NEWS: Denon and Marantz issue hardware fix for AVR 4K/120 and 8K issue

Yeah, that is a choice word ... but in the second pdf they state 8k60 which can't be done without compression which seems to be the thing that is breaking xbox connectivity. At the end of the day they have openly admitted the equipment is faulty so establishing the Amp is broken isn't an issue, it's whether the solution is an acceptable fix. Personally, if that little box fixes everything without decompressing or decompressing/recompressing the stream and adds next to no latency then it seems like a reasonable workaround. For some people this will not be an acceptable workaround and they will actually want their faulty Amplifier repairing.

rOb

Can the be repaired yet? Or only when new chips are available? Would a repair still be available to people who chose to take a box solution?

Again, just thinking out loud! 😁
 
Had a call back from RS today.

They've agreed a full refund or exchange any time in the 1st year of purchase.

Great news for me as it gives me breathing space to pick something fault free or hopefully switch to a revised unit later in the year.

Any suggestions on what I could look at?

I'm currently running pre-out to a Devialet Expert 200 for music and LR.
 
LG list HDMI 2.1 on their latest TV’s
Well they technically shouldn't. HDMI org allow manufacturers to state the HDMI feature, but not the actual HDMI version. You never see the version on a product and you ordinarilly never see mention of it in the manual or within the specifications.

After saying this, cables aren't categorised by HDMI versions and HDMI org have a trademark that prevents manufacturers stating a cable as being anything to do with an HDMI version.Many manufacturers ignore this.


Anyway, what LG do is nether here nor there. Denon and Marantz do not specifically state what version of HDMI is used onboard any of their products. THe do imply that their 2020 models include it here:


but they do not make mention of specific models.

They are free to list the actual features that HDMI version 2.1 would bring, but not actually state HDMI version 2.1 itself as being a feature.



Another thing worth noting is that Sound UNited have suggest the entire issue to be a fault with the output of the XBox. THey categorically state that the adaptor "corrects" this. I'd summise that this is a legal department decision aimed at covering their backs?
 
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Well they technically shouldn't. HDMI org allow manufacturers to state the HDMI feature, but not the actual HDMI version. You never see the version on a product and you ordinarilly never see mention of it in the manual or within the specifications.

After saying this, cables aren't categorised by HDMI versions and HDMI org have a trademark that prevents manufacturers stating a cable as being anything to do with an HDMI version.Many manufacturers ignore this.


Anyway, what LG do is nether here nor there. Denon and Marantz do not specifically state what version of HDMI is used onboard any of their products. THe do imply that their 2020 models include it here:


but they do not make mention of specific models.

They are free to list the actual features that HDMI version 2.1 would bring, but not actually state HDMI version 2.1 itself as being a feature.



Another thing worth noting is that Sound UNited have suggest the entire issue to be a fault with the output of the XBox. THey categorically state that the adaptor "corrects" this. I'd summise that this is a legal department decision aimed at covering their backs?
It doesn't just affect the Xbox
 
Note: We reiterate that this solution works only with the models listed below that are having problems working with Xbox gaming systems at 4k/120Hz and that consumers with other models should NOT order the SPK618. You will NOT need this device unless you are planning on running the latest XBox gaming system at 4k/120Hz through your AV receiver.




Also note the following Sound United atatement from December of last year that is also quoted within the above article:
Sound United completed additional testing and is pleased to report that 4K/120Hz passthrough works without issue on Nvidia and PS5 devices. Outside of what was originally reported regarding Xbox at 4K/120Hz output setting, we have had no further HDMI 2.1 device interoperability issues reported as of this writing.
 
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Well they technically shouldn't. HDMI org allow manufacturers to state the HDMI feature, but not the actual HDMI version. You never see the version on a product and you ordinarilly never see mention of it in the manual or within the specifications.

After saying this, cables aren't categorised by HDMI versions and HDMI org have a trademark that prevents manufacturers stating a cable as being anything to do with an HDMI version.Many manufacturers ignore this.


Anyway, what LG do is nether here nor there. Denon and Marantz do not specifically state what version of HDMI is used onboard any of their products. THe do imply that their 2020 models include it here:


but they do not make mention of specific models.

