NEWS: Marantz launches SR5014 and SR6014 AV receivers

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Phil Hinton, Aug 8, 2019.


    1. Andy Bassett

      Andy Bassett
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    2. pevz

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      The simultaneous multichannel/zone 2 downmix feature has been a long time coming
       
    3. Simba

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      180+W per channel.....surely thats not based on all channels being driven.
       
    4. gibbsy

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      No. It never is and very rare do manufacturers actually produce figures when all are being driven. Sounds good though on the advertising blurb.
       
    5. dante01

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      Specifications for the SR5014:
      snapshot002.jpg
      Marantz UK | SR5014

      Specifications for the SR6014:
      snapshot003.jpg

      Marantz UK | SR6014



      As you can see, the rating that results in the 185 watt figure is one in relation to just one channel driven and handling just a 1kHz signal as opposed to full band audio. The associated 1% THD is also just on the edge of being acceptable.
       
      Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
    6. Jules

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      I feel sorry for the people working at the AV Amp manufacturers, being tasked with coming up with things to add to new models.
      My SR8012 already does things I don't use... as long it does Atmos, passes HDR, and sounds good, what more do we really need?
       
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    7. gibbsy

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      Sometimes you think the hardest task is how to change the 3 to a 4 on the model designation label. My receiver is well over four years old now. I doubt I'll even consider changing, breakdown aside, until HDR10+ pass through becomes available.
       
    8. steve sph

      steve sph
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      Could HDR10+ passthrough not be added retrospectively via means of a firmware update in the same way eARC has been?
      Although maybe even if they could, why would they as folks wouldn't need to buy a new AVR?
      I'm convinced a lot of 'improvements' could be added in this way, but I guess it's shooting yourself in the foot if you have a new product to sell.
       
    9. dante01

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      In theorey then this may be possible, but it ultimately depends upon the HDMI chipset employed and whether or not the manufacturer can enables this via a software update. None of the AV receiver manufacturers has made any indication as to wheher or not they can update current models or whether they will actually be offering any support for HDR10+.

      Most AV receiver manufacturers have previously updated their receiver to make them compliant with other HDR formats if those receiver's included HDMI chipsets that allowed for such updates to be made. They don't appear to have previously withheld updates simply to sell newer models.
       
    10. Jules

      Jules
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      But wouldn't they be better not investing the significant amounts of money involved in the launch of a new product? And wouldn't retailers prefer not to have to heavily discount old stock just because the new stock has a new number on it.

      A product refresh in this category once every 3 years is surely enough?
       
    11. dante01

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      THey churn out a replacement model each and every year anyway and the retailers already have to discount the outgoing models to make room for their replacements.

      Denon and Marantz will not however be introducing new models above there SR6014 and AVRX3600 models this year though and will be waiting until next year and the introduction of HDMI version 2.1 before launching new replacements for their higher tier models. I beliece Yamaha are also not introducing a replacement flagship model this year either and they too are waiting until next year and including HDMI version 2.1.
       
    12. gibbsy

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      I doubt very much that my Denon X6200 will ever get such an update so no point in me changing until it's in place on the newer models. Workaround is to have HDMI straight from the player to the TV and just use the receiver for audio, which is what I've done even though my Pioneer LX500 player is still awaiting the HDR10+ update itself. Promised for the autumn, although it was promised for last spring.:rolleyes:
       
    13. daveb975

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      I agree. I’ve got an SR7010 and I can’t see any reason to change.

      You never know what is around the corner of course, but as it stands I can see myself keeping my current AVR for years to come.
       
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    14. Scott_Mac

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      You have eARC that was the main reason I changed from a 7011 to a 7012. Though ALLM might be nice...
       
    15. CarMad

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      I wonder when someone mainstream is going to do a multi channel class D AV Receiver and move away from AB.

      In these eco times they often use far less power for a much higher power output and the drawnbacks with the latest smoothers / modules has them on a par or ahead for some peoples ears.

      I'd certainly be up for a switch if a Denon / Arcam etc. changed tac.
       
    16. Rambles

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      Pioneer are Class D.
       
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    17. CarMad

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      So they do I've never really checked them out. But they don't seem to offer much more power unfortunately. I want a class D with enough power to knock me out of my chair with the control but still be refined.

      Get a Nord with the tech from a Marantz, Denon, Arcam or Anthem and they would be very potent indeed. The technology done right on a small scale seems expensive but at higher volumes I'm sure costs can come down and it starts to become more ubiquitous.
       
    18. pulpfxn

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      As per Marantz a minimum of 70% of the stereo power will be available with 5 channels driven. So in this case at least 70W and 77W.
       
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    19. dante01

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      NO, that indicates that the ratings are expected to be at least 70% accurate and not that you'd get 70% of the 2 channel rated output while driving all channels. They guarantee that you'll get at least 70% of what they stated as being the rated output while driving the quoted channels with the quoted impedance at the stateded THD level, not that you'll get 70% of what is rated while driving more channels than specified.

      They don't give any rating relative to all channels driven.
       
