NEWS: OLED Shootout Results in a win for Philips

[peggle]

[QUOTE="but maybe @peggle can delve deeper into what Natural and Perfect Motion are actually on in Standard. [/QUOTE]

Sorry, no way to tell for sure other than PNM is not Off or Max.

 

[david-park]

Does anyone still sell Philips TV sets?
Years ago they were so unreliable that everyone did not want to sell them, I certainly got bitten with my purchases and said never again.

 

[MultiRoom]

Does anyone still sell Philips TV sets?
Years ago they were so unreliable that everyone did not want to sell them, I certainly got bitten with my purchases and said never again.

Well, yes, I suppose they must do if they're still in the business. And the TVs themselves are now put together by TP Vision, who now own the Philips TV brand. So what you had years ago won't have been by the same company.

Incidentally, in about 1981 I had a Philips portable black and white TV. It was virtually indestructible and lasted until the late 90s when I had to get rid of it because I was embarrassed about owning a black and white TV. I imagine if you pulled it from the landfill it would probably still function if you could lock onto an analogue signal.

 

[xdoktor]

Hey friend...where is this store with W7 for Euro 3K? I would drive from UK to get one lol

veering wildly off-topic

The stores in this chain (that I refer to as "the Curry's like stores") are franchise based so the owners can make deals on their own with the respective brands' account managers so that's how every now and then you see a great deal pop up at one or only a handful of stores. It certainly didn't apply country wide ...
Below €5000 is a pretty normal price to come across for this model though.


Again ? Never at Mediamarkt (although the 55C7 was available for €1699 a few weeks ago at several MM stores, an unprecedently low price for MM even .) Art & Craft in Gent might be worth checking out as something closeby (if you don't want to go the Brussels area). Of course you would normally need a local address to apply for the cashback ... (have to add right now is between Philips cashback promo's but the new one is about to start shortly)

 

[fraggle]

So Phillips have tweaked their "shop display" mode to look more appealing to anyone who cares about the image than other manufacturers.

Completely irrelevant to home use. Completely irrelevant to a so called independent shoot out.

If it was completely independent no one from any manufacturer should have been allowed in the room whilst the demo was on, no one from any manufacturer should have greeted or talked to any of the "judges" before the event. Talk about pre-loading expectations on what to unconsciously look for / prefer.

Is there a proper way to do this kind of thing? Everyone has their own "tweaks" they like to make to reference settings, or rather whatever tweaks are needed to achieve the look they want, and that look may require different tweaks in different manufacturers sets and menus.

The only way I could think of doing this properly is by getting someone to re-write the TVs OS so that the menu system is identical in all, bring each judge in one by one, and let them use an All-In-One remote to adjust each TV to get as close to their preferred viewing mode as possible, and then having got each set as "ideal as possible", judge the sets.

Expensive to do, and slow, but it's properly independent and removes any particular settings / viewing mode being forced on judges who may not want that setting / mode.

 

[FZ26]

Everybody watches his TV set with the settings he/she likes best, BUT making all these efforts for a real blind test and then try the sets in VIVID mode ...!!!

It's a real pity each and every brand couldn't send a techie to calibrate their own Oled TV (not choose and select the set for the shooting, only calibrate and choose the best mode they think fit for their model)

So, OK, the Philips model came first, and not by a small margin, in the blind test in VIVID mode, but let's be serious for a sec, who in hell watches an Oled TV in Vivid mode at home ...???

Since it is Philips that organised the shooting, and knew in advance that their Vivid mode was "soft & balanced" (more natural) compared to the challengers' one, could that explain why in hell the sets were blind tested in Vivid mode ...???

This is a very weird idea, to say the least, considering that the Vivid mode is mainly used by TV makers in shops to attract customers eye, in very highly lit rooms, with hand picked proprietary demos ...!!!

 

[clydebest]

So Philips won the best PQ ... which is admirable ... but unless they get their tv's into the shops in the UK AT THE SAME TIME AS THE 3 OTHER IN THE TEST , then they will not gain a penny in sales .

As someone pointed out , out in November with CES looming in January ... full of the latest OLEDS laden with new specs , making the need for a new blind test

 

[lgans316]

So Philips won the best PQ ... which is admirable ... but unless they get their tv's into the shops in the UK AT THE SAME TIME AS THE 3 OTHER IN THE TEST , then they will not gain a penny in sales .

As someone pointed out , out in November with CES looming in January ... full of the latest OLEDS laden with new specs , making the need for a new blind test

Hoping 2018 OLEDs can do more nits and support 3D.

 

[richardsim7]

More nits, probably, hopefully someone will break the 1000 nit barrier (accurately)
3D? Wouldn't get your hopes up

 

[MultiRoom]

Apologies, there has a been a delay on delivering the stock to JLP. Target date is now the 23rd Nov but the great news is that the launch price will be £1799.

Just been in touch with JL. Apparently it won't be sold online, it IS now in stock but only in store, but it costs £2000! For all those that have waited this is a bit of a disappointment, given that the price has gone up £200!!!!

 

[Goldorak]

 

[leeb-1977]

so is Phillips 'back' as a brand then? are we now saying that Phillips TV's are comparable to Samsung etc? Does anyone think this is the case across the whole range of TV's?

I know this blind test was on a range topping Oled.... but how does the brand compare at the lower end of the price market.... say the £500 end?

 

[daveteauk]

Regret to hear that Phil, I believe to have not missed the point at all. I understood very well your intentions but I'm not agree in how this shoot out was made, plain and simple.
If you think a user of this forum cannot freely explain an opinion I'm open to delete all of my posts on this matter, no problem at all by my side. Please let me know if I have to do it, I'll do it immediately.
Insulting??? I do think you'll never find any insult inside them and it definitely wasn't my intention, maybe you have missed my point too. Unless you consider an insult "casual viewers".

I totally agree with you thx75 - I too have been accused of 'missing the point' on here, and have also been threatened with 'action' for my comments, which have expressed my dissappointment with AVForums 'supporting' a Phillips win. dejongj also believes I've 'missed the point', and made a weird comment about me needing to 'count to ten', and re-read my statement of my 'invitation' to this event, which I'm glad I couldn't attend. Phil, you talking of everythings OK if you like it - well THAT is the biggest 'missed point' I've read in this whole thread. This WAS about the best PQ, not what people prefer. This shootout was not done correctly, and Phillips engineered it to win, no surprise there. I'm sad that some people took away from this that the Phillips was indeed the best (which is what they wanted), and some people didn't appreciate the intricacies of the setups and adjustments made to each TV, and how they would affect the outcome - motion processing amounts eg. Some even complained of the LG being the worst for blacks in the tunnel scene, when it was in vivid mode. Who cares. That comments show little/no understanding of what they were seeing. Most on here would completely dissregard ANY evaluation in vivid mode, as no-one, who has normal colour vision, uses it. I suppose I would have put the Phillips 1st in that mode, as that is the mode that Phillips has engineered it to look better than the over saturated etc settings of the other 3 in vivid. This, IMHO, was a non event.

 

[Deleted member 27989]

I was 'invited', and was really looking forward to this 'shootout', but had to cancel. I'm so so glad I didn't waste my time and expense going to this BS 'test'. What a total waste of time. I would have ripped the Phillips guy for this 'comparison' if I were there. This was designed for the Phillips to win, obviously, and as someone has already said, Phillips have turned their Vivid mode down to a more 'realistic' level. Realistic, btw, is a dumb term to use when describing TV's set to this mode.

I'm angry. Angry that AVForums would agree to being associated with such a useless 'comparison', that showed absoluteley nothing useful. Excepting that Vivid mode, a mode that NO-ONE uses, is more watchable on a Phillips than on anything else. If that is the only way Phillips can get sales, then good luck to them, and those who believe that this comparison is meaningful, and buy their sets on the back of it - helped, aided and abetted by AVForums. AVForums, you should be ashamed at your association with this BS. AVForums, you were suckered into this, and you've failed your readers helping Phillips show their sets to be 'the best'. Disgraceful. Steve, when you found out the methodology of this shootout, you should have walked away and refused.

MOD EDIT:removed insults towards

Wow talk about missing the point of the event by a country mile Count to ten and read it again including the invite

That was the original post by you, well actually toned down and edited to remove the insults...BS, total waste of time, ripped the guy, dumb term, angry, nothing useful, NO-ONE, only way to get sales, ashamed, BS again, disgraceful...

.... dejongj also believes I've 'missed the point', and made a weird comment about me needing to 'count to ten', and re-read my statement of my 'invitation' to this event, which I'm glad I couldn't attend. ...

Do you still think my comment to count to ten was weird, dude you are getting (and seemingly still are) very worked up about something...

It was what it was; a blind comparison test where there was no clear winner...followed by a session to demonstrate how good processing could be with settings that most of us would never dream of using...It definitely opened my eyes that I would no longer instantly dismiss those kind of 'enhancement' settings...

Really not worth it to get so worked up about in my opinion...

 

[The Limey]

Let's halt this exchange please - this is going nowhere.

 

[MysteryMan]

I watched the shootout, read a few of the comments and this has given rise to a couple of newbie questions (please don't shoot me down in flames!)

Basically, I am a bit confused about this talk of "vivid" setting.

- In the pursuit of "best" picture, is it still better to get screen calibrated and watch that setting, ignoring all the presets?
- Did people in the shootout get a chance to compare calibrated v Vivid and, if so, which was preferred?

 

[Deleted member 27989]

Calibrated but in my opinion I would have like to see calibrated with the motion settings from vivid enabled. Then it could have been best in my opinion.

 

[ashenfie]

I watched the shootout, read a few of the comments and this has given rise to a couple of newbie questions (please don't shoot me down in flames!)

