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NEWS: Electric cars to get a much needed boost

Delvey

Distinguished Member
Ploughs extra £37 million into charging, yet gets rid of the Plug In Hybrid grant and reduces the EV grant by £1000.
No point in having a charging network if there are no cars to use said network.
 

LV426

Administrator
Staff member
..and (IMO) this network won't have a huge effect on peoples' vehicle choices, if the power costs going on three times a decent domestic tariff - which is
- typical of many UK rapid networks
- daylight robbery
- enough to bring the fuel cost of an EV close to that of an efficient model ICE.

Whereas, in Norway - country that really means it.........
 

Delvey

Distinguished Member
..and (IMO) this network won't have a huge effect on peoples' vehicle choices, if the power costs going on three times a decent domestic tariff - which is
- typical of many UK rapid networks
- daylight robbery
- enough to bring the fuel cost of an EV close to that of an efficient model ICE.

Whereas, in Norway - country that really means it.........
Completely agree. The nearest fast charge points to me cost 35p/kWh. That is 7 times the amount octopus charge on their new night rate tariff for EV.
120 miles would cost £11.50 on the Zoe (depending on speed, weather etc).
A petrol hybrid would get a similar range, and would take 5 minutes to refuel.
 

Delvey

Distinguished Member
Who can afford to do this thanks to their largest export - petroleum ;)

17% of GDP.

Cheers,

Nigel
Well that is not the whole story is it. The UK has previously been a net exporter of oil and gas, and will be an exporter of oil soon.
The difference is that Norway pretty much kept the oil and gas fields under its own ownership, and created a fund from it to invest in
The fund
It could essentially give everyone in Norway 200,00 USD if it sold all its assets.
Do not forget the average income tax rate in Norway is 40%, and cost of living is generally higher.

People like to compare the UK to Norway, but they are two very different countries. One has invested in itself significantly, whilst the other has not:D

They also have cheaper tolls on the motorways for EVs,for example a 166km/100 mile Journey from Oslo to Lillehammer hits you with £8 each way in a diesel, whilst an EV is less than £1.
 
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nheather

Distinguished Member
Well that is not the whole story is it. The UK has previously been a net exporter of oil and gas, and will be an exporter of oil soon.
The difference is that Norway pretty much kept the oil and gas fields under its own ownership, and created a fund from it to invest in
The fund
It could essentially give everyone in Norway 200,00 USD if it sold all its assets.
Do not forget the average income tax rate in Norway is 40%, and cost of living is generally higher.

People like to compare the UK to Norway, but they are two very different countries. One has invested in itself significantly, whilst the other has not:D

They also have cheaper tolls on the motorways for EVs,for example a 166km/100 mile Journey from Oslo to Lillehammer hits you with £8 each way in a diesel, whilst an EV is less than £1.
I was really just joking about the irony that it can afford its green initiatives through the sale of fossil fuels to other countries.

Cheers,

Nigel
 

Munkey Boy

Distinguished Member
Clearly the charging infrastructure is important for long distance journeys, but I think I've charged external to my house approximately 3 times in the 9 months I've had my EV (2017 e-Golf). It didn't even cross my mind to check out the tariffs beforehand so cheap is filling the car up though (~£3).

It's a nice touch that GMEV (Greater Manchester) charging points are free to use, though they are slow at 7KWh.
 

Delvey

Distinguished Member
Clearly the charging infrastructure is important for long distance journeys
I would disagree. If you are driving for 3 hours, a quick 45 minute charge is probably a welcome break.
It is those who cannot charge at home the charging infrastructure is important for. I do not own an EV now, as I cannot charge it at home. Like many others.
 
I would disagree. If you are driving for 3 hours, a quick 45 minute charge is probably a welcome break.
It is those who cannot charge at home the charging infrastructure is important for. I do not own an EV now, as I cannot charge it at home. Like many others.
Just shows we are all different. At home charging is no issue for me, we could accommodate 7 cars without making any changes. What we are used to do is drive down to the south of Europe, normally set off around 9pm, drive each for 2 hours and literallly leave the engine running whilst we swap. Having to have a mandatory pause for 45 would mean that the children wake up. Exactly the thing we want to avoid.

