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NEWS: Sonos clarifies product update and recycling position

daddadoofus

Novice Member
The Sonos clarification is mere words. It only clarifies the situation for those people who didn't understand the original email. Nothing has changed. Legacy products will no longer receive updates which enable them to utilise streaming services and apps on phones, tablets etc. Whilst this may not immediately affect systems, over time legacy Sonos will become unusable, and may even become uncontrollable as people upgrade their phones tablets etc.

Am I placated by the clarification. NO. Absolutely not.
 

russelkhan

Active Member
Did they promise to isolate legacy equipment into a separate network in the first statement too?

Sonos probably thought that they could be like Apple and do whatever the hell they wanted, and their legions of fanboys would just gratefully lap it up. The reality of course is very different. I'm sure many prospective buyers have now turned away from them, and existing users (like myself) will be looking into alternatives for the future.
 

big boss

Well-known Member
Just quoting an article from Wired:

"A quick show of hands: is anyone out there still using an iPhone 3GS? A Palm Pre, perhaps? Maybe you’re still browsing the web on your Asus Eee PC netbook, or listening to your music on a Microsoft Zune HD player?

Of course you’re not. All of these gadgets, while once at the cutting edge of technology, were released in 2009. Technological advancements have meant their hardware just can’t keep up with the software requirements of today, and as such, all of these devices were discontinued and cut from their various support programmes between 2011 and 2013."

I suspect Sonos wants to support hi res music to stay up with the competition (I'm sure we'll hear something in this regard in summer), but the older products cannot support it.

The main change from previous announcement is that Sonos will continue to provide security updates and bug fixes for legacy products for as long as possible and they will work on a way to be able to keep both legacy systems and new systems together (which is a challenge for current Sonos model where all speakers get updated together).
 

OneSon

Active Member
Just quoting an article from Wired:

"A quick show of hands: is anyone out there still using an iPhone 3GS? A Palm Pre, perhaps? Maybe you’re still browsing the web on your Asus Eee PC netbook, or listening to your music on a Microsoft Zune HD player?
My Dad bought a Naim system 15 years ago and still happily listens to his collection of CDs on it today.
 

big boss

Well-known Member
My Dad bought a Naim system 15 years ago and still happily listens to his collection of CDs on it today.
The functionalities are totally different.
 

russelkhan

Active Member
My Dad bought a Naim system 15 years ago and still happily listens to his collection of CDs on it today.
In Sonos' defence, you can't compare something like that to smart products that rely on regular software updates. My hi-fi equipment is older still, some of dating back to the 90s.

However, it also has to be said that a 256k streaming music track from today is no different than it was when the Play 5 was released, so why is the Play 5 now relegated to "legacy" status? This is an issue with Sonos' software, not the hardware. They are in effect forcing the speaker to become obsolete. All they have to do to keep the consumer happy is to allow them to keep the functionality that they paid for. To blame this on having to keep the same software for ALL the speakers is not acceptable. I suspect it's a combination of 2 things - they don't want to devote the resources required to separate their software platform for speakers of different generations, AND they want people to buy newer speakers by forcing the consumer to upgrade.
 

big boss

Well-known Member
Sonos' weakness in front of competition like Bluesound is that it is unable to support high resolution music. Sonos tops out at CD-quality music. It cannot play downloaded 24bit/192kHz files and does not support DTS or Dolby Atmos. I suspect Sonos wants to address this which it cannot before doing what it's doing.

Sonos always wanted users to be able to use its speakers in a multiroom setup without having a situation wherein some of the speakers in the multiroom do not play certain music and others do. I think that's why they've chosen the path. We need to wait for further announcements to see what their plans are.
 

OneSon

Active Member
The functionalities are totally different.
Oh I know but my point is that by shifting our music listening to streaming we're opening ourselves up to all of this bs. Meanwhile my Dad is sat happily listening to his CDs drinking a beer.
 

big boss

Well-known Member
Oh I know but my point is that by shifting our music listening to streaming we're opening ourselves up to all of this bs. Meanwhile my Dad is sat happily listening to his CDs drinking a beer.
That's where the future is heading towards unfortunately. We won't "own" anything and will have to pay for music we listen to and movies we watch in exchange for convenience.
 

OneSon

Active Member
That's where the future is heading towards unfortunately. We won't "own" anything and will have to pay for music we listen to and movies we watch in exchange for convenience.
Clearly. And when they up the subscription costs it's going to get increasingly expensive. That's why I'm holding on to all my physical media and investing in technology with replaceable parts that is not "smart" or in any way part of the internet of things. May be it's a tin-foil-hat approach but hey.
 

Fulltopuk

Active Member
Is this not similar to the Airplay II situation when only certain models can work with it? I think as long as they don't take functionality away then users cannot expect new features in the future. But it looks like Sonos didn’t explain themselves correctly or have backtracked slightly?
 

BOFH_UK

Active Member
Well up until this week I was all ready to pull the trigger on a Gen 2 Sonos 1. Note the 'was' in that sentence...