Basically, I am a bit confused about this talk of "vivid" setting.

- In the pursuit of "best" picture, is it still better to get screen calibrated and watch that setting, ignoring all the presets?
- Did people in the shootout get a chance to compare calibrated v Vivid and, if so, which was preferred?

The Vivid is a mode that is meant for shop floors. It does every it can to make a TV look good in a shop. From this perspective Philips believe they will sell more TVs and good for them if this works.

Most on here want the picture to look as close to the original picture as possible. So basically calibrated with all the "enhancement" features turned off.

Objectives are different and therefore the results are different. I can't say how the Philips TV are I simply have never seen one.

Philips basically need to get their TVs in the shops. If they can't get them in the shops then either give up or change your business model. I would be temped on a direct seller model with 14 day free trial. Using forums like this to generate support. The complex bit would be getting a range of premium products rather than just a great TV.

 

[daveteauk]

I watched the shootout, read a few of the comments and this has given rise to a couple of newbie questions (please don't shoot me down in flames!)

Basically, I am a bit confused about this talk of "vivid" setting.

- In the pursuit of "best" picture, is it still better to get screen calibrated and watch that setting, ignoring all the presets?
- Did people in the shootout get a chance to compare calibrated v Vivid and, if so, which was preferred?

I also am 'a bit confused'; confused by your question. When you say you 'watched' the shootout, do you mean you were actually there at the time? I ask as it seems a very strange question if you were. If you weren't, then what on earth do you mean? You say you've read all the comments, yet you ask a question already covered, fully, in those(these) comments. No-one, absolutely no-one, with reasonable colour vision, would even consider watching their OLED TV in any type of 'vivid' setting. That is why the Philips won, as they purposely made THEIR vivid setting, more 'natural' looking/less over saturated than all the others, which is why they arranged the 'shootout', because they new they'd win, by default IMHO. If you want a TV with a 'perfect' picture, straight out of the box, and without the need for calibration, then you only have one choice (2018 models notwithstanding), and that is a Panasonic z1002, as it was tested by AVForums, and that was the conclusion drawn.

 

[dollag]

I also am 'a bit confused'; confused by your question. When you say you 'watched' the shootout, do you mean you were actually there at the time? I ask as it seems a very strange question if you were. If you weren't, then what on earth do you mean? You say you've read all the comments, yet you ask a question already covered, fully, in those(these) comments. No-one, absolutely no-one, with reasonable colour vision, would even consider watching their OLED TV in any type of 'vivid' setting. That is why the Philips won, as they purposely made THEIR vivid setting, more 'natural' looking/less over saturated than all the others, which is why they arranged the 'shootout', because they new they'd win, by default IMHO. If you want a TV with a 'perfect' picture, straight out of the box, and without the need for calibration, then you only have one choice (2018 models notwithstanding), and that is a Panasonic z1002, as it was tested by AVForums, and that was the conclusion drawn.

Well considering all the TV's at the shoot out were calibrated and tested in their respected cinema modes and the Panny lost, you cannot say philips 'knew they would win'?

I agree they were confident about their vivid setting but do not take away the fact the most accurate TV out the box scored the lowest once calibrated with the viewers

 

[daveteauk]

Well considering all the TV's at the shoot out were calibrated and tested in their respected cinema modes and the Panny lost, you cannot say philips 'knew they would win'?

I agree they were confident about their vivid setting but do not take away the fact the most accurate TV out the box scored the lowest once calibrated with the viewers

Of course they new they'd win, that's why they set the 'shootout' up, with the vivid criteria, to win, which they did. The Pannie z1002 was not there btw.

 

[dollag]

Apologies your right it was the 952.

The first shoot out and obviously the most important was the calibrated shoot out, with all calibration carried out by Steve Withers.. How did Philips know they were to win this?

 

[Stever10]

Still seems odd to me the landslide victory for philips in both categories, when calibrated it is the least accurate compared to the other brands. The Panasonic has the most accurate calibrated colours out of all of them, yet scored terribly, Not saying the Philips is bad or anything, just odd results.

 

[Lin3ar]

Still seems odd to me the landslide victory for philips in both categories, when calibrated it is the least accurate compared to the other brands. The Panasonic has the most accurate calibrated colours out of all of them, yet scored terribly, Not saying the Philips is bad or anything, just odd results.

Maybe people don't actually prefer an accurate picture.
My mate swears that the picture on his 10 year old panny plasma (normal mode with cool colour temperature ) is far better than my proffesionaly calibrated C7.

 

[Stever10]

Yes it is possible the Philips had over saturated colours which was considered as "better". Again not saying the Philips is a bad TV I have never seen one, but odd how it won that so comprehensively and the EZ952 scored terribly when it is the most accurate consumer TV possibly ever made.

After using Warm2 and calibrated colours for years I cannot stand looking at cool colour temperature!