NEWS: Scenic Labs launches MediaLight Mk2 Bias Lighting range

Skyrider

Well-known Member
Just installed the Mk 2 Flex version ☀
 

moraghan

Active Member
Whats going on with that first main picture? Why is the TV miles over to the left? Nice to see those 2 Apple HomePods though ... they really are incredible sounding. I need to buy a load more for the house when on offer. Have ceiling speakers but hardly ever use them as the HomePods blow them out of the water.
 

Jason Rosenfeld

Standard Member
That's perspective. The display is centered (but it definitely shows what a difference keystoning makes with a projector, for an example of the impact of perspective :laugh:). The photo was taken in David Abrams' home.

Whats going on with that first main picture? Why is the TV miles over to the left? Nice to see those 2 Apple HomePods though ... they really are incredible sounding. I need to buy a load more for the house when on offer. Have ceiling speakers but hardly ever use them as the HomePods blow them out of the water.
 

mrmrh

Active Member
What affect would the colour wall you have behind it make on the perfect D65 light emitted? Wouldn’t a non white wall negate the benefit over a less precise alternative?
 

Khazul

Well-known Member
What affect would the colour wall you have behind it make on the perfect D65 light emitted? Wouldn’t a non white wall negate the benefit over a less precise alternative?
And which 'white' paint would that be? ;)

They always say lighting color rather than lighting + environment.

I have Phillips hue light strip that I made into a custom backlight frame that I use for this purpose and TBH I didnt like it when using the appropriate white (we have 'brilliant white' walls if that matters). The issues were:
1. Needing to dim it to suit whatever random average brightness level the movie was made to to which is a nonsense as that varies constantly and your eyes continually adjust (not erally a problem as we have the lighting controllable from the harmony remote).
2. Typically we are watching a movie late evening and will probably go to sleep after - having as pure white light does a great job of keeping you awake relative to setting the hue light to a warm white instead. So, we just use a dim warm white if the backlight is on at all (usually dark room for a movie with our OLED with it set to dark room mode).

In the end I am not convinced that the environment lighting matters. Lets face it - cinemas are dark and maybe it is differently graded relative to cinema release to suit whichever HDR format is being used. If you really care this much, then you probably have an OLED and that will most likely have a preset for a dark room which of course looks great on a OLED.
And then there is the high amount of blue light in the D65 white which may be quite disruptive to your sleeping if watching before you go to bed.
 

Jason Rosenfeld

Standard Member
I've spent (wasted?) many hours discussing this with my colleagues.:laugh:

We always start on the point that calibrators don't calibrate a TV differently when a TV is sat in a room with blue walls. It's still set to D65. And as you might imagine, a D65 source bounced off a blue wall will still measure 6500K. Bounced off a red brick wall, the ambient light is not red either but 6500K.

You can try to neutralize a red wall with blue light, but you are then filling the room with blue ambient light, which has as much (or more) impact as the color of the wall behind the display.

With a matte paint the colour of the wall does not change the white point of the light by much. With a paint with high specular reflectance, it could impact the CCT quite a bit, but you also wouldn't want lights in front of a metallic or mirrored surface anyway. (A metallic gold wall with high specular reflectance will have a massive impact on the CCT - it would make it very warm).

Would I colour grade a movie in a room with blue walls? No (but I've seen people color grade with brown wood paneling, which isn't ideal). A colourist is typically close to the wall and they see little else in the room besides the monitor and the wall.

Could I watch a movie in a room with blue walls and simulated D65 bias lights? Yes. The ambient light in the room matches the white point of the display. The objects in the room besides the blue walls will not look blue. Chromatic adaptation occurs to the ambient light, not the wall color.

Is spectrally flat paint better? Definitely, but good bias lighting is nothing more than ambient light from the ideal location (behind the display), of the ideal color temperature and Duv (chromaticity coordinates) and at the ideal luminance.

Light blue walls or yellow walls, for example, wouldn't negate accurate light but it wouldn't be as ideal as gray walls. Accurate lights with high color rendering would still be less bad with a non-spectrally flat paint.

Watching in the dark doesn't eliminate D65 ambient light in the room either, it just makes it fluctuate in luminance more.

