NEWS: Sony launches native 4K VPL-VW290ES and VW890ES projectors

 

Superhans

Active Member
It’s nice to see any new projector tech but I made the mistake of going on AVS and the usual suspects are already at work dampening my excitement.

Im not sure how the 890 justifies such a premium over the 790 though?
 

bandyka

Well-known Member
The ARC lens is a stunner but how does it fare against the JVC N range that remains to be seen, especially on the contrast front and DTM which are very important. I've been burnt by Sony in the past a number of times so will watch carefully.
 

Slinkywizard

Well-known Member
The ARC-F lens offers microscopic differences compared to the standard lens array in the range. Maybe it's just me, but when I demoed a 760 versus an 870 a couple of years ago, I truly could not see a difference. And when differences come down to pixel-peeping, you're truly in Emperor's New Clothes territory.

Still, no doubt the audiencefor the 890 are those not concerned with budget or value. So, if that's you, fill yer boots! lol.
 

IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
So whats the upgrade over the 870 ? is the ARC lens new or improved ? the panel upgraded or the same ?
 

DB9S

Active Member
The upgrade is supposed to be:
X1 chip and, umm, oooo, HDR Enhancer (another name for Contrast Enhancer) and ummm, that is it.
The 290 I think gets the same 'additions' but also DFO which the 270 did not have. Still no iris for the increase in cost though. :(
Funny thing is, the 270 and 870 also have the X1 inside them (also 'optimised for projectors' simply by virtue of their presence.... erm, in projectors).
It was just never mentioned in marketing. ;)
 

davidf

Previously davidf
Isn’t it about time the price of (genuine) 4K tech was brought down? It’s always hovered around the £5k Mark with projectors - should be half that by now.
 

wl1

Well-known Member
Isn’t it about time the price of (genuine) 4K tech was brought down? It’s always hovered around the £5k Mark with projectors - should be half that by now.
I agree, just too much money. i still have Sony 55, and as much as I love using it daily, just can’t justify the upgrade. Decided to buy a new Triumph Trident for £1500 less than an N7, much better value.
 

davidf

Previously davidf
I just think that projectors would be far more popular if genuine 4K was available at a reasonable price. I don’t know what the current sales figures are for projectors, but I bet they’re nowhere near what they were 10 or 20 years ago, as larger TV screens are far more convenient for many people, and cheaper than an equivalent projector - and in many cases probably looks better too, and doesn’t make any noise.

I just don’t see why we have to settle for some faux 4K at the sort of price that most people would spend on a good PJ - around the £2-3k mark. I do miss my projector, but with the quality of picture I’m getting from my Sony XH9505 TV, I’m not prepared to spend whatever amount of money it would take to match it with a PJ - and I’m guessing Sony’s “entry level” isn’t going to cut it...
 

DB9S

Active Member
Sony's entry level, the newly announced 290ES is 5.5k (!) and will not give the same image quality as the XH9505, although it might come closer than you would think.
You need to spend over 10k on a Sony before you get to anything like comparable.
You do get a trump card with projectors however and that is, sheer grand and immersive scale.
Way more than any remotely affordable TV.
 

davidf

Previously davidf
I agree - a TV can’t match a PJ for a cinematic viewing experience. But I’m not paying £10k+ to replicate what I’m used to.
 

big boss

Well-known Member
I just think that projectors would be far more popular if genuine 4K was available at a reasonable price. I don’t know what the current sales figures are for projectors, but I bet they’re nowhere near what they were 10 or 20 years ago, as larger TV screens are far more convenient for many people, and cheaper than an equivalent projector - and in many cases probably looks better too, and doesn’t make any noise.

I just don’t see why we have to settle for some faux 4K at the sort of price that most people would spend on a good PJ - around the £2-3k mark. I do miss my projector, but with the quality of picture I’m getting from my Sony XH9505 TV, I’m not prepared to spend whatever amount of money it would take to match it with a PJ - and I’m guessing Sony’s “entry level” isn’t going to cut it...
I completely agree. I've been waiting for a native 4K projector for a few years to upgrade my HW40. But I won't bother now. Thinking of removing the projector and use the KD75XH9005 solely.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I just think that projectors would be far more popular if genuine 4K was available at a reasonable price. I don’t know what the current sales figures are for projectors, but I bet they’re nowhere near what they were 10 or 20 years ago, as larger TV screens are far more convenient for many people, and cheaper than an equivalent projector - and in many cases probably looks better too, and doesn’t make any noise.