    20. doug56hl

      doug56hl
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      Agree
      Can't agree.
      @pulpfxn stated 5 channels when referencing the 70% guarantee. As the link he gave notes Marantz has the 70% power guarantee, meaning that a minimum of 70% of the stereo power indicated in the specification section will be available when 5 channels are simultaneously used.

      Looking at the SR7011 which has a specified 125W for 2 channels (8 ohm, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 0.05%) that should give at least 87.5W for 5 channels if the 70% guarantee is as Marantz states. The bench tests of the SR7011 show
      Two channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads: 0.1% distortion at 138.7 watts
      Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads: 0.1% distortion at 104.9 watts
      Seven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads: 0.1% distortion at 75.1 watts

      Marantz SR7011 A/V Receiver Review Test Bench

      Marantz boasts their 70% guarantee which implies their receivers will be able to deliver 70% of the 2CH rating with 5CH driven. In the case of the SR8012, that would be 98 watts which my tests confirmed (95 watts x 5, 0.1%, 105 watts x 5, 1%).

      They
      (Marantz) actually sent me their test results (tabulated below) which came out a little higher than mine, likely because they regulate the line voltage and I don't and also because I was using a shared 15A line as noted prior.
      5 channel 114W ratio 81.4
      7 channel 99.4W ratio 71.0
      Marantz SR8012 Bench Tests & Conclusion


      While the 140W SR8012 results show 95W vs the 70% guarantee of 98W, the bench test notes It wasn't until after I completed these bench tests did I realize I accidentally used my 15A outlet instead of my 20A outlet to do the power tests. The SR8012 would likely deliver about 5-10% more power with 5 and 7CH driven if a dedicated line was used for these tests. Adding 5%/10% to the test figure gives 99.75W to 104.5W.

      So, for the SR7011 and SR8012, tests show the Marantz 70% guarantee is met (albeit at 0.1% distortion) and the meaning of the 70% guarantee is as @pulpfxn notes.
       
      Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
    21. dante01

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      EDIT


      I've found Marantz's actual statement relating to their gurantee:

      Marantz UK | Glossary



      So how does this relate to the SR5014 which is a 7 channell receiver and the SR6014 that is a 9 channel receiver? They gurantee 70% of the rated 2 channel rating relative to 5 channels driven.

      No idea why they themselves don't simply give a straight answer and state what their products output relative to all channels driven?
       
      Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
    22. doug56hl

      doug56hl
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      The statement which @pulpfxn linked to in their post (and I quoted from in mine). Can't have been that hard to find....;)
      Same way as it relates to the SR7011 which is a 9 channel AVR and the SR8012 which is an 11 channel AVR. 5 channel simultaneous output is guaranteed to be at least 70% of the specified 2 channel output. If running a 5 channel base layer and up to 4 channel atmos layer the atmos layer most of the time draws little power and isn't in continuous use in the same way as the 5 channel layer is.
      Probably the same reason (marketing) why Anthem, Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer and Yamaha also don't do this for their AVRs. And these don't even have a 70% guarantee...:(

      Only Arcam (specifies 7 channels) and Emotiva (all channels) spring to mind as companies who do specify all channel (or more channel) driven output.
       
    23. dante01

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      Marantz do not relate the guarantee in relation to more than 5 channels driven. The SR5014 is a 7 channel receiver and the SR6014 is a 9 channel receiver.

      Why the need for a maths degree and why not simply state the rating relative to all channels driven?

      They even have the audacity to suggest they offer the guarantee in response to other manufacturers using the one channel driven rating in their publicity, yet Marantz and Denon use the one channel rating when they abounce a new model and in their own press releases.

      You cannot even configure an AV receiver to output one channel and there's no means by which to bridge all channels into one output.
       
      Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
    24. doug56hl

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      And neither do they claim to do so. Try re-reading my previous post as to why this is valid for AVRs where up to 4 channels may be used for atmos. SR5014: 5.1.2, SR6014: 5.1.4.
      I don't even have a maths O level and even I (or rather my calculator) can easily do the specified 2 channel power - 30% = guaranteed 5 channel power calculation. It's hardly rocket science...:)

      As I previously noted most manufacturers also don't state all channel driven figure. Why the bee in your bonnet about Marantz...:confused:
      Try looking at the specs you gave in your post #5. Two channel output is specified in addition to one channel output.

      Marantz state "Measurement often has been done on only 1 speaker drive, with lower impedance than 8 ohms and high THD (total harmonic distortion) acceptance
      This was certainly true in the past for some manufacturers when the 70% guarantee was first introduced. That Marantz also continues to supply one channel driven figure at high THD is possibly to allow comparision to other manufacturers who do/did show one a channel driven figure.
      Actually you can. Configure as normal 2/5/7/9/11 channels and only connect one channel speaker. Also via their analogue inputs AVRs can be fed only one channel if so desired. Why anyone would want to do this is a conundrum, but it can be done. Possibly to bench test/measure one channel driven output perhaps...;)

      Even Emotiva gives one channel driven figures in their specifications. Only companies which don't on a quick check are Arcam and NAD. There may be others but I'd expect none of the major Japanese manufacturers to not provide one channel driven specs.
      And this isn't claimed. Why exactly would you want to bridge a 7, 9 or 11 channel AVR into one output...

