NEWS: Panasonic poised to move LCD TV production to TCL

Loopthrough

Member
What about the smaller sets being produced by Vestel? Will that stop?
Vestel only ever produced European/UK low end models for them, on and off, since 2012. I don't know/believe that's a proper deal.

Using Vestel was just a way of them being able to compete on price that would be impossible to do themselves with the quality of parts Panasonic uses.

If anyone wants to discuss it in depth, here's the thread I started.
 

Clem_Dye

Distinguished Member
A case of go cheap, or go bust, perhaps. A lot of Panasonic kit is now made in China, so this isn’t really that surprising. It will be interesting to see what the quality is like. I think that overall, Panasonic’s quality has been on the slide for some time now, at least based on the relatively new Panasonic kit that I have.
 

MikeTVMikeTV

Well-known Member
Yeah the top lcd they had was edgelit and was priced as high as the topend sony and samsung, if you're spending over £1000 on a TV you've probably done some research, they're lacking apps as well.

Had a 58DX750 and was very pleased with it, but since then there's been a mixed bag of IPS screens, poor local dimming and lower refresh screens so I havent gone with them.

Have a Q70r at the moment and will get the X95J come black Friday.
 

Ekko Star

Distinguished Member
Ultimately it would appear Panasonic look to be getting out of the TV business. They went cheap with the original Vestel collaboration. At least TCL can make some half decent budget to mid-range level equipment though.

It's been a slow lingering exit and the top end niche market is simply not big enough in the longer term for Panasonic either.

They look to be salvaging what they can from licensing out their brand name to the likes of TCL by the sound of it.
 

BillRawles

Active Member
I love my DX902 as do the guys over on that forum but Pana have not made a good LCD since that model (2016) so this was probably coming for a while. I can't say I'm a fan of how they've been gouging with the edge-lit mediocrity of the last few years.
 

Loopthrough

Member
Yeah the top lcd they had was edgelit and was priced as high as the topend sony and samsung, if you're spending over £1000 on a TV you've probably done some research, they're lacking apps as well.

Had a 58DX750 and was very pleased with it, but since then there's been a mixed bag of IPS screens, poor local dimming and lower refresh screens so I havent gone with them.

Have a Q70r at the moment and will get the X95J come black Friday.
Hmmm... they moved top end LCD over to OLED (replacing what they did when they made Plasma/with LCD covering low-midrange), so the HX800 can be considered "upper mid range", equal to Samsung's Q60T (same kind of price) and Panasonic's is more advanced and refined.

There's the HX940 but it didn't really get a launch in the UK (likely due to Covid).

TCL... from what I've seen, like most Chinese brands have the looks and the flashiness of the major Korean brands but when you drill down, they don't really back it up properly. They improve all the time but Japanese brands still have the edge on internal quality/refinement.
 

davidcrofter

Well-known Member
Unsure how this would work - is it a simple rebadge job or will Panasonic have a say in the processing and specs. I suspect if it's a rebadge job it won't be a success.

Panasonic really should just be matching Sony's LCD business model which appears to be doing OK but ignoring FALD was never a smart move from them as they ultimately lost a large part of their customer base.

Ideally they will have Mini-LED models moving forward with their processing and expertise added.
 

Ekko Star

Distinguished Member
TCL... from what I've seen, like most Chinese brands have the looks and the flashiness of the major Korean brands but when you drill down, they don't really back it up properly. They improve all the time but Japanese brands still have the edge on internal quality/refinement.

That's not true. TCL have developed inkjet OLED technology which is set to drive down the cost of OLED panels massively. As part of the JOLED (Japan Oled) venture involving Japan Display, Panasonic and Sony this new production technique is likely to have significant and far reaching impact on the TV market within the next 3 years. LCD will probably fall off rapidly in that time.

Given the changing landscape of the TV market in the next 3 years then this move makes sense for both parties. Panasonic have wanted to get out of LCD for a while now because they don't see any worthwhile longer term investment in it. TCL on the other hand can benefit from the economies of scale the Panasonic venture will give them.


 

Dodgexander

Moderator
A good move. Just can't compete with the money they have been charging for low end TVs and the Vestel contract was a big mistake.

I hope they can collaborate with TCL more in the future as they still have decent video processing.

Sadly they made a series of bad decisions in recent years, the main of which was continuing to use IPS technology in TVs they we're selling for high end prices. The second of which is the awful Firefox TV which is outdated, unsupported and with poor app choice.

If they can cut production costs and market TVs like their xX800 models at reasonable prices then they stand a chance of success imo.

I'm guessing this will mark the end of the Vestel deal. Doesn't surprise me since Vestel seem to now have a relationship with Hisense via Toshiba ownership. If Hisense drop out of that deal Vestel could be finished.

As for TCL themselves, they make fantastic TVs in the Americas but their European models have been hampered by poorer specs and Android TV. Even so, it's hard to justify buying Panasonic when the likes of TCL are now selling similar spec TVs at a fraction of the price. Looks like TCL may bring some higher end TVs to Europe this year. Panasonic should have done exactly what TCL did in the Americas and partnered with Roku instead of Mozilla.
 
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Ekko Star

Distinguished Member
TCL are a far different proposition than what Vestel were. Vestel was an unmitigated disaster for Panasonic and if anything it really tarnished their brand name.