Don't get me wrong, I fully accept any and all 'Smart' devices will have a shelf life. I've been working in IT for 20+years so that small detail has gradually seeped its way into my worldview, oddly enough. But the way Sonos have gone about their business in the last couple of months is, IMO, shady as hell. Bricking devices that have been 'traded in' rather than offering some sort of refurb or at least recycle scheme was bad enough. Saying 'if you've got an old device on your network NONE of your products get upgrades' was pure anti-customer BS. Doubly so now they're at least partially back peddling on that showing this was a corporate decision not a technical one. It's that bit, truth to tell, that's made me want to avoid them like the plague.

By all means end-of-life your products when it makes sense to do so. But for equipment that has a purpose beyond the outdated aspects (like, oh, speakers for example) allow them to keep working as such. Under no circumstances should you be threatening other devices a customer may own unless there's a fundamental issue that can't be avoided. The approach that's been outlined in a very public way from Sonos runs counter to that and makes you wonder what else they'd do to try if it's profit vs customer. Certainly it makes me very reluctant to buy in to their ecosystem when there are other options out there that are at least a little more customer-friendly in their approach.
 

Paul7777x

Member
Utter bastards. That’s all.

They are trying to emulate Apples theft policy. But without the clout or the fan base.

It is a blatant smash and grab; I cannot see how anyone tries to defend this?
 

RMP888

Member
Clearly. And when they up the subscription costs it's going to get increasingly expensive. That's why I'm holding on to all my physical media and investing in technology with replaceable parts that is not "smart" or in any way part of the internet of things. May be it's a tin-foil-hat approach but hey.
I think along the same lines which might be considered old fashioned, but the younger than me generations seem quite ok with forced obsolesce. I would like to think that I could pass my passive speakers on in 20 years and they would still sound as good as they do today. My smart speakers probably will go to the recycle bin sooner than I would like, it is just the way corporations seem to treat even their own technology products. But I give credit to sonos, that they have a large installed base with equipment over 10 year old.
 

xmb

Well-known Member
Is this not similar to the Airplay II situation when only certain models can work with it?
Not really, as AirPlay will still work with AirPlay 2 devices in a system, you just don't get the enhancement of multi-room with the older products, In this case older Sonos products may well stop being able to stream from services in the future.

However, all internet connected technology will eventually become obsolete and may cease to function once support is dropped by the manufacturer. When buying such items you need to ask yourself if you are happy to buy it all again in 5-years time. If not look for cheaper products or only buy items where you can split the internet connected parts from the other parts of the system.
 

indus

Distinguished Member
I find this demand for high res audio on Sonos very curious indeed. I can't believe that you would be able to tell the difference between CD quality streaming and high res on a pair of Sonos ones or one of their sound bars.
I doubt you'd notice the difference on a pair of Play 5s either.

That leaves the Connect devices. If you were that serious about your music, believed high res made a difference AND had the kit to reveal the possible difference I doubt you'd be using a Sonos device as your streamer.

If there really is a demand from Sonos users for high res audio may I suggest that they are deluded?
 

big boss

Well-known Member
I find this demand for high res audio on Sonos very curious indeed. I can't believe that you would be able to tell the difference between CD quality streaming and high res on a pair of Sonos ones or one of their sound bars.
I doubt you'd notice the difference on a pair of Play 5s either.

That leaves the Connect devices. If you were that serious about your music, believed high res made a difference AND had the kit to reveal the possible difference I doubt you'd be using a Sonos device as your streamer.

If there really is a demand from Sonos users for high res audio may I suggest that they are deluded?
The entire AV industry works on the principal of psychovisual and psychoacoustics. Otherwise people will stop buying AV kit for many years after a purchase.
 

Paul7777x

Member
I find this demand for high res audio on Sonos very curious indeed. I can't believe that you would be able to tell the difference between CD quality streaming and high res on a pair of Sonos ones or one of their sound bars.
I doubt you'd notice the difference on a pair of Play 5s either.

That leaves the Connect devices. If you were that serious about your music, believed high res made a difference AND had the kit to reveal the possible difference I doubt you'd be using a Sonos device as your streamer.

If there really is a demand from Sonos users for high res audio may I suggest that they are deluded?
So true. Even if there is a discernible difference.

But people buy marketing speak.

Buzz words sell, much like tits used too.
 

FunkyMunkey

Well-known Member
Could a subscription to Roon be a way around this?

I was just about to buy two Sonos Connects for the living room and dining room of our new house. Now I'm thinking I might just make a couple of raspberry pi Roon endpoints, connect them to DACs and use my NAS as a Roon core.

Would probably cost about £100 for the raspberry pis, £530ish for a lifetime Roon subscription. Still £170 cheaper than two Sonos Ports!
 

Cebolla

Member
Could a subscription to Roon be a way around this?

I was just about to buy two Sonos Connects for the living room and dining room of our new house. Now I'm thinking I might just make a couple of raspberry pi Roon endpoints, connect them to DACs and use my NAS as a Roon core.

Would probably cost about £100 for the raspberry pis, £530ish for a lifetime Roon subscription. Still £170 cheaper than two Sonos Ports!
Or, even £700 cheaper if you can go for the free Logitech Media Server instead of Roon on your NAS and install free Squeezebox player software on the two Raspberry Pis (eg, native Squeezelite with a 'normal' Linux distro such as Raspbian or DietPi, or Squeezelite built into a specialised audio distro such as MoOde or piCorePlayer).
 

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