I just don’t see why we have to settle for some faux 4K at the sort of price that most people would spend on a good PJ - around the £2-3k mark. I do miss my projector, but with the quality of picture I’m getting from my Sony XH9505 TV, I’m not prepared to spend whatever amount of money it would take to match it with a PJ - and I’m guessing Sony’s “entry level” isn’t going to cut it...


I thought the LG and Samsung projectors were true native 4K. Mainstream users can go native 4K now via LG, Samsung, Optoma, BenQ for a decent price. Its available, just not by JVC, Sony or Epson at a decent price.


Projections issue and why its not mainstream is not the pricing of JVC or Sony. Its time, money, space, usability, versatility, lack of space, lack of light control and probably most importantly - its the lack of exposure to projection. Every single person who has viewing my home cinema setup has left jaw dropped. These are people new to HT who haven't seen a 140''+ image in a home before and haven't heard speakers better than a soundbar and are now listening to a vented subwoofer with Arendal speakers.

Exposure is absolutely key and the HT market lacks that. I have plenty of friends who, if they'd been exposed to a high fidelity of HT, would have easily of bought into it and put in £10-20k.

The issue is also the learning curve around projectors (aka room treatment, throw distances, the tech required such an AVR).

Projectors are the least plug and play device in the world. I think if a manufacturer was to retail a 'projector package'... that is a projector, an AVR-type device, a link to a soundbar or speakers, it'd go crazy.

Samsung could do it. They have their HDMI boxes they ship with some of their TVs which has an audio port out to the soundbar. It'd improve the usability and accessibility of projectors ten-fold.

JVC, Sony and Epson aren't in the game.
 

big boss

Well-known Member
I thought the LG and Samsung projectors were true native 4K. Mainstream users can go native 4K now via LG, Samsung, Optoma, BenQ for a decent price. Its available, just not by JVC, Sony or Epson at a decent price.
No, Samsung and LG aren't native 4K, nor are Optoma and BenQ.


"This is a DLP projector that uses the Texas Instruments UHD DMD, which relies on pixel-shift tech to render 4K pixels on screen. The native resolution of this DMD is 2716 x 1528 pixels, which is half the pixel count of native 4K, but also double the pixel count of the 0.47” UHD DMD used in lower tier UST DLP laser projectors, that are actually only 1080p native."
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
No, Samsung and LG aren't native 4K, nor are Optoma and BenQ.



"This is a DLP projector that uses the Texas Instruments UHD DMD, which relies on pixel-shift tech to render 4K pixels on screen. The native resolution of this DMD is 2716 x 1528 pixels, which is half the pixel count of native 4K, but also double the pixel count of the 0.47” UHD DMD used in lower tier UST DLP laser projectors, that are actually only 1080p native."

Damn that sucks. Not sure if the average joe will realise this though, not will it really affect image quality until you exceed 120+ inches that its really impacting on much.
 

davidf

Previously davidf
I’d say it’ll affect ANY projector setup, regardless of screen size. Most PJ users are going to have a minimum of a 6ft it 7ft screen, which will be big enough to showcase full fat 4K.
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
I just don’t see why we have to settle for some faux 4K at the sort of price that most people would spend on a good PJ - around the £2-3k mark. I do miss my projector, but with the quality of picture I’m getting from my Sony XH9505 TV, I’m not prepared to spend whatever amount of money it would take to match it with a PJ - and I’m guessing Sony’s “entry level” isn’t going to cut it...
the XH9505 is an LCD TV ? picture for size and quality can achieve with epson 9400 (also LCD) even though faux 4K as you call it, i would pretty guarantee has capability to blow away literally experience with LCD tv in question...

projectors do take some effort... took me years of wondering how to get happening in my own non dedicated room, much help and suggestions from friends.. and then a brain wave from one friend... that worked out perfectly how to close off the room with installation of a door way where an opening way...fortuntely brother in law is a builder..even had a large door left over from a job.. before know it had perfect light control making projector use possible night or day...

