NEWS: Philips unveils 9636 and 9506 MiniLED TVs

akarma

Member
Just can’t see how it can get OLED blacks?
PUS8102 had only 128 local dimming zones but black level was close to OLED even in dark room. I'm talking about SDR though. With 1000 zones it should be much better and blacks will be on comfortable level for most people i think
 

jmacc

Distinguished Member
PUS8102 had only 128 local dimming zones but black level was close to OLED even in dark room. I'm talking about SDR though. With 1000 zones it should be much better and blacks will be on comfortable level for most people i think
Comfortable for most? I'm sure many will be happy.

Close to oled? Not a chance, maybe when it's turned off at the wall I guess.
 

tomhill

Member
I look forward to the review of this.
Mini-LED is something that could tempt me to move from OLED.
 
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UpgradingAgain

Active Member
Is Philips a reliable brand? Of the only two Philips items I owned long ago, both broke down and I have since felt they weren’t well made as a Make. How do owners find their TVs?
 

Tingo

Active Member
Didn't the Sony lcd zd9 have a thousand or so zones many years back ?
I don't see how blooming etc will be any better than any top end falds we have already seen. Every single mini led would need to be controlled, not just zones of them.
The blooming as I understand it is caused by light escaping through the gaps between the leds. The more that's packed in the less gaps and less blooming which also leads to better blacks.
 

skyform

Well-known Member
Just my experience. I had a lot of different TVs but was impressed by 8102 local dimming
You are a weird guy, bashing Sony and Samsung FALD TV's since like what, 2017 or something and praising PUS8102 which is a worse TV in all regards then newer FALD Tv's from Sony and Samsung. Also you are writting all the time how nothing comes even close to OLED, even trolling in some threads and now you suddenly changed the tune?

One guy replaced his PUS8102 with XG9505 and he said Sony is much better in everything. PUS8102 probably had black crush like most Philips have and as resault blacks probably looked better but looks you are not bothered by it and just want the best blacks without caring about losing shadow detail. Even Philips OLED's have the strongest black crush of all OLED's, Philips is known for their black crush.

I had four Philips TV's and my brother had two and all had black crush no matter if IPS, VA or OLED but that doesn't mean I'm not interested in Philips or don't like it, I liked almost all Philips TV's I owned, except PUS7303 and I'm very interested in Philips Mini LED and will follow it closely.

Just can’t see how it can get OLED blacks?
It won't but not everybody needs OLED blacks, FALD TV's already have very good blacks and if you don't compare them to OLED or even never saw an OLED they are more than good enaugh so if Mini LED can improve over FALD it's a win situation. For me personal, things like, processing, colours, gradation, shadow detail, motion are far more important that just deep blacks of OLED.

I had Panasonic GZ950 side by side with Sony XG9505 and kept XG9505 because I prefered XG95 picture most of the time over GZ950. Everything looked better on Sony except blacks and contrast but picture clearness, sharpness, details, colours all looked nicer on XG95. XG95 beat GZ950 especially in SDR and any content bellow 4k. HDR and DV looked better on Panny because of superior contrast but not by much, sharpness and detail like close ups on faces, planets in Ad Astra still looked better more detailed on XG95 even in 4k. I found the difference in SDR and worse sources much bigger than the difference in HDR and DV.

When it comes to brands it's a matter of taste which procesing, colours, motion do you prefer, all brands differ in this, some people think it's ony about the panel behind the screen but the processing is one of the most important things aswell and some brands do it better or different than others.
 
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jmacc

Distinguished Member
The blooming as I understand it is caused by light escaping through the gaps between the leds. The more that's packed in the less gaps and less blooming which also leads to better blacks.
If you have to light up an entire "zone" just to light a star or anything smaller than that zone or something that just sits slightly into that zone then the light from that zone will escape surely.
 
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akarma

Member
One guy replaced his PUS8102 with XG9505

I was talking about local dimming algorithm and blacks in my post exclusively. Sony is much worse in that regard and not even close to 8102. Black crush can be fixed by tuning settings.
 

skyform

Well-known Member
I was talking about local dimming algorithm and blacks in my post exclusively. Sony is much worse in that regard and not even close to 8102. Black crush can be fixed by tuning settings.

Nope it can't be always fixed, just check what OLED804 or 805 owners are saying, no way to fix black crush and FALD Tv's that don't have good local dimming algorithm or push blacks too far to minimize blooming usualy have black crush which you cant fix, like Samsung used to have . You can't have it both on a FALD TV, very good blacks and minimal blooming unless it has 1000 zones or more.
 

skyform

Well-known Member
I still don't belive it has deep blacks with no blooming and no black crush especially not with 128 zones at 65", it has to have some kind of downside otherwise that TV would be praised like crazy and Philips would continue producing it and would make a successor.
 

skyform

Well-known Member
Anyway back to topic, some prices

MINI LED:
  • 65PUS9636 / 2.200€
  • 75PUS9636 / 2.800€
  • 65PUS9506 / 1.750€

compared to OLED and LED

OLED 806/856:
  • 48" 1.320€
  • 55" 1.600€
  • 65" 2.200€

LED:
- 55PUS9206 / 1.100€
 
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Abdul70

Novice Member
You are a weird guy, bashing Sony and Samsung FALD TV's since like what, 2017 or something and praising PUS8102 which is a worse TV in all regards then newer FALD Tv's from Sony and Samsung. Also you are writting all the time how nothing comes even close to OLED, even trolling in some threads and now you suddenly changed the tune?

One guy replaced his PUS8102 with XG9505 and he said Sony is much better in everything. PUS8102 probably had black crush like most Philips have and as resault blacks probably looked better but looks you are not bothered by it and just want the best blacks without caring about losing shadow detail. Even Philips OLED's have the strongest black crush of all OLED's, Philips is known for their black crush.

I had four Philips TV's and my brother had two and all had black crush no matter if IPS, VA or OLED but that doesn't mean I'm not interested in Philips or don't like it, I liked almost all Philips TV's I owned, except PUS7303 and I'm very interested in Philips Mini LED and will follow it closely.


It won't but not everybody needs OLED blacks, FALD TV's already have very good blacks and if you don't compare them to OLED or even never saw an OLED they are more than good enaugh so if Mini LED can improve over FALD it's a win situation. For me personal, things like, processing, colours, gradation, shadow detail, motion are far more important that just deep blacks of OLED.

I had Panasonic GZ950 side by side with Sony XG9505 and kept XG9505 because I prefered XG95 picture most of the time over GZ950. Everything looked better on Sony except blacks and contrast but picture clearness, sharpness, details, colours all looked nicer on XG95. XG95 beat GZ950 especially in SDR and any content bellow 4k. HDR and DV looked better on Panny because of superior contrast but not by much, sharpness and detail like close ups on faces, planets in Ad Astra still looked better more detailed on XG95 even in 4k. I found the difference in SDR and worse sources much bigger than the difference in HDR and DV.

When it comes to brands it's a matter of taste which procesing, colours, motion do you prefer, all brands differ in this, some people think it's ony about the panel behind the screen but the processing is one of the most important things aswell and some brands do it better or different than others.
Just curios what's wrong with PUS7303 that you owned?
 

AndyC_772

Active Member
Just how 'mini' are these mini-LEDs supposed to be?

1000 zones on a 16:9 screen is about 42 x 24 zones. A 65" panel is about 1800 sq in, so each zone is nearly 2 square inches in area.

No LED is made that size; they're all a small light source with an optical diffuser to spread the light out.

Provided adjacent zones blur together seamlessly I can well believe that the end result looks good with most content - but where's the innovation here? What's been achieved that's new?
 

skyform

Well-known Member
Just curios what's wrong with PUS7303 that you owned?
Too many things, for the first it was worse than my old Philips from 2010 which was 8000 series 2nd best LCD from Philips in that year. The PUS7303 I got had IPS instead of VA, I expected a VA panel )which I prefer) because 7303 came out first as a VA TV but later Philips started messing with panels and sold both IPS and VA models so I got a IPS one and as with all IPS blacks were grey, poor contrast, backlight bleeding, banding and on top with terrible processing which you couldn't turn off. I had to set sharpness to 0, turn off perfect resolution or how was it called and picture was still way overprocessed and oversharpened, only monitor mode was without any processing which was too soft but it was so limited almost all settings were greyed out so it was useless. It's just shocking when you buy a TV after 7 years and your 2010 model which had amazing picture and processing for back then still smokes it. Colours and WB were a bit off aswell, especially WB, Philips Tv's are known to be quite bad out of the box but even after messing with settings like crazy I just couldn't get a picture that I like but it was meant for kids so it was ok for this purpose but then after few months it got damagad, so I replaced it with a Sony XE9005 which is so much better, no comparison at all but it's also quite a higher range TV but I got the 49" for 500€, barely used, almost like new so it was a real steal and it impressed me so much I got a 55XG9505 later in 2019.
 
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akarma

Member
I still don't belive it has deep blacks
It had deeper blacks than Sony Z9D or Samsung Q9FN. But i didn't say that it was perfect. It had a lot of issuies. I sold it. May be Philips have made some progress in last years.

After 8102 bought Sony XF9005 and was disappointed with black level perfomance. So i just thought if to add local dimming system from Philips to Sony XF9005 it would be perfect LCD for me personally. It's joke of course but....
 

skyform

Well-known Member
It had deeper blacks than Sony Z9D or Samsung Q9FN. But i didn't say that it was perfect. It had a lot of issuies. I sold it. May be Philips have made some progress in last years.

After 8102 bought Sony XF9005 and was disappointed with black level perfomance. So i just thought if to add local dimming system from Philips to Sony XF9005 it would be perfect LCD for me personally. It's joke of course but....
Well it can have deep blacks but not without black crush, blooming or somekind of sacrifice, like I wrote before, it's not possible for a FALD TV to have all that at once, deep blacks, no black crush and no blooming and with only 128 zones and even if the dimming algorithm is the best ever.
 

akarma

Member
As I said black crush can be fixed by playing with settings.

But my speech was not about PUS8102 from the start but rather that new models with 1000 local dimming zones can get much higher results in cantrast/blacks and light control even if PUS8102 with 128 zones was so good in black level perfomance
 

skyform

Well-known Member
We will see, I'm curious about Mini LED but in the end it could be nothing better than FALD. TCL is doing Mini LED TV's since 2019 and they are nothing special at all but TCL has a weak local dimming algorithm and their Mini LED Tv's are actually worse than current FALD TV's. It will be interesting to see what other brands can do with Mini LED.
 

youngsyp

Distinguished Member
If you have to light up an entire "zone" just to light a star or anything smaller than that zone or something that just sits slightly into that zone then the light from that zone will escape surely.
Yes it would.
With 1000 dimming zones, each zone would be made up of 8294 pixels. That's a lot of screen real estate to illuminate when you only require 1 pixel to be lit.

As others have eluded to, MiniLED from a consumer perspective is really just a rehash of historical LED/ LCD backlighting technology.

Paul
 

giggsy1950

Active Member
Just how 'mini' are these mini-LEDs supposed to be?

1000 zones on a 16:9 screen is about 42 x 24 zones. A 65" panel is about 1800 sq in, so each zone is nearly 2 square inches in area.

No LED is made that size; they're all a small light source with an optical diffuser to spread the light out.

Provided adjacent zones blur together seamlessly I can well believe that the end result looks good with most content - but where's the innovation here? What's been achieved that's new?
From what I have seen they are 1/40th the size of a regular LED. It will come down to the processing in my opinion. I'm anticipating better black levels (though not quite OLED quality) but assuming some ambient light/bias lighting and a powerful enough processor with a good algorithm, I'm excited at the prospect.
 

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