NEWS: Marantz SR7012 AV Receiver & AV7704 pre-amp released

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Mark Hodgkinson, Sep 20, 2017.


    1. Mark Hodgkinson

      Mark Hodgkinson
      Reviewer & News Writer

      Joined:
      Aug 8, 2005
      Messages:
      14,027
      Products Owned:
      3
      Products Wanted:
      4
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +4,403
    2. dante01

      dante01
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Mar 5, 2009
      Messages:
      43,468
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +9,991
      Really? How did they arrive at this figure. Their own specifications for the SR7012 say it only has 110 watts available (8 ohm, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 0.08%) with just 2 channels driven?????
       
    3. geogan

      geogan
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Nov 28, 2005
      Messages:
      1,273
      Products Owned:
      25
      Products Wanted:
      12
      Trophy Points:
      117
      Location:
      Ireland
      Ratings:
      +590
      Only 9 channels of amplification again? In 2017. Surely for a range topper, that supports Dolby Atmos, it should have the four powered height channels instead of only two overhead channels.

      It wouldn't have cost much to add another two of the tiny amp modules that's inside these for the full 11 channels... or are they waiting for a future year (SR7015?) for this incremental improvement...

      Manufacturers can add all the "bells and whistles" they like but until they get the basics of a range topping 2017 Atmos surround receiver correct they are all pointless IMO :thumbsdow
       
    4. dante01

      dante01
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Mar 5, 2009
      Messages:
      43,468
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +9,991
      Marantz have announced that they'll be launching a new 11 Chanel flagship AV receiver early next year (maybe December?). The new model will be the SR8012. It will be comparable to the Denon AVRX6400.

      Marantz Unveils SR7012, SR8012 AV Receivers and AV7704 Processor with Alexa Skill


      It should also be noted that Marantz and Denon are for all intense purpose the one and the same concern. Denon will be introducing a 13 channel flagship model next year and already include the 11 channel AVRX6400 in their line up.


      I guess you also have to ask yourself why anyone without the space to accommodate more speakers would waste their money buying a receiver that has more channels of internal amplification? Why should they be taxed in order to fulfil the requirements of what is basically a minority share of the market? Very few people have the space to accommodate a setup with more than 7 speakers let alone 11 or more.There's also the arguement that suggests that packing lots of smaller amps into a box results in poorer performance and less power.
       
      Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
    5. Rockets

      Rockets
      Member

      Joined:
      Dec 16, 2016
      Messages:
      57
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      8
      Location:
      UK
      Ratings:
      +20
      It's alchemy from 700w power consumption.

      Another question why does the pre-amp/processor have to be sooooooooooooooooo ridiculously big. Now I have heard before from a guy in the industry that it's all down to saving money but really come on.

      And just give up the am/fm inputs. Hands up for people who listen to FM on a receiver ot pre/amp processor. Was there someone at the back?
       
    6. Rick84

      Rick84
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Feb 16, 2013
      Messages:
      2,215
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      86
      Location:
      Doncaster
      Ratings:
      +479
      Apparently the new 8012 will be completely different from any Denon unit and will be a complete Marantz design.

      I do wish all manufactures would be more transparent with there power ratings and not just quote 200watt per channel which is miss leading to some.

      When really that figure would be for a single channels running solo.
       
    7. geogan

      geogan
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Nov 28, 2005
      Messages:
      1,273
      Products Owned:
      25
      Products Wanted:
      12
      Trophy Points:
      117
      Location:
      Ireland
      Ratings:
      +590
      Great. Well at least they will finally give the option of an 11 channel receiver at last instead of forcing people to buy expensive processors to get the option.

      13 channels? What's the two extra channels for?

      Nobody is forcing anyone to buy a receiver with more channels than they can accommodate - people can always buy one of the lower models if you only want less channels.

      The argument about "lots of smaller amps into a box results in poorer performance" would be true if they actually increased the size and quality of the amp modules when they use less of them, but I don't think they do, they just have more empty space and use the same amp modules. Adding two extra doesn't mean they use smaller modules for previous nine channels. Obviously they would have to increase power supply though.

      Check this video out... there is even space on those side heat-sinks to plug another two (green) amp modules onto to make 13 channels...

      Quick Peek Inside Marantz SR8012 11.2-Channel...
       
    8. dante01

      dante01
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Mar 5, 2009
      Messages:
      43,468
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +9,991
      The SR7012 is in fact able to process 11 channels. You'd not need a standalone AV processor just 2 channels of external amplification if wanting an 11 channel 7.1.4 setup.


      So the lower tier models with fewer channels also include the same DACs and components incorporated into the higher tier models?

      It isn't quite as simple as you make it out to be.
       
      Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
    9. dante01

      dante01
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Mar 5, 2009
      Messages:
      43,468
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +9,991
      An Atmos 9.1.4 setup utilising width speakers.