With my parents we did the same thing when growing up.
 

Munkey Boy

Distinguished Member
I would disagree. If you are driving for 3 hours, a quick 45 minute charge is probably a welcome break.
It is those who cannot charge at home the charging infrastructure is important for. I do not own an EV now, as I cannot charge it at home. Like many others.
Sorry, you're quite right. I'd not even considered that there would be EV owners who couldn't charge at home. It's a problem they need to solve (I like the idea of putting charge points in all lamp posts from now on).
 

The Dreamer

Distinguished Member
Just shows we are all different. At home charging is no issue for me, we could accommodate 7 cars without making any changes. What we are used to do is drive down to the south of Europe, normally set off around 9pm, drive each for 2 hours and literallly leave the engine running whilst we swap. Having to have a mandatory pause for 45 would mean that the children wake up. Exactly the thing we want to avoid.

With my parents we did the same thing when growing up.
Is the motorail from Calais still running?

We used to catch that down to Milan, overnight with the cars on transporters behind - a massive long train, with loads of carriages of couchettes and load of trucks carrying the cars - pulled by two or three engines.

Always a big adventure for us kids - especially on the way back once, when my younger brother, climbing into the top bunk, accidentally pulled the alarm cord!

This massive train screeched to an impressive halt in pretty short order. The guard, worked his way through the carriages looking for the pulled alarm cord until he reached the last carriage, where my brother was in tears. He looked down at my brother, and mum, who was comforting him, shrugged his shoulders and said in a heavily accented English, 'French train, Italian railway, too much paperwork!' - wound the cord back into it's hole and off we went again! My brother has dined out on that story for years now!:D
 

Delvey

Distinguished Member
Is the motorail from Calais still running?

We used to catch that down to Milan, overnight with the cars on transporters behind - a massive long train, with loads of carriages of couchettes and load of trucks carrying the cars - pulled by two or three engines.

Always a big adventure for us kids - especially on the way back once, when my younger brother, climbing into the top bunk, accidentally pulled the alarm cord!

This massive train screeched to an impressive halt in pretty short order. The guard, worked his way through the carriages looking for the pulled alarm cord until he reached the last carriage, where my brother was in tears. He looked down at my brother, and mum, who was comforting him, shrugged his shoulders and said in a heavily accented English, 'French train, Italian railway, too much paperwork!' - wound the cord back into it's hole and off we went again! My brother has dined out on that story for years now!:D
Seems so, but not from Calais to Italy
Guide to Motorail trains in Europe | Taking your car by train
 

nheather

Distinguished Member
Just shows we are all different. At home charging is no issue for me, we could accommodate 7 cars without making any changes. What we are used to do is drive down to the south of Europe, normally set off around 9pm, drive each for 2 hours and literallly leave the engine running whilst we swap. Having to have a mandatory pause for 45 would mean that the children wake up. Exactly the thing we want to avoid.

With my parents we did the same thing when growing up.
Probably about a year back I saw a video article about a young man who really wanted to embrace EV technology but hadn’t been able to do so for until recently because he lives in flats. He had finally be able to get an EV but only because his employer had installed some charging points. But he said that his reliance on charging at work made him very reluctant to use it at the weekends in case he was left with insufficient charge to get to work on Monday morning.

The article also went on to discuss the problems with suburbs with no off road parking. The problem is not as simple as “can I run a lead over the pavement” but needs to recognise that these places are usually park wherever you can so often not outside your house or even close.

It did also discuss the lamp post idea but warned that it was slow process, councils don’t really have the money to invest, that the technology being considered suitable was only low-powered, so slow and of course you have to find a vacant lamp post - there was also a suggestion that the tariffs would be expensive so questioned how extensively they would be used.

Cheers,

Nigel
 

dakang

Novice Member
Nice article but a little inaccurate I'm afraid.

It ends by saying we need cars that charge at rate > 100kW. Well Tesla's Model 3 charges at up to 250kW already (a charge rate of 1000miles per hour with the latest chargers). The current gen Model S&X do 150kW , soon to be upgraded to 250kW.

