NEWS: Samsung to launch Micro LED TVs using Chinese LEDs

Discussion in 'Samsung TVs Forum' started by Mark Hodgkinson, Feb 12, 2018.


    1. Mark Hodgkinson

      Mark Hodgkinson
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    2. SteveeJ

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      Looking to commodotise new technology from so early? Bold move. If they can successfully manufacture I’d assume Samsung have deal in place to keep LG locked out.
       
    3. Loopthrough

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      In 10-15 years Samsung TVs will be in the position Panasonic are now, and the Chinese will be the premium brands, just like happened with British to Japanese to Korean brands.

      Samsung is already using BOE (Beijing Opto Electronics) LCD panels in their most mainstream TVs in 2016-18, presumably because their own panel business can't compete.
       
    4. stevebk

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      Well done to Samsung, great to hear Micro LED coming to the market.
      It will be very interesting to see how it compares to Oled.
       
    5. Furnace Inferno

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      Theoretically it should be better in every way, now whether the first model is or not we shall see.

      I wonder if they are going straight for big production numbers to keep the cost lower than the first OLEDs and have them more in line with current high end prices, that would kill OLED in it's tracks and consign them to mid-range TV's with LCD's staying as the budget and smaller sizes.

      The real question is what on earth will they call it now they've already used various forms of "LED" to market LCD's with LED backlights. They can hardly come out and admit that actually it was all just marketing lies and now please buy the real deal.
       
    6. Blu-rayx

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      QLED PLUS :rotfl:
       
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    7. MikeTVMikeTV

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      Will be avoiding these then, if it's anything like the cheap Chinese capacitors they used in their TVs from 2010 - 2013 ish, instead of the more expensive Japanese ones that actually lasted and didn't blow up.
       
    8. The_Wierd

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      Even more confusingly, if I understand correctly, there are two possibilities for micro-LED - true 'per pixel' colour LEDs and micro-LED as a high resolution local-dimming backlight for an LCD panel. Potential for consumer confusion, (or willful misdirection) is huge!
       
    9. Captain Ron

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      2600 SuperQdimming zones then.
       
    10. Cameron583

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      MLED - I'm calling it.

      Or uLED
       
    11. laser

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      I thought thought the whole point of Micro LED was a LED for each pixel.

      The report states that a 4k panel may use 2600 micro leds, thus it sounds like a normal LCD with more local dimming zones.

      With 2600 micro LEDs, it will be better than present LED LCD TVs but still not able to match OLEDS pixel by pixel control of the picture.

      Time will tell
       
    12. Base13

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      Unfortunately it looks like the second option here as the report mentioned 2,600 in the report. Per pixel would be a much higher number.

      EDIT: beat to it while typing.
       
    13. alancross

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      If this is just "2600 LEDs", then I agree this is very disappointing. On a 65" screen, these would be about 2cm square! A true uLED screen would require a minimum of 3 LEDs per pixel, so around 25 million. This is about 10,000 times the 2,600 quoted.
      So I'm wondering if each "LED chip" carries multiple LEDs (possibly 10,000), and panels are made up of multiples of these. Pure speculation, of course.
       
    14. invisiblekid

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      It's Samsung TV, willful misdirection is built into every TV.


      Also £12m? That doesn't seem much of a commitment. That figure seems more like they are trying to see if the Chinese are any good at them.
       
    15. Joe C

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      Sounds like the usual Samsung schpiel - promise brilliance, deliver mediocrity
       
    16. stevebk

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      And there was me hoping for something to compete with Oled, not so sure that's the case now..
       
    17. alancross

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      Further to my note above, speculating around 10,000 LEDs per LED chip, I've just found the following in:
      An introduction to MicroLED; a new self-emitting display technology - FlatpanelsHD

      "MicroLEDs are extremely small, typically 1/10th the width of a human hair, which makes it possible to deposit them as a pixel array onto a substrate to make a display."

      I'd say it's quite likely that Samsung are talking about a matrix of 2600 LED "arrays" rather than 2600 LEDs. Only that would make any sense to me. If that's true, then they are talking about the real thing.
       
    18. golden phoenix

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      they might be sorting trade agreements, but nothing about when MLED is coming to the commercial market could be years away
       
      Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
    19. Captain Ron

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      If this is indeed the case then this goes straight back to being an interesting technology again. Whatever happened to Sony's crystal LED I wonder. I've also thought why not resurrect back projection but instead of actually projecting onto a screen instead use an optical pathway array to deliver laser illumination from a central source directly to the pixel panels.
       
    20. Vertigo1

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      It only has to get close. If it can provide 95% of the black performance of OLED via 2600 local dimming 'zones' then that'll be enough for the vast majority of consumers.

