NEWS: Denon, Marantz and Yamaha AV receivers hit by HDMI 2.1 bug

Livemo

Active Member
Recently bought the yamaha RX V6. It has bugs what I'm sure will be fixed via firmware. But if its hardware related to 4k @ 120 then I hope for a replacement
 

whitehart

Well-known Member
hmm cant imagine either yamaha or denon doing a hardware recall etc - too costy at this point, i suspect a "bug" is software driven so should be fixed with software. not that im convinced from this "test"
 

originalbadboy

Active Member
Everyone is losing their heads over this at the moment, but until we get an official response from manufacturers as to whether this is a hardware fault or not there isn't anything we can do.

It definitely not great considering I've just got my XH90 and RX-V6A sorted out. Personally I'm not that bothered about 4k 120 gaming myself, so from that point of view it isn't an issue. However if this is an unfixable hardware fault, then the only option will be a recall or a system board change.
 

Rubinstein

Novice Member
I have the Denon 3700h with a Sony KD48A9 tv and I’m having drop out issues even without running at 4k & 120. I have a ps4 and Apple TV connect to the amp and both will drop out video and audio signals randomly resulting in a blank screen. I’ve been told by my dealer there is an update from denon in the pipeline that will hopefully sort this out. In the meantime I have found that switching off the EARC function in the a9 stops the drop out on both sources
 

golden phoenix

Distinguished Member
hmm cant imagine either yamaha or denon doing a hardware recall etc - too costy at this point, i suspect a "bug" is software driven so should be fixed with software. not that im convinced from this "test"
Regardless of it being costly for them, doesn't really matter, currently their advertised machines doesn't do what it says on the tin...therefore they can't sell it advertising this feature. I think for most people like me who has not long bought and set up a 7015...the though of having to send it anywhere, after setting it all up the way I like it would be a real ball ache...although I dont need 4k 120 htz now that was a selling point for me down the line. I cant believe they've let this happen. Companies not speaking to each other and testing variants to implementations again. And again its the consumer that loses out. Marantz already got it wrong offering 1 in 2 out hdmi 2.1, instead of at least 2 in 1 out!!!
 

Rubinstein

Novice Member
I returned the first 3700h I had because of a fault using Apple TV. I had no video when selecting the source, I turned off the amp to check my hdmi cables and the picture came back on the tv, turn the amp back on, lost picture, bonkers. So with with amp turned off it was somehow passing Video to the tv
 

johny1980

Well-known Member
Glad i just went for the Denon 4500 (at a very good price) and earc directly to the TV

Paired with a C9 everything auto switches anyway
 

HD2k15

Well-known Member
The Denon 2020 receivers also have a bug with eArc.

I am having issues using eArc and a games console via eArc and sound mode selection. Not using bitstream, but LPCM.

It only happens when the source is eARC (ie internal apps from the TV when eARC is enabled or using a games console via eArc). The Denon app shows Multi-channel PCM input, however, the output options are not the same when receiving multi-channel PCM from an input directly connected to the receiver.




When using eArc on my TV connected to the Denon, the denon receives multichannel PCM input from the TV, but when I go to select a sound mode on the receiver, I only have a choice of multichannel stereo, stereo or DSur.

Why will it not let me select a sound mode like Multichannel PCM? It should let me output the same format as what the receiver is receiving? Like Input-Multichannel PCM Output-Multichannel PCM.
There is a clearly a bug with this receiver, that will not let me output Multichannel PCM as a sound mode over eArc.
Input (eARC multi channel PCM):





Output (choices are Stereo, DSur, Multi Ch Stereo):




Can test this to see if they have been able to get Multichannel PCM sound mode output? Rather than Stereo, DSur, Multichannel stereo?

I am sure this is a bug with the latest receivers?
 

Desk

Well-known Member
I currently have an X3700H and accompanying 5.1 speaker set-up on order, rapidly approaching the end of my two-week cancellation period.

I can't see how I can go ahead with this order if this fault exists in the Denon, and if I'm not hearing of any proposed means of addressing this which I consider satisfactory.

The difficulty is that this then leaves me without any speaker set-up, and potentially for the best part of the next year until the next generation of AVRs with fully working 2.1 are available.

It's a damnable situation.

Desk
 

Adziadam

Active Member
I have an x2600h and bought the 3700. I've had the 3700 for a few days I'm sending it back I will stick with the x2600 until this dilemma gets resolved I don't want to invest in something that is unknown what the fix is especially when I will give up my return rights.
 

Rubinstein

Novice Member
My supplier has been told by there Denon rep this bug affects all the avrs in the 700 range and that there is a software fix is due October ish. Hope this is not BS, as I installed the tv and amp at the same time it took a while to track the fault to the amp which was really frustrating and time consuming as I had issues the the tv at the same time. For me switching off the earc on the tv is a good workout as a temporary measure,
 

Desk

Well-known Member
Looks like a two year wait could be a possibility according to this.
Broken HDMI 2.1: Next Gen Gaming Confounds Denon Marantz & Yamaha
I tend to view these videos with a degree of scepticism - they regurgitate information while tending to lean on the side of alarmist.