      The full potential for Atmos in the home is actually a total of 34 speakers plus an LFE channel. The only thing limiting this is the availability of receivers with enough channels of processing and amplification. The full potential is a 24.1.10 setup.
       
      Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
    10. Rambles

      Rambles
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Jul 14, 2004
      Messages:
      8,602
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      136
      Location:
      UK
      Ratings:
      +1,413
      Crikey, 15 watts less than the SR7011.
       
    11. geogan

      geogan
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Nov 28, 2005
      Messages:
      1,273
      Products Owned:
      25
      Products Wanted:
      12
      Trophy Points:
      117
      Location:
      Ireland
      Ratings:
      +590
      I know it can process 11 channels - every amp from entry nearly always processes two more channels than they have built-in for some reason best known to manufacturers. I know the lower models might not be using the best-of-the-best components. But if someone wants their amp having best-of-the-best components and pays big premium for this then i don't think they would care about including two extra amps at relatively minimal cost that they may not use in their system. But this is irrelevant now when it is not the top model. All I said was you would think a top-of-the-range amp in 2017 would have 11 channels. Now I see it is not in fact top-of-the-range I am fine with it having 9 channels since the 11 channel 8012 is there soon.
       
    12. geogan

      geogan
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Nov 28, 2005
      Messages:
      1,273
      Products Owned:
      25
      Products Wanted:
      12
      Trophy Points:
      117
      Location:
      Ireland
      Ratings:
      +590
      Oh right. Two extra speakers on sides so you can have two side surrounds on each side instead of just the one side surround on each side. Makes sense.

      So looks like manufacturers now have a nice upgrade path every year - adding another 2 channels per year up to 24 in the end :laugh: (and I know the Trinnov and other can do it now)
       
    13. dante01

      dante01
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Mar 5, 2009
      Messages:
      43,468
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +9,991
      They do give another rating below the one I listed:


      I guess it depends upon the THD rating you use in association with the wattage rating? Strange way of going about things though.
       
    14. dante01

      dante01
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Mar 5, 2009
      Messages:
      43,468
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +9,991
      They are not surrounds and are front width speakers.

      9.1.4 Dolby Atmos Enabled Speaker Setup


      I think the big issue with having them is that Dolby Surround upmixing doesn't currently cater for them so a setup with the width speakers would leave the two extra speakers dormant unless the audio (metadata) was actually Atmos in nature and includes objects that would need them. The mixing of the home varient of Atmos doesn't often engage the widths while the theatre mixes do.
       
      Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
    15. geogan

      geogan
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Nov 28, 2005
      Messages:
      1,273
      Products Owned:
      25
      Products Wanted:
      12
      Trophy Points:
      117
      Location:
      Ireland
      Ratings:
      +590
      Oh that's just naming convention... they are exactly where I thought they were and can just as easily be called "side surround 2" as "front width" or as I said "Two extra speakers on sides so you can have two side surrounds on each side". They would certainly fill a big gap between the current side surrounds and front left/right during audio pans alright. I used to have the "front-height/wide" speakers up in top left and right corners of the room wider than the floor standing left/rights and it did expand out the sound even though it was simulated echo/reverb. Got rid of them and went back to surround-back though as the current amp hasn't got that many channels.
       
    16. dante01

      dante01
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Mar 5, 2009
      Messages:
      43,468
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +9,991
      Yes you are correct, apart from the fact that they'll never be referred to as side surrounds 2 and calling them that is incorrect. :)

      Why not rename the surround "not at the fronts 1" and the back speakers "not at the fronts 2" or maybe just use the terminology and naming conventions everyone recognises and the industry as a whole uses?
       
    17. geogan

      geogan
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Nov 28, 2005
      Messages:
      1,273
      Products Owned:
      25
      Products Wanted:
      12
      Trophy Points:
      117
      Location:
      Ireland
      Ratings:
      +590
      Everyone recognises? OK. Everyone is supposed to know the correct name for the 2 extra speakers in a 13 speaker Atmos setup. I doubt even 5% of avforums members would have known that, never mind general public. You also ventured into "reductio ad absurdum" with the other speaker renaming. The standard 5.1 naming is well known for years. It's well known that cinemas use many side surround speakers - the one at the front of each side is just another side surround. So that's what I called it, given I never heard of Dolby's not very well known naming for it. Anyway I'm not going to argue any more about it.
       
    18. dante01

      dante01
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Mar 5, 2009
      Messages:
      43,468
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +9,991
      I'll call you Bill from now on if that is Okay?


      Go post a thread in the speakers forum asking what they are called. Just because you don't know the correct term isn't to say there isn't a correct term for them and that you can use any term you want for them while refuting the fact they are called width speakers. Once you know the correct term then you should use it or no one will ever know what you are refering to and will have to continually ask that you explain yourself.
       
      Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
    19. geogan

      geogan
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Nov 28, 2005
      Messages:
      1,273
      Products Owned:
      25
      Products Wanted:
      12
      Trophy Points:
      117
      Location:
      Ireland
      Ratings:
      +590
      Is that another snide remark / attack? Nobody on this forum allowed speak unless they get everything exactly right? Do you enjoy antagonizing people? I'd like to tell you where to go with yourself.
       
    20. dante01

      dante01
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Mar 5, 2009
      Messages:
      43,468
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +9,991
      I believe that you are the one being agressive and antagonistic. You can go away and call your speakers whatever you want.

      Happy now.


      It is still a fact however that no one will know what the hell you are on about if you refer to the width speakers using the term side surounds 2.
       
      Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
    21. geogan

      geogan
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Nov 28, 2005
      Messages:
      1,273
      Products Owned:
      25
      Products Wanted:
      12
      Trophy Points:
      117
      Location:
      Ireland
      Ratings:
      +590
      Well
      Well done you. The forum big bully know-it-all. As usual once reported the posts will be removed and you will get away with your bullying again.
       
    22. dante01

      dante01
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Mar 5, 2009
      Messages:
      43,468
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +9,991
      As already suggested. Maybe post in the speakers forum and ask for clarification on the correct terminology.

      You're the one who asked me what was meant by 9.1.2 and I gave you the correct terminology given to the speakers used. I cannot help it if you refuse to accept the correct answer.
       
      Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
    23. geogan

      geogan
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Nov 28, 2005
      Messages:
      1,273
      Products Owned:
      25
      Products Wanted:
      12
      Trophy Points:
      117
      Location:
      Ireland
      Ratings:
      +590
      Why do I have to keep defending myself against you when it is you who do not seem to understand what I wrote in my previous posts?? Tell me exactly where I said I was going to continue to call them side surrounds after you told me the correct term for them? I was explaining to you why I called them that before you told me what they were called. I never said anywhere that I would continue to call them that. ***.
       
    24. dante01

      dante01
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Mar 5, 2009
      Messages:
      43,468
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +9,991

       
    25. geogan

      geogan
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Nov 28, 2005
      Messages:
      1,273
      Products Owned:
      25
      Products Wanted:
      12
      Trophy Points:
      117
      Location:
      Ireland
      Ratings:
      +590
      I meant just as easily called that if you didn't know the correct term and why I called them that previously.
       
    26. dante01

      dante01
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Mar 5, 2009
      Messages:
      43,468
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +9,991
      I did know the correct terminology prior to answering you. I've known the correct name for several years now. I'm sure my post history willl confirm this. It isn't new and not something specific to Atmos. Width speakers and their use predates Atmos. Audyssey DSX is probably the most notable example of this. The terminology isn't as obscure as you believe it to be.

      AS to "what you meant" I've only what you post to help me determine this and what you posted is what I responded to.
       
      Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
    27. Ideal AV

      Ideal AV
      Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

      Joined:
      Jan 12, 2011
      Messages:
      10,509
      Products Owned:
      2
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      Normanton
      Ratings:
      +5,818
      as far as i'm aware the 13 channel powered avr's will give you the option to either run 9.2.4 or 7.2.6

      The new Denon X8500 avr and Marantz AV8805 processor will allows these configurations i understand

      my own preference will be the former 9.2.4 setup as i left my front extra width speakers in situ after i stopped using the Audyssey DSX setup from 3 years ago, i preferred front extra width to front height when using DSX so a bonus for me :smashin:
       
    28. dante01

      dante01
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Mar 5, 2009
      Messages:
      43,468
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +9,991
      Any idea as to whether or not Dolby are going to address the inability of DSU to create pseudo width channels?
       
    29. Ideal AV

      Ideal AV
      Distinguished Member AVForums Sponsor

      Joined:
      Jan 12, 2011
      Messages:
      10,509
      Products Owned:
      2
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      Normanton
      Ratings:
      +5,818
      well i can’t say for certain but i think Dolby will give us front width or that’s my understanding

      i certainly will welcome this as i miss having the really wide fuller front end that i used to enjoy with DSX
       
    30. dante01

      dante01
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Mar 5, 2009
      Messages:
      43,468
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Ratings:
      +9,991
      You can actually set some of the older higher end D&M Atmos enabled receivers to incorporate widths into the setup. The issue has been that these speakers aren't covered by DSU and only come into play if actually playing Atmos audio. Not only this, but not every Atmos soundtrack utilised them. THe soundtrack apparently has to have been mixed specifically to use them if available or if included in the speaker configuration. This is bizare because all Atmos theatres are fitted with width speakers so one can only assume that the mix for home theatre differs from that used for theatre releases.
       
      Last edited: Sep 22, 2017

    Share This Page

    Loading...
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice