NEWS: Electric cars to get a much needed boost

Whoo, calm down, where did I suggest closing eyes??!!

Its 700 miles from Calais to Lake Como. The car would quite happily do 150-200 miles between Superchargers, at 70mph with no traffic thats about 2hr-2.5hr driving.

So x4 20-30 minutes stops/breaks for charging between stints seems reasonable, in what ever car providing you rest the day before. With Autopilot you simply get less stressed, but I've not suggested anywhere about falling asleep or not paying attention??

But actually most people simply don't drive those distances, 350 miles in one day with a few stops taking our time seems more reasonable.

The point is with EVs if you really really wanted to drive 600 miles overnight you can.

Apologies @gangzoom , I inferred from your reply to @Bl4ckGryph0n 's post....

Drive through the night. Set off at around 9pm, switch drivers every 2 hours, leave the engine running, and the child wakes up happy in the Swiss alps in the morning. Have some nice breakfast and a fun and short journey to the lakes...

I really wouldn't mind doing that, with Autopilot wouldn't even need to swap drivers, charging on Tesla Superchargers wouldn't add that much extra time stopping on an overnight run but SWMBO isn't having any of it :(.

...that you'd be driving through the night, only stopping to recharge every few hours on a transcontinental run and using Autopilot to do the driving for you. It's hard enough to keep your eyes open when driving through the night anyway, when you have something to do (driving), I can guarantee that anyone trying it with Autopilot engaged will fall asleep, or at the very least be in such a low state of arousal (no laughing at the back), that they may just as well have got behind the wheel having drunk several pints - the effect is so similar.

Anyway, my point still stands about the 'autopilot' function - it is great when it works, which is most of the time - but if you're not ready to intervene, they will, at some point leave you in a precarious position.

Google 'Children of the Magenta' - you'll find lots of interesting stuff about automation, and it's effects in the aviation world. As I say, the automotive industry could learn a lot, but don't seem to want to - and it will lead to deaths - just as it has in aviation. (Children of the Magenta is a reference to those pilots that have grown up with automated systems in aircraft, and very little experience of what to do when it all goes wrong - in Boeing aircraft, the track the aircraft follows on the navigation displays, is a Magenta line, and any 'commanded' parameter is also displayed in Magenta). It may just make you think before you next engage the 'autopilot' - I'm not saying don't do it, but do it recognising both it's, and your, limitations!
 
Whats the point of quoting facts in the face of blind ignorance?
As mentioned, the number of houses in that report was less than 0.01% of the total number of houses in the UK. So even if 60% had some off road parking, it doesn't not mean it is a true reflection of the whole of the UK.
It's not blind ignorance, it is god damn common sense man
 
We may get to a point where actually Rapid chargers are redundant, as most EVs will have so much range most people will never need to refuel anywhere but at their house.
Sorry but that is total twaddle. How many houses can charge at 100-250kW? As battery capacity and range rise home charging will become redundant for main charging IMHO
 
As mentioned, the number of houses in that report was less than 0.01% of the total number of houses in the UK. So even if 60% had some off road parking, it doesn't not mean it is a true reflection of the whole of the UK.
It's not blind ignorance, it is god damn common sense man
Perhaps it is context of where those live who can afford one :)
 
Sorry but that is total twaddle. How many houses can charge at 100-250kW? As battery capacity and range rise home charging will become redundant for main charging IMHO

None, why would need to charge at 100KW at your house when your car is parked there doing nothing for most of the evening/night?

Even 3KW charging overnight is enough to cover most peoples daily usage. At 7KW charging most people will only need to plug in a few times a week.

As range increases why would you waste time charging else where if you can top up at home??

Than there is cost, home charging costs me 8p per kWh, Fastned want €0.59 per kWh for their 350KW chargers. Why would you want to pay over 5 times the cost, and have the inconvenience of going out of your way to charge?
 
We may get to a point where actually Rapid chargers are redundant, as most EVs will have so much range most people will never need to refuel anywhere but at their house.
I’ve repeated the quote since what’s you said here is very different to your response to my comment on it. So much range people will never need to refuel at home. I feel the need to repeat that is total twaddle. These drives through the night aren’t to your house or anybody else’s where you can charge at residential rates (99.9999% of the time).

The fact is that when ICE vehicles are gone, the infrastructure etc fuel them will be outside of houses as it is now. You don’t have a fuel pump in tour front yard so your fuel is cheaper and once the non ICe vehicles are the only things around the fuelling infrastructure will look pretty much as it is now IMO.

