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NEWS: Marantz AV8805 4K Ultra HD 13 channel pre-amp announced

Discussion in 'AV Pre-Amp/Processors & Power Amps' started by Mark Hodgkinson, Feb 22, 2018.


    1. Mark Hodgkinson

      Mark Hodgkinson
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    2. geogan

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      For 4 grand, is Audyssey MultEQ XT32 really good enough? I would have presumed at this stage in 2018 top-of-the-range AV and pre-amps would start using Dirac EQ.
       
    3. Pecker

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      Confused.

      13?

      7 'flat' (LCR at the front, 2 surrounds and 2 rears) and 4 in the ceiling.

      7 + 4 = 11.

      13?
       
    4. linnasak

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      Are you planning on reviewing this, would be interesting to compare to say Arcam AV860 or the pre outs of a base receiver like the SR7012. Also from looking at data sheet it has 7.2.6 or perhaps 7.2.8 as shows 4 pairs of height channels.

      Be interesting to see manual to see what combos available. 1st processor sub £10k I think with 6 height channels!

      Kevin
       
    5. The Dreamer

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      I asked on your Facebook pages to take a look at it at CEDIA, did you guys get a chance to do this?

      A bit less than 4 grand, and real pricing should be less than that again - more like 3 and a bit. Word is, from those in the know (over on AVS), that XT32 combined with the Audyssey App, is comparable to Dirac. By limiting what gets ‘corrected’ and what gets left alone, and then working your own preferences into the mix (house curves) XT32 in later model processors/amps is a different beast to XT32 of old. TBH it’s a shame it’s kept the same name, as people assume it’s the same (OK, I know it is the same without the App, but still....)

      9 + 4 = 13

      Or

      7 + 6 = 13

      This can do either 7.2.6, or 9.2.4..... but see below.....

      It can be configured as 7.2.6, or 9.2.4; however, there are 15 outputs (+ subs), so you can wire for 9.2.6, and the processor will decide which 13 of the 15 speakers to use, depending on the source, or up mixing being used (I’m not sure yet if you can force it to use specific speakers).

      It can be configured as 7.2.8, I believe, with ‘Centre Height?’ and ‘Voice of God’ for Auro 3D (to be enabled with a free firmware update).

      If you go down this route, 15 channels of amplification will be needed, but only 13 will be used at any one time.

      The manual isn’t yet on their web-site, but if you look at Denons web-site, the X8500H AVR has basically the same specs as the Marantz - just with added amplifiers.

      This processor has been known about for some time; I can only assume that AVForums hasn’t been allowed to comment by some Non-Disclosure deal until now. I got a little ahead of myself and started an owners thread last October!

      Marantz 8805 owners thread
       
    6. Hixs

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      Just for future reference, nothing in Europe is ever sold for the £/€ conversion rate. If that retails for 3.5k in the UK, it'll be closer to 4.5 to 4.7k here in France.
       
    7. The Dreamer

      The Dreamer
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      RRP in Europe is €3999, so it’s unlikely you’ll have to pay more than that. I’ve found buying from Amazon.de to be quite cost effective at times, as is Amazon Italy - I’ve even had things shipped to the UK for free with Prime delivery (though not always)!
       
    8. geogan

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      Big difference is that XT32 still uses basic low-end processing chips built into the receiver to do all the calculations for the correction curves, whereas Dirac sends the data to their own server based high end "super-computers" to do the calculations. Since they can do many, many more calculations over similar (or longer) time, than basic local hardware, the correction curves should be much more accurate from Dirac. I'm no expert but would presume this to be the case.
       
    9. The Dreamer

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      I too am no expert, and the Dirac system is indeed powerful - but two things stick out (for me) - just how much processing power is actually needed? and I could never bring myself to rely on external servers to do this processing. Dirac goes bust, or stops supporting your version of software/firmware/whatever, and what are you left with? Personally, I'd want self contained processing, not reliant on someone/something else outside of my control.

      There is, in theory, no reason why the App itself couldn't perform the necessary calculations and simply send what is required back to the processor. Indeed, in it's simplest form, this is what's happening - the processor is taking the measurements, passing them to the App, the App is then played with by the end user, and curves/limits applied. It may still not be as powerful as Dirac - but it seems, by the people that use it, it's more than adequate.

      I'll find out if my optimism is misplaced in a couple of months! ;)

      Oh, and for those thinking that 48KHz sampling isn't as good as 96 or 192KHz - that myth has been debunked over on AVS - as anything above 48KHz is well above anything audible; but it seems it's good marketing by various vendors.
       
    10. sammy the squid

      sammy the squid
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      On the Datasat platforms, all the number crunching is simply done on a laptop, which platforms rely on Dirac themselves doing the number crunching? The Arcam iteration? Storm Audio also utilise Dirac eq, not sure how their version operates as far as the calculation side of things goes.

      Irrespective of what is said on Avs, I’m highly dubious of the latest version of Xt32 getting anywhere near Dirac, Room Perfect or the custom Trinnov eq solution.
       
