NEWS: Netflix support to end on older Vizio TVs

kinggo

Active Member
and that's why embedded services sucks. You buy something that for no reason one day just does not work anymore.
 

Rudzki

Standard Member
and that's why embedded services sucks. You buy something that for no reason one day just does not work anymore.
Not exactly for no reason, supporting older devices requires man power which is a limited resource. The more time spent supporting legacy devices the less room for development and innovation.

Not to mention old hardware simply cannot accomodate modern tech and features.
 

kinggo

Active Member
sorry, but that's just BS. I get that they can't provide some new stuff for this or that reason but if they have a working app on platform X and they still provide content that X can consume than there's no reason to cut it of. No manpower needed for working stuff.
The thing is that this pattern is waaaaay to common in the update era HW across all devices and platforms that is just wrong to ignore that or be OK with it.

In Croatia we are currently switching from DVB-T to DVB-T2 but hevc so a lot of people will need new TVs or STBs but that is something that can be justified since spectrum is limited as it is. But shutting of a working device just because its working app version is lower than a.b.cde is BS. I would get it if 90% of content would be UHD with DV/HDR10+ and ATMOS but since it's the other way around it's just wrong doing for end user.
 

GadgetObsessed

Well-known Member
sorry, but that's just BS. I get that they can't provide some new stuff for this or that reason but if they have a working app on platform X and they still provide content that X can consume than there's no reason to cut it of. No manpower needed for working stuff.
The thing is that this pattern is waaaaay to common in the update era HW across all devices and platforms that is just wrong to ignore that or be OK with it.

In Croatia we are currently switching from DVB-T to DVB-T2 but hevc so a lot of people will need new TVs or STBs but that is something that can be justified since spectrum is limited as it is. But shutting of a working device just because its working app version is lower than a.b.cde is BS. I would get it if 90% of content would be UHD with DV/HDR10+ and ATMOS but since it's the other way around it's just wrong doing for end user.
There is a cost to maintain an app on a TV for a long period of time.
If you develop an Netflix app today and then don't support it - in X years/months time that app will simply stop working. This is because the APIs for apps such as Netflix change over time and Netflix will drop support for older API versions after a certain period of time.

In order to keep availability of the app the TV manufacturer must update their apps regularly. Given how little money there is in making LCD TVs it isn't surprising that many manufacturers don't support their apps for very long. This is why it makes sense for manufacturers to adopt common platforms such as Android TV rather than trying to develop their own TV operating systems.

You should not expect apps on a TV to last forever/the life of the set. They may do, but you cannot rely on it. In practice if an app stops working it is hardly a big deal given how cheap and effective devices such as Amazon Fire Sticks etc are.
 

kinggo

Active Member
Or they just don't have to change it since there's really no need to.
I mean, when it comes to some really expensive military/space/medical/bank equipment or systems than things can drag for decades but when it comes to regular folks than they get middle finger salute every now and then just like that.
Meanwhile e-waste is just piling up all over the world.
 

Rudzki

Standard Member
Or they just don't have to change it since there's really no need to.
I mean, when it comes to some really expensive military/space/medical/bank equipment or systems than things can drag for decades but when it comes to regular folks than they get middle finger salute every now and then just like that.
Meanwhile e-waste is just piling up all over the world.
I don’t think you can really compare a missile defence system to John’s old Panasonic ET65 that won’t load iPlayer any more.

The things you mention have almost endless resource and budget (and are deathly important).

You need to consider it more akin to an operating system on PC. My Windows 10 PC won’t run a CAD program I used at school in 1999, but it will let me play games in glorious 4K at 120fps or more. But that PC I used CAD on in the tech department at school back then? I’d be lucky if that played Quake at 800x600.

There comes a point (right or wrong) that developers need to call it a day on supporting legacy devices and just move on to the next thing.
 

Tingo

Standard Member
If there is no cost involved in adding android platforms or whatever to a tv then thats ok but if you are paying for it in the purchase price they should all be removed. A tv is not a mobile phone and many people do not change tv's every couple of years. It would be interesting to know what the expected life span of the Netflix app on Sky q is.
 

kinggo

Active Member
You need to consider it more akin to an operating system on PC. My Windows 10 PC won’t run a CAD program I used at school in 1999, but it will let me play games in glorious 4K at 120fps or more. But that PC I used CAD on in the tech department at school back then? I’d be lucky if that played Quake at 800x600.

There comes a point (right or wrong) that developers need to call it a day on supporting legacy devices and just move on to the next thing.
so you just stretched something for 20 or so years and compared that to EOL after 4-5 years????