      OLED's only advantages are black performance and wider viewing angles. As soon as LCD tech gets within a few percent of the black performance, OLED's days are numbered.
       
    21. Blu-rayx

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      OLED's advantages: Black performance and wider viewing angles, I take that any day over an LCD :)
       
    22. tman

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      OLED is almost like a stop-gap technology. The LED/LCD market was getting over saturated, so LG wanted something to seperate themselves from it. Sure, it's been moderately successful for them, especially once other manufacturers joined in, but LG have had to spend hundreds of millions to develop the technology, and they've likely not made much actual money from it. but let's be realistic, OLED in its current form is reaching the limit of it's capability. Will OLED ever get >1000 nits brightness, or can it be shrunk to work at 8k? Maybe Samsung were onto something when they decided not to join the OLED party. I'd say MicroLED, once it reaches mass market and is cheaper than OLED but without any of it's limitations will probably kill it.
       
    23. Vertigo1

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      Horses for courses. Viewing angles are irrelevant to me and I'll take 90% of the black performance in exchange for no issues with banding, near-black performance, image retention or limited brightness thanks very much.
       
    24. laser

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      OLED has been hugely successful for LG Display.

      Bare in mind it's not just panels for TVs. Oled screens go into all Samsung high end mobile phones and LG Display also supply Apple for their iPhones.

      It's likely that mobile phone oled screens probably make more profit for LG Display.

      Even if oled is a stop gap technology, LG are likely to have the premium tv sales wrapped up for the next 4 to 5 years and production costs will reduce over that time.

      However, you just need to look at plasma, it disappeared very quickly. Although the inability to move to 4K, heavier power requirements and limited sales compared to LED , ultimately lead to a quick demise.

      The TV industry is very fickle.

      Who knows what the next 10 years will bring.
       
    25. Blu-rayx

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      Just as long you are happy but an LCD would be Would be useless in my environment(chocolate fireguard ) :D

      LCD: clouding, blooming and uneven black would drive me nuts :rotfl:

      At the end of the day, there will never be the perfect TV
       
      Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
    26. BAMozzy

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      Well when Sony demoed the CLEDIS TV, that had over 8m (1080p) because each pixel was made up of 3 MicroLEDs - 1 each of Red, Green and Blue so I would expect the same would be necessary for a HDR TV to get the wide colour gamut and better accuracy. That would mean nearly 25m MicroLEDs for a 4k screen though - 3 x 8.3m.

      They could use a single Blue MicroLED per Pixel as a 'backlight' for a LCD TV with a Photo Emissive Quantum Dot layer at the front of the Display. That would give 'per pixel' dimming and the 'perfect' blacks too. The difference is that with a MicroLED TV, the LEDs are generating the colour and image where as with this, the MicroLEDs are mostly just a backlight. The way Photo Emissive works is that they use the Photons from the backlight to generate colour and image. They allow the blue light through but can change the colour to Red or Green without losing any of the light energy which enables them to hit much higher peak brightness without increase in energy consumption. Not being organic also significantly reduces (if not eliminates) screen burn risk too. Also by having the QD layer on the front, you get the same viewing angles as OLEDs too.

      The second option may be more realistic for the near future as it would only require 8.3m MicroLEDs. I know they can make 3 in one - but they do have more 'pins' to fix to the board. Its certainly simpler to go down the single colour route. They would have to change the way LCD panels are constructed - this is quite an interesting read on the next step for Quantum Dot and how it could be used with MicroLEDs Nanosys Details the Future of Quantum Dots

      It is a hybrid between the MicroLED we are expecting and LCD's and I think its a more likely next step in TV's. Of course we could see 10,000 MicroLED array next with a 100,000 in the next gen, then maybe a 1m before the 'per-pixel' backlight array comes. Depending on how good their filter is at blocking light where its not wanted/needed, it may not need 'per pixel' array. It may not be as pixel perfect but could still deliver incredibly dark blacks that you would need specialist instruments to measure that they weren't 'perfect' but on the flip side, also deliver significantly brighter images - maybe not even require any tone-mapping regardless of the way the content was mastered.
       
    27. golden phoenix

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      everyone needs to remember when it is eventually released, it wont be cheap.
       
    28. BRAKKUS1

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      Try again Samo. 8.3 million zones or nothing ;)
       
    29. Base13

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      Samsung make the OLED screens for the iPhone and their own phones. LG do make screens for their own mobiles and some others, but it is only in the TV market where it has dominance. They are rumoured to be a second OLED supplier to Apple when the next generation of iPhones arrive.
       
    30. alancross

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      Just doodling with a bit of arithmetic to see how Samsung come up with 2,600 LED arrays, the attached scheme is the only one I can find where the maths fits the known information - basically around 2,600 arrays with the same number of pixels in each.
      Anyone got anything better?
       

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