    11. The Dreamer

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      I can't tell you which system needs server connections - I was just responding to geogan's post, and he stated that Dirac used their servers to do the correction.

      I'm almost, but not quite in agreement. As I'm sure Dirac, RP etc. are great correction systems - and indeed, are probably the best you can get. However, I do think that XT32, with the App, will get close - no, not exactly the same, but close enough for most of us.

      Tests have already compared Dirac to XT32 and practically no difference between the two were discerned by ear - there are probably measurable differences, and indeed I find myself dubious that amateurs such as ourselves could actually produce meaningful results, as such a test would require stringent control parameters to be truly meaningful; so I wouldn't rely on such a test done by enthusiasts no matter how well meaning they were.

      Nevertheless, the fact that such a test was attempted, and no discernable difference was heard I do find intriguing - after all, there is only so much correction that can be applied that is actually in the audible domain, anything else may give bragging rights, but if you can't hear it, what's the point?

      And I while I appreciate it isn't possible for everybody, I actually think the room itself will have a far greater impact on how everything sounds - so fixing the room, rather than relying on electronic wizardry would, in most cases, yield better, and more cost effective results. At the moment, I'm not using any room correction trickery, and to my ears, the room sounds great - not perfect, certainly, it hasn't yet got that big cinema sound - but then I'm only utilising a single 10" sub, and 2nd hand smaller MK speakers, as I haven't built my replacements yet.

      As I said earlier - time will tell whether my optimism is misplaced!
       
    12. sammy the squid

      sammy the squid
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      Without more details of this comparison, it’s difficult to make further comments, but going off your response, I’m assuming that you’re unaware that the quality of Dirac implementation varies across the platforms? So Dirac implantation on the Arcam won’t necessarily yield the same results as say it’s implementation on the Storm or Datasat platform, or even the stand alone Dirac kits. So Without any of this info to hand, Im not sure how you’re reaching your conclusions?

      No offence, but I can see you’re quite optimistic about this unit (starting an owners thread 6 before the machine is even released kind of gave that away ;))and nothing wrong with that, but you’re drawing some conclusions based on limited 3rd party information which may ultimately leave you disappointed. It’s a decent feature set, but I’d wait till you get a listen to one before you decide about the audio quality.

      Also, fair comment about the room:thumbsup:
       
    13. The Dreamer

      The Dreamer
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      Ooops! You're right - I thought Dirac was Dirac - I wasn't aware of different flavours....and actually, having gone back over that article, the authors did further testing later, and preferred Dirac (actually Dirac Live from a miniDSP - (I'm sure that the site being sponsored by miniDSP didn't sway them at all;) - in all fairness, they did declare it)).

      I know that Dirac is held in higher regard than XT32 - but there's not a lot I can do about it - the Marantz and Denon units don't have it, so in many ways the point is moot; I'm certainly not going to head down the Datasat or Trinnov route (much as I may enjoy them), my wife would kill me! I'm probably going to keep quiet about how much the Marantz is going to cost! :D

      I think I'll be pretty happy with the Marantz - I don't hear many owners of the 8801, or 8802s complaining about sound quality, and the 8805 is supposed to offer some benefits over those, as well as the extra channels. And I'm coming from an Onkyo 818 - so expect it's a move in the right direction, even if it doesn't reach the giddy heights of Datasat, Trinnov or Lyngthingy.

      At the price point - and I think the price is important here - there is simply nothing else that offers 13 channels of processing with 15 available outputs. The next step up in channels would be the Datasat, at around 3 times the price!

      A few years ago we were all pretty happy with no room correction available at all - the differences between Dirac, RP, and XT32 do seem like a first world problem.:)
       
    14. sammy the squid

      sammy the squid
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      You only get 11 channel discreet Atmos processing on the Rs20i, so in that regard the Marantz is currently on top.

      Anyway, I hope the marantz brings you much joy when you get around to picking it up :)
       
    15. The Dreamer

      The Dreamer
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      Oh! Really? I thought the Datasat could do 16 channels - or is this capability an add-on? Anyway, I can't justify it, so again moot. Maybe if I have any pension left when I retire I could treat myself!

      ...and amplification for all these channels isn't free either! My wife has just discovered me 'doing a deal' for yet another power-amp! Which is going to double the price, as she's said she's off to the jewellers next week to keep up with my spending! :facepalm:
       
    16. sammy the squid

      sammy the squid
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      The Rs20i is a 16 channel machine (expandable to 24) but for the purposes of processing Dolby Atmos, it’s currently still at 11.1 channels (one of the reasons I moved away from the platform).
       
    17. The Dreamer

      The Dreamer
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      Marantz AV8805 Manual
       
    18. linnasak

      linnasak
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      Thanks for finding this.