Point am getting at is does take some effort... but have come to point... even in my non dedicated setup... i couldn't care less of the TV... its an old pioneer plasma... at distance we view at dont think we even resolve 1080p from it... and id be pretty sure what distance viewing your TV from unless using it as a PC monitor or its a gargantuan thing(for a TV) theres no ways you are fully resolving 4k either... quality TVs are silly money at kind of size easily possible with projection setups that achieve a pretty decent result

a projector just makes so much easier or larger screen experience ...head across to the movie screen shot candy thread... i have posted images there from my faux 4k jvc and also n7 native 4k jvc...will also see @Luminated67 screen shots from epson 9400 he has posted... am pretty sure he has a TV as well somewhere in the house... ask him which he'd rather enjoy a large screen experience on...

ive been enjoying best of both worlds... TV for every day TV and projector for larger screen experience for years now... have seen 2 epsons, one jvc 1080p and then one jvc faux 4k come and go over the years now have the native 4k jvc.... have enjoyed the larger screen experience of all along those years even the very first 1080p projector i had... so no regrets and if i can.... id heartedly encourage to explore... it might not be possible in your setup.... it might take some work...but gee it is so worth it !

dont be put off by sony base model.. yes its a bit lacking ... though dont read that as inadequate... it woudl be quite a step forward in itself and have seen it in dedicated and non dedicated settings doing its thing. yes there are better options at same price or even less ...thats its only problem...certainly consider the options at same price or lower (at price point that is appropriate). but definitely do consider... i wouldn't disregard the whole projector thing just on this one aberration ...
 

davidf

Previously davidf
Genuine 4K projectors running at optimum are very noisy. And that Epson isn’t genuine 4K - if I was to move back to a projector, I’d want genuine 4K.
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
Genuine 4K projectors running at optimum are very noisy.
absolutely not david...my jvc n7 is native 4k and it runs on low lamp.. you wouldn't even know its there :)

And that Epson isn’t genuine 4K.
perhaps missed the whole point of my post above (or looked at it as too long didnt bother reading which his sad...)

... what is the size of your LCD screen and what distance are you viewing it at... are you even fully resolving 4k ?
 

davidf

Previously davidf
My old PJ was -19dB (-17dB in eco mode), and although I’ve lost touch with most recent projectors, nothing came close last time I looked. Again, I couldn’t go for a projector any louder than that as it wouldn’t sit very far away from me.

I’m fully resolving 4K, no need to worry about that. I’m about 6ft from a 55” screen. It would’ve been a 65” but there’s too much stuff in the room.
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
My old PJ was -19dB (-17dB in eco mode), and although I’ve lost touch with most recent projectors, nothing came close last time I looked. Again, I couldn’t go for a projector any louder than that as it wouldn’t sit very far away from me.

I wonder if ever measured the noise floor of your room ... might be shocked :D

None modern projectors noise wise are consequence ... what to look for is large casings abs large fans :) also don’t go silly screen size and then don’t have to crank to high lamp or high power on lasers which agree can be loud :)

I’m fully resolving 4K, no need to worry about that. I’m about 6ft from a 55” screen. It would’ve been a 65” but there’s too much stuff in the room.

Hate to break it to you ... but at 1.875m or 6ft you are just beyond resolving 2k. Which you fully resolve at upto and 2.175m

So you are starting to resolve beyond 2k, but to fully resolve 4K from your screen you would need to sit 1-1.5 x screen heights :)

Your screen height is 685mm.. so would need to sit 685mm to 1027mm from screen to fully resolve 4K

The 55” is what folk use as I talked about as a pc monitor to fully resolve 4K. :)

That said If 1.875m is best can do as viewing distance ... I suspect most folk would stick with a tv :) but if fully resolving 4K is your goal you’d need a 100” tv ... which I suspect is also would be totally overwhelming for most folks screen size for viewing distance :)
 
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