NEWS: Denon introduces 8K ready AV Receivers as industry's first

dante01

Distinguished Member
What does it matter where the machine comes?

I'm not bothered where he gets the hardware. You are the one who suggested that he is buying it which is factually incorrect and you suggested that I'd posted something that wasn't correct. What I posted was factual and substantiated by Amir himself.
 

Thatsnotmynaim

Distinguished Member
Many of these issues can be fixed via firmware Amir said. Example Emotiva RMC-1 (5000$) they had missed some things. First they were negative toward Amir/measurements, but then their engineers started to working together with Amir and got the product better after releasing firmware update.
I think what was said was ‘This is a hardware design problem and not fixable with firmware updates and such.’, however at the time I had one of the new Emotivas and it sounded amazing to my ears, what did I know.. Then later, after they fixed the ‘hardware design problem’ with a firmware update :) it sounded equally amazing to my ears?!? How weird hey...
To me using a fancy piece of kit to tell you how good it should sound n’all is great, but my untrained ears tell me different stories so I trust them more for my requirements..
Scientists in white coats should use fancy graphs to tell them how to build kit technically better, but people who listen to AV at home really should just trust their own ears more it’s the only thing that really matters, it’s pretty simple and free to do and it’s not voodoo..
 

Fillius

Active Member
Thing is I appreciate what is being done and it’s great it pushes the manufacturers to do better, but I personally don’t give too much weight to what the graph says in my buying decision. It’s a small consideration, ie I don’t want something fundamentally broke, but it factors in my purchase in the low single digit percentage figures, it certainly wouldn’t influence me 100%, 50% or 25% as if it’s not audible it probably doesn’t really matter that much in the real world.
I probably wouldn’t want to pay more for something technically better if it doesn’t actually make it sound better, it needs to be a balance of gains. Similarly I’d probably pay extra for a ‘Carlos Fandango’ Edition if it sounded better even if the graph was worse on it.
I guess everyone has different priorities, my buying priorities are how it sounds to my ear over what it says on a bit of paper, although I do understand and appreciate the graphs.
The particular graph which caught my attention was the multi-tone one:
Denon AVR-X4700H 8K Home Theater Receiver AVR Dolby Atmos Surround HDMI External Left and Righ...png

-40dB is still well within audible range. Hopefully it doesn't point to anything fundamentally wrong with the new HDMI board.

It could also be the most likely issue to be fixed by a firmware update 🤞. An update which may only happen due to the attention these measurements have drawn.

I'm still looking forward to receiving my X6700 and seeing for myself, but I don't have a point of reference (other than my unmeasured Onkyo RZ730) to know if it doesn't sound as good as it should. Or as good as you would expect for a £2300 device.

I know I should be demoing a few amps before making a purchase like this, but that's not currently an option for me until at least next year. I could have waited until then as I'm in no rush. The only reason I've ordered this is because I've just been far too busy at work recently and thought a little retail therapy was the answer.

In any case, I'm sure the Denon will be a significant upgrade for me, especially Audessey and the ability to tweak the curve with the app.
 

JoeAddick

Novice Member
I won't move to 8k for at least 5, maybe closer to 10, years.
There's a dearth of content for 4k, nevermind 8k.
Christ the majority of the stations in the UK on broadcast TV are still in SD for some reason.

The only benefit, in my opinion, that this might bring now would be the hdmi 2.1 gaming features but I have my consoles directly connected to the telly anyway. Would be useful for some though.
This is my first thought...We're not getting the most from our 4k equipment at the moment, so what's the point of looking into 8k technology.
 

GAmbrose

Well-known Member
Is linking to other sites allowed?

If so this post is worth reading:


Looks like Denon used cheapo $1 DACs (at least for the surround sound inputs) - and possibly for the fronts.

We're waiting to find out if they have AKM DACs anywhere.
 

doug56hl

Distinguished Member
Is linking to other sites allowed?

If so this post is worth reading:


Looks like Denon used cheapo $1 DACs (at least for the surround sound inputs) - and possibly for the fronts.

We're waiting to find out if they have AKM DACs anywhere.
Interesting 'I see TI PCM5100A as the DAC chip'. So much for the Denon claims of using the latest AKM DACs for the new range. If correct*** the S/N of these is TI DACs is 100db vs the 115db in the previous range AKM AK4458 and even worse in comparison to the 120db of the AKM AK4490 in the X8500.
And THD+N of -90db vs -107 and -112 in the older models.

TI PCM5100A

Audio D/A Converters | Audio | PRODUCTS | Asahi Kasei Microdevices (AKM)

Edit: ***Now mention of those DACs being for the network and zone 2/3. So the DACs for Zone 1 HDMI are still unverified/uncertain.
 