      Looking at page 70 is interesting layout of 15.1, different groups of 13.1 s to be used with atmos and auro 3D. Now I had resigned to in ceiling speakers for atmos, which will need some selling to my partner as need to cut holes etc. But this layout shows front height and rear height plus top middle for atmos. Then for auro 3D front height and rear height plus front centre and top centre. Anyone tried this? Is it a compromise. Steve W feels like a review awaiting here!

      Kevin
       
    19. cableman

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      In my opinion Audyssey is pretty crap. I turned it off on my Denon AVP A1 and tuned the system by ear and some tape measuring
       
    20. The Dreamer

      The Dreamer
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      Audyssey is a company. I think you mean MultEQ is crap, which was Audyssey's first major foray into room correction and incorporated into the AVP A1. And in that regard you may well be right, particularly when comparing it to todays room correction systems.

      There is a great article over on HTS on how to get the best out of MultEQ, which shows both its benefits and it's limitations. Getting the best from MultEQ.

      A bit late for you - and if your experience has been sullied once, I can understand the reticence to accept that things have moved on over the last decade.

      It seems that Dirac came up with solutions that have worked well from their first iteration, and so the love is for that system. Having queered their initial pitch, Audyssey seem to have a mountain to climb to gain peoples acceptance.

      I haven't yet used either, preferring to treat my room instead - I can accept that Dirac is a good product, there seem to be no detractors; I have yet to experience the 'badness' of MultEQ in any form - but the XT32 with the App is getting good reviews from most users and is certainly miles away from the MultEQ of yesteryear.
       
    21. cableman

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      I tried XT and XT32. Neither came close to setting sound satisfactory. I’d read the reviews at the time and people were raving about them. So I was excited to try. What a let down. Unlistenable IMHO particularly for multi channel music which requires more accurate set up at least to my ears. I haven’t tried the app or Dirac
       
    22. The Dreamer

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      Well, I'll probably be in the same boat as you in a few months then - tape measure in hand! I believe the App still uses XT32 as its base, but allows frequency cutoffs and curves to be applied - whether that's enough to make the difference, i don't know - I'm hopeful, but also realistic.

      As I say, treating the room is my preferred method.
       
    23. geogan

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      I don't know about how Datasat handles the processing, but Arcam definitely sends the data from the software running on your PC/laptop to servers in Sweden to do the very large number crunching involved - are you sure you are not just thinking of the Dirac software running on laptop but still communicating in background when you start processing the measurements?

      Dirac also does important time-domain correction (called impulse response) as well as frequency domain correction that other systems like XT32 do not do (I think).

      Also someone said they measure with tape measure - cannot replicate what these correction systems do to the frequency/time domains at all by turning them off and using tape-measure :laugh:

      See the extract from AVForums review of Arcam AVR850 here:

      "The graph on the left is the initial frequency response of the front left and right speakers in our home cinema and along with the nulls you can also see a slight dip between 1.5 and 3kHz, which is typical of the B&W floor standing speakers we are using. The second graph shows the result after communication with Dirac in Sweden, the software connects with Dirac's own mainframe computer which crunches the data, delivering a near perfect response curve.
      [​IMG]
      [​IMG]

      Unlike other room correction software, Dirac Live also addresses impulse response, which is what the graphs above show. The graph on the left is the initial impulse response in the room, whilst the graph on the right shows the improvements in impulse response made by Dirac Live. The corrected impulse response removes any pre-ringing and improves the reverberations, resulting in more detail and better imaging."
       
    24. FunkiestMonkey

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      The Denon?
       
    25. FunkiestMonkey

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      Usually people who do not like Audyssey have set it up incorrectly.

      I know this because I have made many mistakes in the past and formulated a good method to get the best out if it (without the app).

      The biggest mistake is people either not using enough seating positions during mic tones, or not adherign to the recommended measuring poositions for the measurements.
       
    26. The Dreamer

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      Yes, of course! I was neglecting the Denon - but you are right, aside from the amplification, and a couple of bits and bobs, their capabilities are pretty much identical. :smashin:
       
    27. The Dreamer

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      That's good to know. I'll hit you up for your methodology when I get around to my calibration!

      Over on AVS there is a decent guide to Audyssey - written by our very own @kbarnes70

      Audyssey Guide
       
    28. scoc

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      Even when you do follow the so called guidelines Audyssey is one of weakest room measurement systems. I simply cannot understand why D&M are keeping up with this poorly executed room measurement system. Only possible reason is they will most likely get it for peanuts considering the volumes they sell but it is not selected based on the quality it provides.
       
    29. mbmapit

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      On the 4 different products (Datasat, Audio Control, MiniDSP, Storm Audio) I have used Dirac the software has never used remote servers to do the calculations. Dirac uses the far higher power of the laptops CPU to run all of the calculations. I'd be interested to know where this information came from.
       
    30. FunkiestMonkey

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      My experience has been amazingly positive. With Sacds, movies, and blu ray audios, i.e. "lossless" soundtracks in particular, the results are astonishing.

      I have an Atmos encoded blu ray of choir music and it is like you are in the church. It is truly life-like. And the credit must go to the Audyssey system in my 4300.
       

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