I agree that everything has to or will stop working eventually but your computer from 1999 can still run all the software that it came with. And here we are talking about how suddenly things that still could work just don't because someone somewhere decided to restrict access to certain version of apps. My tv which is SONY C series from 2015 can't do any of those modern wonders and is probably as capable as those Vizios and yet they still support it.
Dick moves. Nothing more, nothing less.
 

GadgetObsessed

Well-known Member
so you just stretched something for 20 or so years and compared that to EOL after 4-5 years????

I agree that everything has to or will stop working eventually but your computer from 1999 can still run all the software that it came with. And here we are talking about how suddenly things that still could work just don't because someone somewhere decided to restrict access to certain version of apps. My tv which is SONY C series from 2015 can't do any of those modern wonders and is probably as capable as those Vizios and yet they still support it.
Dick moves. Nothing more, nothing less.
Apps that connect to something over the web e.g. Netflix, do not last forever because the API underneath them provided by the data supplier (Netflix) change over time.

If I write a Netflix app today and it works and then I change nothing and the TV changes nothing, then the app will stop working in the future - months or a couple of years. This will happen because Netflix change their API and no longer support older versions of the API after a certain time. So even though I do not change anything and my TV does not change anything the app I wrote will suddenly stop working. TV manufacturers don't usually like users to see apps stop working so if they know that an API change makes their existing app unusable they have the choice of updating the app (which costs development time) or pulling it. In this case Vizio have decided to just pull the app.

However, it is hardly a terrible situation for a TV owner as for about £30 you can get an Amazon Fire Stick, Roku, Google, etc. that will have all the main apps. These devices will continue to work for a much longer time as the companies behind them invest heavily in supporting them. (Although even these devices are only supported by their manufacturers for a certain period of time.) Most LCD manufacturers wont be able to afford to make this kind of investment in supporting hardware.
 

kinggo

Active Member
Apps that connect to something over the web e.g. Netflix, do not last forever because the API underneath them provided by the data supplier (Netflix) change over time.

If I write a Netflix app today and it works and then I change nothing and the TV changes nothing, then the app will stop working in the future - months or a couple of years. This will happen because Netflix change their API and no longer support older versions of the API after a certain time. So even though I do not change anything and my TV does not change anything the app I wrote will suddenly stop working. TV manufacturers don't usually like users to see apps stop working so if they know that an API change makes their existing app unusable they have the choice of updating the app (which costs development time) or pulling it. In this case Vizio have decided to just pull the app.
I totally get how all that works and what is happening behind the curtain but again, there's no really good reason for that in most cases. Ever heard of backward compatibility?
If netflix or youtube can work on 10 year old PC that came without in in the first place than the service which was there when device was purchased should work as long as the device. Or at least not before the end of that extended warranty or insurance that everybody will try to sell for extra cash.
However, it is hardly a terrible situation for a TV owner as for about £30 you can get an Amazon Fire Stick, Roku, Google, etc. that will have all the main apps. These devices will continue to work for a much longer time as the companies behind them invest heavily in supporting them. (Although even these devices are only supported by their manufacturers for a certain period of time.) Most LCD manufacturers wont be able to afford to make this kind of investment in supporting hardware.
Well, it's not terrible for you, me and people who knows how to get around it. But try to sell that explanation to my mother, some grandmother and so on.
It's simple, if they are not ready to provide support for some reasonable time for some service than they should not implement it in the first place. What's the point of paying few k's for a TV just to end up with few dongles and remotes three years down the line.

So I get that sometimes this is necessary but my point is that everybody just took that for granted and is general practice between OEMs and service providers.
Will netflix also provide me with a new remote without their button that once they remove the service? I didn't pay for useless button.
 

Flynch191

Active Member
I agree about ewaste etc but.. Like old apple phones or android phones no longer supported. They can't last forever.

The logitech squeeze box systems I run on my home network all rely on the good helpful nature of the public to keep it running. Iplayer.. Spotify. Etc stopped working on these devices years ago. The hardware is capable... Still sounds great and runs solid never.. causing me problems. Every so often the BBC or Spotify will update to the latest technology in streaming etc... And they stop support for the older hardware... forcing ppl to upgrade.(why can't my ks7000 play uhd bbc?) If the community is large enough and has clever people keeping it alive then updates will happen. It's just something we unfortunately have to accept that they won't support their products forever...things are moving faster and faster these days... costs are getting cut.. And It's us the users that loose out.
 

nheather

Distinguished Member
Everything being SMART does my head in.

It’s like “let’s watch some Netflix”

Sits down on the sofa and wonders “how shall I do that today”

  • App on my TV
  • App on my UHD disk player
  • App on my AVR
  • App on my Amazon Fire TV
  • App on my Sky Q box
  • App on my games console
  • Or cast from my phone or tablet
Too many options, so much redundant functionality that I have paid for but will never use - just give me one that does it well please.

Cheers,

Nigel
 
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