What I have read does suggest that this can't be fixed via firmware, and that indeed the supplier to Denon/Marantz and Yamaha may need to create a new chipset to solve this - something that wouldn't be immediate.

Question is what do these companies do in the meantime? Continue to market products with a borked feature which is a very distinct selling point and with no prospect of when and how it will be fixed?

Only thing I could see they could do is reclassify these existing products as not having this feature and market and sell them on that basis. Don't know what they do for those people who have already bought them, other than offer a refund or money off.

Either that or keep selling them with a promise to either fix all these AVRs or replace them next year with new equivalent versions that work properly (would be my preference, especially if you're having to live for the better part of a year without this feature).

Desk
 
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Adziadam

Active Member
I spoke to the company I bought the AV off its only a week old they agreed that I can return the receiver back so off it goes. I'm lucky I didn't sell my existing receiver but I feel sorry for people that just set up a brand new system only to get disappointed.
 

Barney Gumble

Active Member
Everyone is losing their heads over this at the moment, but until we get an official response from manufacturers as to whether this is a hardware fault or not there isn't anything we can do.

It definitely not great considering I've just got my XH90 and RX-V6A sorted out. Personally I'm not that bothered about 4k 120 gaming myself, so from that point of view it isn't an issue. However if this is an unfixable hardware fault, then the only option will be a recall or a system board change.
There is an official response, from Sound United to Forbes;

"In a statement to Forbes, Sound United (Marantz, Denon) acknowledged the issue and added that it will offer a permanent solution at a later date.

- "Some new gaming source devices that support 4K/120Hz output may not work fully with Denon (or Marantz) 8K AVRs. You may discover this incompatibility issue due to a HDMI chipset mismatch between the devices. When the affected system is connected to the AVR via 8K HDMI input and set to output at 4K/120Hz, and the AVR’s 4K Signal Format option is set to “8K Enhanced,” you may not see the system’s source video on their display, and may not hear the system’s source audio processed through the AVR. This problem is only present when a display that supports 4K/120Hz is used," Sound United said in a statement to Forbes."
 

Chinstroke

Active Member
Quite honestly HDMI has been a pain in the proverbial since it was introduced. On my setup at home I get random 2-3 second dropouts every few hours of viewing and then you have the whole, is it the source? is it the cables? is it the AVR? (based on this, wouldn't surprise me). There are just too many potential issues and I wish that a more stable, suitable product was in use.
 

MQJ

Active Member
I tend to view these videos with a degree of scepticism - they regurgitate information while tending to lean on the side of alarmist.

What I have read does suggest that this can't be fixed via firmware, and that indeed the supplier to Denon/Marantz and Yamaha may need to create a new chipset to solve this - something that wouldn't be immediate.

Question is what do these companies do in the meantime? Continue to market products with a borked feature which is a very distinct selling point and with no prospect of when and how it will be fixed?

Only thing I could see they could do is reclassify these existing products as not having this feature and market and sell them on that basis. Don't know what they do for those people who have already bought them, other than offer a refund or money off.

Either that or keep selling them with a promise to either fix all these AVRs or replace them next year with new equivalent versions that work properly (would be my preference).

Desk
The only way that this can be fixed (according to the sources the video cite's) is for the gaming consoles and graphics cards to change the way they output their signal. They are doing it through a decompressed signal and the Panasonic chips in the new Denon, Marantz and Yamaha av receivers can ONLY receive a compressed signal (for 4k 120hz, 4k 60hz is ok). Even upcoming receivers from other brands have this problem because there is only one supplier and it looks like the supplier (Panasonic solutions) have got this wrong. A software fix is not possible on the receiver end. It would have to be hardware and according to "Panasonic solutions" (According to the sources quoted again), they say they wont have a chip for this until 2021, which means 2022 for consumers.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
For how much did you get the 4500 if I may ask?
If you considering X4500H there is few still available for 849£ and it says with code PRODUCT5 i can get £42.45 off from the item. 806,55£ vs. 1399£ (4700H). 🤔

 

originalbadboy

Active Member
The only way that this can be fixed (according to the sources the video cite's) is for the gaming consoles and graphics cards to change the way they output their signal. They are doing it through a decompressed signal and the Panasonic chips in the new Denon, Marantz and Yamaha av receivers can ONLY receive a compressed signal (for 4k 120hz, 4k 60hz is ok). Even upcoming receivers from other brands have this problem because there is only one supplier and it looks like the supplier (Panasonic solutions) have got this wrong. A software fix is not possible on the receiver end. It would have to be hardware and according to "Panasonic solutions" (According to the sources quoted again), they say they wont have a chip for this until 2021, which means 2022 for consumers.
Then Panasonic have got a hefty bill coming their way if that's the case (still an IF until confirmed otherwise)
 

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