My EV doesn’t exist yet - a Skoda Superb EV for less than luxury car tax here - about £36,000. When it is I won’t fit a charger at home - to think that once we have EVs and a few fuel cell cars you will be paying what you do now for electricity to charge a car at home is naive (not being rude - the way politicians and businesses behave is pretty set over history). Nobody is in it so you can run a car for almost nothing in the long term.

Chargers will be numerous and cost whatever the market will sustain - same as petrol and diesel now. Sure many can avoid the public cost of fuel for their daily life but your statement that massive ranges will mean all charging is at home is honing the whole issue down to something that is simply incorrect.
 
My EV doesn’t exist yet - a Skoda Superb EV for less than luxury car tax here - about £36,000. When it is I won’t fit a charger at home

I hope an EV that you want will appear sooner than you think, a base Model 3 is now just a touch more than £36k, and VAG have promised to beat Tesla on price.

As for home charging am glad you feel so strong on this issue, I simply speak from experience of owning various EV for nearly 5 years.

If you wish to charge your future EV on a public charging network rather than at home that is great. We can simply agree to disagree :).
 
Its called data sampling, its the basis of virtually all modern scientific, medical, and epidemiological research.

Sampling (statistics) - Wikipedia
Ok. I have just checked and the houses in this area have no off road parking. On that basis, with my data sampling, 100% of people have no access to off street parking, making the EV, with today's infrastructure, redundant. You wasted a lot of money on that Model X of yours.
Screenshot_20190718-094818_Maps.jpg

Do you now understand how ridiculously inaccurate that article was?
I understand how data sampling works, but it is never has been, nor ever will be, an accurate measurement, nor a true representation, especially when the sampling data is less than 0.01% of whatever the statistics are for
 
Or let's put it this way. You get on a plane. Out of the 100,000 parts on said plane, only 10 had been tested, and all had past. Now, knowing that the test pass rate is 100%, even though only 10 parts have been tested, and 99,990 haven't, would you still feel 100% comfortable flying on said plane?
No, you wouldn't.
 
Ok. I have just checked and the houses in this area have no off road parking. On that basis, with my data sampling, 100% of people have no access to off street parking, making the EV, with today's infrastructure, redundant. You wasted a lot of money on that Model X of yours.
View attachment 1174176
Do you now understand how ridiculously inaccurate that article was?
I understand how data sampling works, but it is never has been, nor ever will be, an accurate measurement, nor a true representation, especially when the sampling data is less than 0.01% of whatever the statistics are for
Put the question differently. How many people without off-road parking would be able to afford a Tesla X? Perhaps there is a context to it?
 
None, why would need to charge at 100KW at your house when your car is parked there doing nothing for most of the evening/night?

If you get home at 6:00pm and leave at 8:00am that's 14 hrs of charging at say 7kW that's 98kW. So you can currently comfortably charge a Tesla X 100. What happens when capacity goes up as it inevitably will, I assume?

For most people planning a big trip they would obviously plan it so they didn't need to do a full charge the night before, but that would assume they don't do high mileages for work.
 
Put the question differently. How many people without off-road parking would be able to afford a Tesla X? Perhaps there is a context to it?
Again, depends on the location. The city of London? Probably everybody. Most will likely have off street parking, but plenty of places that do not
 
Again, depends on the location. The city of London? Probably everybody. Most will likely have off street parking, but plenty of places that do not
Possibly. My flat in London had valet parking in the underground garage :) When you go into Mayfair most of the parking garage have their super cars under cover, and rows and rows of electric charging points now.
 
If you get home at 6:00pm and leave at 8:00am that's 14 hrs of charging at say 7kW that's 98kW. So you can currently comfortably charge a Tesla X 100. What happens when capacity goes up as it inevitably will, I assume?

For most people planning a big trip they would obviously plan it so they didn't need to do a full charge the night before, but that would assume they don't do high mileages for work.
Perhaps a good opportunity to get three phase in residential properties. I foresee that it will become more standard over the coming years and add some value to larger and luxury homes especially.
 
Ok, so what about average Joe. You know, the one that lives in a flat or terrace house on a good day. Can't park anywhere near there home.
Charging in my town is, well, not great at all. Some charging points in pay car parks. A couple of free slow charging points. Some on street charging in lamp posts with some very bizarre restrictions and cost. What is a smart cable?
Now, the second hand EV's mostly available are either the Renault Zoe, cheap but has a battery lease. No thanks.
Nissan leaf that's start locally to me at 10k for a 13 plate. Lucky if you get a 100 mile range, and at 6 years old probably nearing the end of its battery life. No thanks.
Then you have the i3 and golf, low range.
Then a few of the others that are way over average Joe's budget.
I probably be ok with a low range EV, I probably could charge it at home, just about.
But just the crazy charging infrastructure in my town alone is a turn off for me.
Maybe in a few years time.
 