What affect would the colour wall you have behind it make on the perfect D65 light emitted? Wouldn’t a non white wall negate the benefit over a less precise alternative?
 

gingerninja72

Active Member
@Jason Rosenfeld I've just started a new thread today, would you mind offering your thoughts as you clearly know your stuff!
 

tripleggg

Novice Member
Will the media light mk2 light strip on the back of my 65” oled have the desired bias lighting effect shining on a dark wood panel wall?
 

Jason Rosenfeld

Standard Member
The main consideration is whether the paneling is glossy or matte. If it’s a matte finish, it’s probably ok. If it’s glossy, you’d get specular reflections, and that’s problematic

First, glossy paints reflect color more than matte paints. D65 light bouncing off a red brick wall still measures remarkably close to D65 from a few feet away. That’s the inverse square law at work.

The same D65 light reflecting off a red sports car is going to measure more red from the same distance because it’s reflecting more red light to begin with.

The glossy coat of the car is also going to cause specular reflections. That’s the kind of surface that you want to avoid most of all (metallic surfaces and mirrors being the absolute worst and only suitable for covering or painting over).

We want specular highlights on our HDR displays, but we don’t want them on our walls behind the TV.

So, this is where most people usually say “my wood paneling is more of a semi-gloss or satin finish.” :laugh:

This is usually ok, but it is advisable that:
  1. the color of the semi-gloss finish not be too saturated
  2. The lights not cast any direct reflections “specular dots” that you’d see from where you are sat. Usually, if the lights are further from the edge of the display, they are not in a place where you’d see their direct reflections. This isn’t always possible, such as in the case of a flush wall mount. Why? Because if you are too far from the edge of the display you don’t always get the best diffusion. It might work, but the halo might be less than ideal.

Is a matte gray wall better? Sure. However, the ambient light in the room and the objects in the room both serve as a white point reference against which our visual system balances on-screen colors. You don’t calibrate a TV differently for red paint, but you do calibrate it for the color of light and, as anybody who ever painted a room can attest, sometimes the color of the paint looks different under different types of light. It never looks the same as in the paint store. The color of our surroundings influences us as well, but ambient light has a much more intense effect.

That’s one of the other advantages of high CRI light sources, btw. They illuminate surfaces for uniformly across the entire spectrum. If you have a light that is lacking in red spectrum — for example, a very popular brand of LED strip has absolutely no red — it’s going to accentuate the blue and green in everything. That’s why gray paint looks blue under dodgy lights.
 

tripleggg

Novice Member
Wow! Great info Thanks!

It’s matte and the tv is not flush it’s about 2.5 feet away fro the wood so the light diffuses against the wood and floor.

So sounds like it will have a good effect?
 

Jason Rosenfeld

Standard Member
That's why you can turn bias lighting off. Being plunged into darkness falls into the preference category of the "preference versus reference" fight. It's subjective.

I'd say that if there's a movie that you want to watch in total darkness, just do it, but don't forget to try the lights at an extremely dim level. The SMPTE guidelines of 5 nits for professionals is VERY low.

The extreme blacks of OLED and the extreme highlights of HDR, though, generally mean more eye strain, not less, when viewing in a totally dark room. You are only in the dark when the screen goes to black. There's a fair amount of fetishisation of this dark plunge, since it's still relatively new and humans are easily amused, just as every rock album in the 60's hard-panned stereo left and right to take advantage of new audio tech. It was only later on that more tasteful panning techniques were employed.

I'll add that it's not uncommon for younger people to have fewer concerns about eyestrain. I fell into that camp before I hit my 40s (or, I should say, before the 40s hit me). I didn't wear earplugs at concerts either. Now I pay the price. :laugh: Scleral buckle surgery for my retinas and severe tinnitus aren't any fun (not saying that not using bias lights caused my retinas to detach. lol. that would be great sales copy, but it's just unfortunate genetics). I'm pretty sure that attending too many Rush concerts caused my tinnitus, though!

Oh, also when is okay for a total blackout viewing? Since it’s an oled tv I sometimes want pitch black to revel in the blacks ...
 

tripleggg

Novice Member
Thanks for all the great info!

I’m jealous of your tinnitus ... One of my greatest regrets is never going to see rush live. Of all the reasons to get tinnitus that would be the finest one.
 

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