Also the Supercharger network is strangely absent from the article, it covers most of the UK already... We've been from Dorset to Inverness (not same trip!) and it's been perfectly fine.

Thought I'd add the above to ensure everyone getting a fuller picture ;-)
 

IronGiant

Moderator
We know all about Teslas and their Supercharger network as we have a few enthusiasts on here, but thanks for the reminder :thumbsup:
 
Nice article but a little inaccurate I'm afraid.

It ends by saying we need cars that charge at rate > 100kW. Well Tesla's Model 3 charges at up to 250kW already (a charge rate of 1000miles per hour with the latest chargers). The current gen Model S&X do 150kW , soon to be upgraded to 250kW.

Also the Supercharger network is strangely absent from the article, it covers most of the UK already... We've been from Dorset to Inverness (not same trip!) and it's been perfectly fine.

Thought I'd add the above to ensure everyone getting a fuller picture ;-)
Not everyone likes a Tesla ;) I, we, really tried to like them, but find it too cramped unless it’s an X, but find that one too ugly. The interior in my opinion is worth about 1/4 of the list price. And the list price is way too expensive. In my opinion the only thing they’ve got going for themselves are the super chargers, but even then realistically anyone would only need that when they exceed the range daily. So that is when one does say in excess of 70K miles per annum. Very few people require that regularly....

In my opinion.
 

Delvey

Distinguished Member
Not everyone likes a Tesla ;) I, we, really tried to like them, but find it too cramped unless it’s an X, but find that one too ugly. The interior in my opinion is worth about 1/4 of the list price. And the list price is way too expensive.
Woaaaaaahh a certain member will take offence to that, as he compares his X to a top line Merc:D
 

domtheone

Distinguished Member
People like to compare the UK to Norway, but they are two very different countries. One has invested in itself significantly, whilst the other has not:D
Sums it up really.

Also, Norway has circa 5 million people. Of those, what %%% need a handout/state aid.

The UK has circa 70 million. Tens of millions need a handout/state aid.

This is why we cannot/choose not to invest in ourselves.:D

To get back on topic:blush:. Would defo consider an Electric car but the price of them is ridiculous (imo) at the moment.

Once the gross price of the car (not just net after running costs etc) can compete or be lower than petrol/diesel, they'll sell a few more.
 

nheather

Distinguished Member
Nice article but a little inaccurate I'm afraid.

It ends by saying we need cars that charge at rate > 100kW. Well Tesla's Model 3 charges at up to 250kW already (a charge rate of 1000miles per hour with the latest chargers). The current gen Model S&X do 150kW , soon to be upgraded to 250kW.

Also the Supercharger network is strangely absent from the article, it covers most of the UK already... We've been from Dorset to Inverness (not same trip!) and it's been perfectly fine.

Thought I'd add the above to ensure everyone getting a fuller picture ;-)
One of the problems currently, and I admit that it will get better over time, is that the single counter to any argument against EVs is ‘Tesla’.

That’s fine but the Tesla is out of the price range for most.

Some could argue that there is danger of a class divide in EVs for a good number of years to come. Think about two of the fundamental requirements of a car owner, “I want to be about to fill my car in X minutes” and “I want to be able to drive Y miles between refills”.

Now with fossil cars, those requirements can be satisfied for everyone at all price ranges. Sure richer people can afford, newer, more luxurious, more performance but the fundamentals are in reach of everyone.

Not so for EVs, not now and not for sometime. To get meet those fundamental requirements you have to pay more. We need to get to the point where you can buy a second hand EV capable of fast charging and decent range for a few thousand - how many years is that away - ten or more I would guess.

Cheers,

Nigel
 

IronGiant

Moderator
One of the problems currently, and I admit that it will get better over time, is that the single counter to any argument against EVs is ‘Tesla’.
Who? :laugh:
 

IronGiant

Moderator
Teslas are a niche product for people can afford them. They are justifiable if you do huge miles or have deep pockets.

Just read some of Presstogs threads where he easily runs lesser cars for free, as in zero cost at all.
 

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