Last edited:

Thatsnotmynaim

Distinguished Member
If you read a bit more I think those DACs are probably for other things, different zones etc. Someone said the Denons and others have been doing this for years it's nothing new, i.e. using good DACs for the main functions and lesser DACs for lesser tasks. Still doesn't explain the lower results, but also no one has said how it sounds as far as I can see either. Hopefully it'll get sorted, I can't imagine a company as big as D&M would do something that wrong....
 

mtenga

Distinguished Member
Denon has published a public response regarding the crappy review.

A recent review was brought to the attention of Denon wherein the reviewer contrasted the performance of two Denon products—the Denon AVR-X3600H and the recently announced AVR-X4700H—against one another.

The reviewer offered a variety of bench test results, the subsequent conclusion was not favorable towards the new AVR-X4700H. Denon engineering is currently recreating testing completed by the reviewer in discussion. While there are many unknowns as it pertains to testing criteria, we expect to have our own results available to the public the week of June 29.

Before any Denon product is introduced to the market, it undergoes tens of thousands of tests ensuring the absolute best quality product. Denon unequivocally stands by its standards of excellence and strictly adheres to industry best practices. Denon will be in contact with the reviewer to ensure we’re all operating against a set of standardized conditions to guarantee consistency and clarity moving forward.
 

Thatsnotmynaim

Distinguished Member
Gosh and I thought they just chucked a few bit together and whacked it out the door untested as they don't know what they're doing really, it's a miracle they've lasted this long surely......... ;)
 

mtenga

Distinguished Member
Now where I have read that before...........begins with an.......
First letter of the alphabet per chance :D

On the bright side the rest of us get to read that thread and giggle at the dreadful misfortune of the poor owners. The Germans call it schadenfreude. Try saying that after a few beers and sausages.
 

mtenga

Distinguished Member
Assuming Denon debunk the review, or even if they don’t, I’ve gone for the 4700 to use as a pre-amp. Supposed to be July delivery has anyone got any delivery estimates on theirs?
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Assuming Denon debunk the review, or even if they don’t, I’ve gone for the 4700 to use as a pre-amp. Supposed to be July delivery has anyone got any delivery estimates on theirs?
Point of order Sir. You cannot put the 4700 in your signature if you're not getting it until July. That's just not cricket. :)

Denon do seem to be taken aback with the review, I've not seen this kind of response from them before. Glad I've got a Denon that's not been reviewed, perhaps ignorance is bliss.
 

mtenga

Distinguished Member
Point of order Sir. You cannot put the 4700 in your signature if you're not getting it until July. That's just not cricket. :)

Denon do seem to be taken aback with the review, I've not seen this kind of response from them before. Glad I've got a Denon that's not been reviewed, perhaps ignorance is bliss.
Just glad to get rid of the Yamaha out of my sig: great sound, terrible switching on HDMI. I’m looking forwards and hoping the new toy is delivered July 1st rather than 31st. That would be allowable in terms of sig :)

People are getting these in the States now and no nasties reported so far. You can’t look too much into any single review. I’m glad Denon has chosen to respond and look forward to what they say next week.
 

mtenga

Distinguished Member

zamwessell

Well-known Member
Is there a detailed spec sheet on what exactly all three HDMI out terminals are capable of on the 3700H and above?
 

-Spike-

Well-known Member
Assuming Denon debunk the review, or even if they don’t, I’ve gone for the 4700 to use as a pre-amp. Supposed to be July delivery has anyone got any delivery estimates on theirs?
Just been speaking to Sevenoaks about my order and they expect the 4700 in w/c 13th July.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Just picked up an e-mail from Denon.


DENON LIVE. Join us for a live session on YouTube where we will discuss our new range of Denon products and answer any of your related questions. With live guests, we will talk about the latest developments within the market and get into hot discussions around home audio. The talk will go live at 17:00 (BST) on the 8th July 2020 and will run for around 90 minutes.

In this episode of DENON LIVE we will be discussing the below topics:

  • Home Cinema
  • AV Receivers and the outlook for new HDMI specifications
  • You ask - We answer

If you already have some questions, you can post them in the chat section of the video. We will then answer them during the live session.

We look forward to seeing you there.
 

Triggaaar

Distinguished Member
I've just upgraded from a Denon X6200 which had AL24 to the X6500 which has AL32 onboard. There is a difference, the X6500 sounds a lot smoother with a better balance to the surrounds. I am also very impressed with AL32+ that is on my Denon SACD player.
Hi gibbsy. Do you happen to know what the X6500 offered over the X6400? Thanks
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Hi gibbsy. Do you happen to know what the X6500 offered over the X6400? Thanks
I came from a 6200 to the 6500 and there was a significant difference between these two units the biggest being AL32 over AL24 which has made a difference. Between the 6400 and the 6500 I think it's what's been dropped rather than added. No FM radio and some legacy connections. The inclusion of Alexa may make a difference to some, not something I would want or worry about.

Audio wise I really can't say, it's unlikely to be as great as the difference between the 6200.
 

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