      You're starting to clutch at straws here and are in full on whataboutery mode imo...
      You were wrong in your post #19 "NO, that indicates that the ratings are expected to be at least 70% accurate....not that you'll get 70% of what is rated while driving more channels than specified". Accept that, and move on.
       
      Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
    25. dante01

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      5.1.2 requires that 7 channels be driven simultaneously and 5.1.4 or 7.1.2 require that 9 channels be driven simultaneously.

      Please pray tell with you o Level maths what are the 7 channel ratings for the SR5014 and the 9 channel ratings for the SR6014?

      Please reread the post I made. I stated "press releases" and not their specifications posted on their website. The fact that you have to go to the specifications on the website to get the real world ratings is somewhat misleading.


      The announcement made here is a press release which states:

      Marantz launches SR5014 and SR6014 AV receivers



      Marantz are quite happy to use the one channel driven ratings they critise others for using in their own literature and press releases.
       
      Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
    26. dante01

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      One interesting new feature is the SR6014's ability to have a 5.1.6 configuration. I think that this makes it the cheapest model on the market able to do this?

      The preceeding Sr6013 was limited to no more than just 4 ceiling speakers and a 7.1.4 configuration.
       
    27. doug56hl

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      Do the two or four atmos channels need as much amplification or power supply all the time as the 5 base level channels do? What percentage of amplification or total power supply do the atmos channels need?
      As I said before I don't even have O level maths. And as you well know these are not specified. Just the same as for nearly all other AVRs by any manufacturer.

      However I see from test bench results of previous models that Marantz 7 channel ratings are higher (SR7011, 7 channel driven tested 60% of rated 2 channel) than those from certain other Japanese manufacturers
      7 channel driven 28% of rated 2 channel:
      Yamaha Aventage RX-A2070 A/V Receiver Review Test Bench
      or 7 channel driven 30% of rated 2 channel
      Yamaha RX-A730 Network A/V Receiver Test Bench
      or 7 channel driven 35% of rated 2 channel
      Yamaha Aventage RX-A3060 A/V Receiver Review Test Bench
      You said "when they abounce a new model and in their own press releases" Anounce would include the specifications listed in the product web page which the press release links to.

      Your link is to the AVforums article. The Marantz press release states:
      Prioritizing rich, powerful audio, the SR6014 features high-current discrete power amplifiers on all channels to deliver 185 watts of power per each of the nine channels.
      Marantz UK | New Marantz AV Receivers offer the most musical sound for any application including home theatre, vinyl and digital music streaming

      The press release is, I'd agree, misleading. It is factually correct in that any of the channels can provide 185W on it's own and if driven to a high THD level. It just fails to mention you don't get this wattage when you use all channels at the same time and you don't really want to drive to a high THD. Marketing speak is very similar to politician speak in that regard. But in this they are no better or worse than any other Japanese manufacturer.

      However, anyone who just reads a press release as the basis to buy anything rather than the announced detailed specifications needs their head examining. And the detailed specs linked from the press release clarify the picture especially when read together with the 70% guarantee. I can't think of another Japanese AVR manufacturer which specifies a guaranted 5 channel output level.

      Sad to see you are continueing to be in whataboutery mode by concentrating on the unimportant part of the Marantz 70% Guarantee (why they say they do this), rather than the major point (what the consumer is guaranteed to get).
       
    28. dante01

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      Do they need driving at the same time? Yes. There's no reason why those channels wouldn't require as much power as any of the other channels. The mix isn't channel based and the audio they portray is full band. The integral amplification modules are all identical. Besides which, that isn't the question and the question is what is the power rating for all channels driven? Driving 4 additional channels will reduce what power is available to the other 5 channels and as such the power per channel decreases the more channels are driven. There is only one power supply for all 9 channels.

      The AVForum news report accredits a Marantz press release as its source. What you are reading is the press release and not an independently wriitten third party news report.

      snapshot002.jpg


      and no, there's no link to the associated specifications posted within the report either. I posted the links in the discussion thread.
       
      Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
    29. gibbsy

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      It has to account for it when all speakers are totally active in a something like a high action scene. Trying to maintain 70% when all channels are driven. I'm sceptical.
       
    30. doug56hl

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      In several years of listening to atmos soundtracks I've never heard my atmos speakers be as loud as the front LCR. While they may be driven at the same time there is often very little content coming from them.

      Look at the Emotiva XPA Gen3 7 and 9 channel amps. All have just 65W atmos channel amplification modules vs their 300W base layer ones. A ratio of roughly 20% amplification for atmos vs 80% for base layer. I'm guessing they may have some reason to have taken that design decision. The power output capabilities of the various channels on the XPA-9 were optimized to provide the best sound quality in real-world listening conditions; the main channels, which are the most critical for both dynamic music reproduction and crystal clear dialog, receive the most power.
      That is your question...
      The source, but not the actual Marantz verbatum press release. Or do you think all Marantz press releases include links to Avforums articles...;)

      The Marantz news report itself includes links to the product web pages with specs.
       
      Last edited: Aug 10, 2019

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