TCL on the other hand is a bit of a sleeping giant. Their template into Europe has been to enter the mid-range and budget priced market. However, their aim is anything but that as they tend to provide feature rich and decent quality product at a very affordable price point.

Some of their TV's have Onkyo soundbars built it. Speaking of soundbars I picked up a TCL 9030 Dolby Atmos enabled with Ray Danz technology. I was quite surprised at the quality of the product as it punches far above it's price point suggests.

I don't think it will be too much longer before their TV's start to make big inroads into the EU and UK market. They are always on display in Costco and are priced very competitively. Very attractive propositions.

The inkjet OLED TCL panels will cost a fraction of what it costs LG as it is not a deposition process. Injket has far less wastage and a very efficient way to produce OLED panels. If anything this will force LG OLED's into a corner and on the other hand the wider LCD market itself. There is a significant change of direction brewing at the moment.
 
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Cliff

Distinguished Member
I thought the reason why Vestal makes so many brands, including Panasonic is because it is within the EU zone. If sets are imported from China then they will face an import duty.
 

davidcrofter

Well-known Member
I thought the reason why Vestal makes so many brands, including Panasonic is because it is within the EU zone. If sets are imported from China then they will face an import duty.

They have a production facility in Poland so it won't be an issue.
 

Loopthrough

Member
That's not true. TCL have developed inkjet OLED technology which is set to drive down the cost of OLED panels massively. As part of the JOLED (Japan Oled) venture involving Japan Display, Panasonic and Sony this new production technique is likely to have significant and far reaching impact on the TV market within the next 3 years. LCD will probably fall off rapidly in that time.

Given the changing landscape of the TV market in the next 3 years then this move makes sense for both parties. Panasonic have wanted to get out of LCD for a while now because they don't see any worthwhile longer term investment in it. TCL on the other hand can benefit from the economies of scale the Panasonic venture will give them.


I was mostly thinking of things like upscaling, etc. I agree the Chinese are beginning to innovate, and after all TCL also owns a major panel maker (CSOT) which they started with technology/help from Samsung.

The Chinese panel makers all needed Japanese or S. Korean help to get started. The Japanese and S.Korean panel makers were the ones who did the original innovating and R&D.

Panasonic began as an electrical and appliance maker. In a way, they are going back to where they began, but they made some great electronics along the way.

Interesting to see what Sharp will do when it comes back soon.
 

Loopthrough

Member
A good move. Just can't compete with the money they have been charging for low end TVs and the Vestel contract was a big mistake.

I hope they can collaborate with TCL more in the future as they still have decent video processing.

Sadly they made a series of bad decisions in recent years, the main of which was continuing to use IPS technology in TVs they we're selling for high end prices. The second of which is the awful Firefox TV which is outdated, unsupported and with poor app choice.

If they can cut production costs and market TVs like their xX800 models at reasonable prices then they stand a chance of success imo.

I'm guessing this will mark the end of the Vestel deal. Doesn't surprise me since Vestel seem to now have a relationship with Hisense via Toshiba ownership. If Hisense drop out of that deal Vestel could be finished.

As for TCL themselves, they make fantastic TVs in the Americas but their European models have been hampered by poorer specs and Android TV. Even so, it's hard to justify buying Panasonic when the likes of TCL are now selling similar spec TVs at a fraction of the price. Looks like TCL may bring some higher end TVs to Europe this year. Panasonic should have done exactly what TCL did in the Americas and partnered with Roku instead of Mozilla.
Don't agree re Panasonic/TCL. TCL and Hisense the premium Chinese brands though.
China will soon take over all consumer electronics. S. Korea will sell off brands one day!

As I understand, the Vestel-Toshiba UK/EU deal is still under contract and has nothing to do with Hisense. Once the Vestel-Toshiba UK/EU contract ends, the Toshiba brand will go to Hisense who rebrand Hisense's premium models as Toshiba (as well as selling them as Hisense). This is what happens across Asian markets.

Panasonic continue to use Vestel for small 'second room' models as of 2021.

I don't think the 2022(??) TCL deal will involve Panasonic designing anything. They will be TCL models with Panasonic branding.
 

Loopthrough

Member
TCL are a far different proposition than what Vestel were. Vestel was an unmitigated disaster for Panasonic and if anything it really tarnished their brand name.
Only in Enthusiast forums. Panasonic have had some massive sellers under the Vestel brand (just look at the number of reviews at Argos or Amazon for example for the Vestel versions).

I guess Panasonic copied what Toshiba did before they got out.

Vestel must be no.2 brand in the UK by sales after Samsung.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
China will soon take over all consumer electronics. S. Korea will sell off brands one day!
And it will be very easy for them to do so if other companies like Sony make similar decisions to Panasonic. I get your predicament when it comes to Chinese brands, but I think Panasonic really shot themselves in the foot. - This article is just proof they cannot compete on their own, and are doing the right thing joining forces.
As I understand, the Vestel-Toshiba UK/EU deal is still under contract and has nothing to do with Hisense. Once the Vestel-Toshiba UK/EU contract ends, the Toshiba brand will go to Hisense who rebrand Hisense's premium models as Toshiba (as well as selling them as Hisense). This is what happens across Asian markets.
It is, but the Toshiba brand is owned by Hisense. I don't know how long their contract is, but I don't expect it to continue once its over, since Hisense bought out the 'brand'.
 

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