There's no hurry :thumbsup:
 
I don't know how the research was done to arrive at the 88% figure used in the linked article, but it seems likely that it was done (more or less) properly and that the samples used were a representative cross-section of the country as a whole. One can always take a google aerial snapshot of a particular specific area (such as, where one lives) and arrive at a conclusion that relates solely to that area. I could take a similar picture of the area where I live and show you virtually zero properties without driveways (and, no, it's not a "posh" area).

I have no basis on which to judge the national picture beyond what I see in articles such as the linked one and I prefer to believe that, nationally, the quoted statistics are probably fairly representative. In which case average joe does, in all probability, have a driveway and/or garage.

If you don't, then it makes you one of just 12% in a similar position.
 
If you get home at 6:00pm and leave at 8:00am that's 14 hrs of charging at say 7kW that's 98kW. So you can currently comfortably charge a Tesla X 100. What happens when capacity goes up as it inevitably will, I assume?

For most people planning a big trip they would obviously plan it so they didn't need to do a full charge the night before, but that would assume they don't do high mileages for work.

I can count on one hand the number of times arrived home with less than 10% charge since getting an EV. Equally most days I don't charge our car beyond 80%.

100kWh of electricity added overnight give you 300 miles of range in a large EV like ours or near 400 miles in a smaller EV.

How many people actually drive 300 miles in one day and than another 300 miles the next day consistently?

Surely you must plug in your Leaf every night regardless of charge because its so easy? For 5 seconds of effort and than having a 'full' tank the next day its so much easier than driving to a petrol station to refuel.

If someone offered to deliver petrol to your house and refuel your petrol car at home overnight for less cost than visiting a petrol station would you not take them up on that offer??

If you have the ability to charge your EV at home, to refuse to do so and than rely on public rapid charging just seems nuts. You don't even need to spend any money on an EV charger, I charged our EV using a 3 pin plug overnight for 6 months in our current house whilst waiting for a charger to be fitted.
 
If you have the ability to charge your EV at home, to refuse to do so and than rely on public rapid charging just seems nuts.
Of course. What we are challenging is that when longer ranges and bigger batteries come along rapid chargers will become redundant.
 
I don't know how the research was done to arrive at the 88% figure used in the linked article, but it seems likely that it was done (more or less) properly and that the samples used were a representative cross-section of the country as a whole. One can always take a google aerial snapshot of a particular specific area (such as, where one lives) and arrive at a conclusion that relates solely to that area. I could take a similar picture of the area where I live and show you virtually zero properties without driveways (and, no, it's not a "posh" area).

I have no basis on which to judge the national picture beyond what I see in articles such as the linked one and I prefer to believe that, nationally, the quoted statistics are probably fairly representative. In which case average joe does, in all probability, have a driveway and/or garage.

If you don't, then it makes you one of just 12% in a similar position.
This would make sense, if the data was not from less than 0.01% of the total housing market. If the figure was 10%, and they actually published exactly where the data was gathered, then it maybe more believable.
As for the screenshot, that is not where I live. It was a random area in manchester. If you pick a random area in any big town or city, where most people live, you will probably find the majority do not have off street parking
 
100kWh of electricity added overnight give you 300 miles of range in a large EV like ours or near 400 miles in a smaller EV.
Can you point me to these smaller EVs (particular non tesla models) that have a 400 mile range?
 
Ok, so what about average Joe. You know, the one that lives in a flat or terrace house on a good day. Can't park anywhere near there home.
Charging in my town is, well, not great at all. Some charging points in pay car parks. A couple of free slow charging points. Some on street charging in lamp posts with some very bizarre restrictions and cost. What is a smart cable?
Now, the second hand EV's mostly available are either the Renault Zoe, cheap but has a battery lease. No thanks.
Nissan leaf that's start locally to me at 10k for a 13 plate. Lucky if you get a 100 mile range, and at 6 years old probably nearing the end of its battery life. No thanks.
Then you have the i3 and golf, low range.
Then a few of the others that are way over average Joe's budget.
I probably be ok with a low range EV, I probably could charge it at home, just about.
But just the crazy charging infrastructure in my town alone is a turn off for me.
Maybe in a few years time.
Under £20k for a brand new, non battery lease Zoe is what I have been offered.
The problem is, it is a Renault. So the build quality is rubbish, the interior is all plastic, and I wouldn't trust it to manage 100k miles.
At the same time I could have got a Skoda Octavia for £13k. A spare £7k for fuel. And the build quality is better. And after 3 years, I can take it to any garage for servicing, repair etc. Something not possible with an EV
 

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