200 Systems with a 7900GT from last year will have been using the same OS, Windows XP. All of them will also run Vista though the 3 year old system will struggle a bit.

Infact even the low spec sytem you are suggesting will both run most games and run Vista

Lots of us like to keep their systems moving with the times but that doesn't stop some systems from sitting as is from build to breakdown.

 

[badbob]

Why would anyone want to use a PC over 2 years old?
No use for games
No use for the current OS

Good luck playing Bioshock on an Athlon 2400 with a ATI 9550 graphics card, or watching Starship Troopers on Blu-Ray.

Claptrap. PC's that are 1+ years old are perfectly for for Windows and most games.

Perhaps if you've got unlimited funds for computers your should post your visa number here and allow others to use it for computer upgrades?

 

[meizumintyboi]

yes please, what's your overdraft limit?? we don't want you to go overdraft..

pjclark1 seems to take things quite literally when i say things smart a55, what i meant was have you kept a cheap PSU in a case & kept it running for 2yrs+ when i say same specs, this didn't mean that you couldn't upgrade things such as; GPU, RAM, CPU etc..

not everyone can afford to upgrade every few years, the idea is to build a solid machine that won't throw you over. not one you throw in the bin every 5 or 6 months or so (no not literally im exaggerating)

not everyone can afford to buy the best pc, so will be upgrading parts in the future e.g. me i'm only getting a 2ghz e2180 cpu for now which will do wonders overclocked & for it's very low price mark

 

[pjclark1]

My oldest parts are a £5 PSU (I was lucky this fitted the new mobo), DDR memory and an ati 9550 all a little over 2 years old with a new Asrock mobo and a e2160 running at 2.4Ghz, it can play C&C3 but the 2400 Athlon and MSI mobo that were in it last week couldn't. The HD might be 3 years old as well.

The upgrade cost £124 including the new £15 PSU I thought I might need.
You don't need to spend a fortune to keep the upgrades going, PC parts are cheap.
I agree with the OP, no gfx card is worth more than £100

what i meant was have you kept a cheap PSU in a case & kept it running for 2yrs+ when i say same specs, this didn't mean that you couldn't upgrade things such as; GPU, RAM, CPU etc..

Actually it did!
Just over 2 years ago PSU/mobo requirements were redesigned (for the second time in 5 years), I was lucky my old PSU (just over 2 years old) fitted my new mobo, you can't count on being able to reuse them on a new mobo. If you buy a new CPU (in 2 years), you are likely to have to buy a new mobo, new RAM, new graphics card and new PSU (cos they won't fit the old parts). Spending £60 on a PSU for the system meizmintyboy proposes (30%+ of his build) is just madness, in 2 years it will be unlikely to fit a new mobo.

Let me remind you of past changes
5 years ago PSU changed, 2 years ago PSU changed (20+ molex/20+4+molex/24+4+molex+sata)
4 years ago RAM changed, 2 years ago RAM changed (SDRAM/DDR/DDR2)
6 years ago graphics bus changed, 2 years ago graphics bus changed (VESA/AGP/PCI-e)
1 year ago storage changed (PATA/SATA)
every year CPU socket changes

the idea is to build a solid machine that won't throw you over. not one you throw in the bin every 5 or 6 months or so (no not literally im exaggerating)

Literally that is exaggerating (I say 2 years not 6 months)
How many parts exactly do you think you will be able to re-use in 2 years time?
(PS don't hold me to the exact year of each change, but it looks like chuck and replace every 2 years to me)

 

[meizumintyboi]

yes but with a £5/£15 psu the not so urban legend/myth could blow under loads & take other parts with them, you have obviously had a good experience with cheaper PSU's and that's good for you

what about your more expensive rigs have you used £15 psu's that actually give a true power rating & perform well under load with no problems whatsoever, such as; instability- restarts & large fluctuation of FPS in game

when you know you'll have a decent spec pc under load frequently it's not worth gambling your system components becuase you think that the cheap PSUs popping is a myth

as i said in another thread i stupidly purchased a £12 ebuyer extra value tri colour LED fan 600W PSU, believing i got myslef a bargain, back then i didn't know much about PSU true ratings a year & a half ago; couldn't handle my rig, causing instability issues, and yet the Hiper Type R 580W at a lower wattage but a true 580W supply, still working now & stable, & my previous spec is certainly no where near the power hungry level, but i may have been unlucky...

 

[meizumintyboi]

basically most people who are concerned about their PC & aware of cheaper PSU's instability will want to buy a PSU witha good name,

now i know badbob keeps refering to big name PSUs as unrealiable, but he wasn't putting his idea accross clearly, he only suggested a few of the big name PSU's that have died, i'm sure a lot less than the cheaper PSUs, and you can't really put a name and a model on a cheap PSU, then someone recognising it & saying don't get this PSU becuase it's cheap it's harder to give it a bad name being 3rd party

 

[sibeer]

5 years ago PSU changed, 2 years ago PSU changed (20+ molex/20+4+molex/24+4+molex+sata)
4 years ago RAM changed, 2 years ago RAM changed (SDRAM/DDR/DDR2)
6 years ago graphics bus changed, 2 years ago graphics bus changed (VESA/AGP/PCI-e)
1 year ago storage changed (PATA/SATA)
every year CPU socket changes


Literally that is exaggerating (I say 2 years not 6 months)
How many parts exactly do you think you will be able to re-use in 2 years time?
(PS don't hold me to the exact year of each change, but it looks like chuck and replace every 2 years to me)

I know you say not to hold you to our years but I think you are painting a disproportionate picture. I know time passes faster as we go, but not as fast as you are implying. There have also always been halfway houses to help people with fairly recent components.

PSU's changed to ATX much more than 5 years ago (They started to become ommon with the Pentium 2 10 years ago). About 6 years later they added the 4 pin attachment for Pentium 4s. You can still use those supplies on any motherboard with a cheap adapter from ebay.
DDR RAM actually became comon with the Athlon XP (2001) and it is only since the move to AM2 socket AMDs that you have not been able to use it (approx 1 year ago)
AGP again came with the Pentium 2 and you can still buy new motherboards that will accept AGP or both AGP and PCI-E
Storage changed for the first time since 1986 last year as motherboards with SATA only started to become commonplace. You can still easily use old drives though with cheap contoller cards.

What definately is the case though is that the chipsets and processor sockets change far too fast. You are very unlikely to be replacing a CPU without changing the motherboard unless you upgrade within a year or so. My two homesystems have manged it but only just. The two year old Skt 939 one is now maxed out without a complete overhaul replacing mobo, processor and RAM. The year old Intel 965 based Core2Duo system is unlikely to make it to the next gen of Intel chips.

 

[meizumintyboi]

that's ridiculous throwing a pc every 2 years it's just too costly! i just don't see myself wasting £400 or so every 2 years on a PC, you have gotta be thinkin about the average user, who doesn't need the very best & up to date. As said time is not moving anywhere near as fast as you say, yes the technology has moved on relatively quickly, you can use certain parts on new builds, if for example your'e on a tight budget there are still 939 or 775 mobos with AGP & half decent AGP gpu's to go with them, that will play some new games at a playable FPS obviously on med/low settings. BTW i do plan on replacing CPU to quad core in a year when they are cheaper and appz use quad close to its full power & will increase my ram to 4gb DDR2, and then you'll say ddr2 is dead, ddr3 is now the only interface... but then that's silly amounts of money to then spend in a years time on a decent ddr3 mobo because ddr2 will still be in use by the average user