They are free to list the actual features that HDMI version 2.1 would bring, but not actually state HDMI version 2.1 itself as being a feature.


Another thing worth noting is that Sound UNited have suggest the entire issue to be a fault with the output of the XBox. THey categorically state that the adaptor "corrects" this. I'd summise that this is a legal department decision aimed at covering their backs?

Hdmi.org does let you state the version as long as you are stating the feature at the same time.

Mr wolf linked to the page in post 117 and it's under can I use hdmi 2.1 in my marketing :thumbsup:

I agree that Sound United legal dept probably having a say on what was announced though :D
 
Had a call back from RS today.

They've agreed a full refund or exchange any time in the 1st year of purchase.

Great news for me as it gives me breathing space to pick something fault free or hopefully switch to a revised unit later in the year.

Any suggestions on what I could look at?

I'm currently running pre-out to a Devialet Expert 200 for music and LR.

That's great news, would like it in writing!

I also got mine from RS.

When is the 2800 out? 😄
 
Will see what Peter Tyson say, that’s where I got mine
 
Will see what Peter Tyson say, that’s where I got mine

Can you update me on what they say? I’ve been waiting for the first of Yamaha’s firmware updates enabling 2.1 features which was due by end of April. So have been putting it off.
 
I haven't see this stated much, but this is not really a fix since the adapter only offers one input. I would expect the receivers to accept more than one 2.1 input and this is only "fixing" it for one device.
 
I haven't see this stated much, but this is not really a fix since the adapter only offers one input. I would expect the receivers to accept more than one 2.1 input and this is only "fixing" it for one device.

The Denon’s only have one HDMI 2.1 input
 
Can you update me on what they say? I’ve been waiting for the first of Yamaha’s firmware updates enabling 2.1 features which was due by end of April. So have been putting it off.

Of course - I’ll email them on Tuesday and report back what they say
 
I haven't see this stated much, but this is not really a fix since the adapter only offers one input. I would expect the receivers to accept more than one 2.1 input and this is only "fixing" it for one device.
The effected Denon and Marantz AV receivers only have one 8K 60Hz and 4K 120Hz compliant input. Why would they give you more on the adaptor?
 
Reading some of the replies on this thread, you can tell there are many that are just using it as an excuse to get a newer model.
 
I haven't see this stated much, but this is not really a fix since the adapter only offers one input. I would expect the receivers to accept more than one 2.1 input and this is only "fixing" it for one device.
you will find(whether like it or not) sound united actually suggest to plug hdmi 2.1 sources direct to TV...to only use inout on the AVR if run out of inputs on the TV...

how many hdmi 2.1 source do you have ? there is only one device causing the issue at the preset the xbox ...
 
Its sad. Looks like this generation of buyers simply got shafted with weird workaround solutions. Next year, everything should be more simple with a more standardised, hopefully cheaper HDMI 2.1 solution which is seemless and has more ports (I need 2 HDMI 2.1 ports, one for PS5, one for HTPC).

LG TVs lack DTS so relying on EARC is not going to work for DTS content.
Sony are promising at some point some HDMI 2.1 support.

Really sucks.



D&M should have offered:
1. Box
OR
2. Send in the amp for an upgrade.
 
Reading some of the replies on this thread, you can tell there are many that are just using it as an excuse to get a newer model.
That could be true but the fact remains that if there wasn't an issue they wouldn't have a case to return the existing model.
 
Reading some of the replies on this thread, you can tell there are many that are just using it as an excuse to get a newer model.

I have zero interest in having to rewire my amp, I also have zero interest in adding a new box that uses power and also potentially adds latency or loss of picture quality.
 
Reading some of the replies on this thread, you can tell there are many that are just using it as an excuse to get a newer model.
"I can't believe people want their AVRs to work as advertised !"

throttle.jpg
 
After ploughing through the 148 posts all I can add is below...
... oh, and regardless of my opinions being right/wrong, I have questions at the end.


As a Chartered IT Engineer, not to be held accountable for the vagaries of the necessarily compromising AV design world, I find the HDMI 2.1 Specification very poor. I’d already read this before commencing this thread and it basically allows for implementations to use compressed and/or uncompressed data streams. So, the Panasonic chip adheres to the spec as it uses compressed.

The problem with Denon and the other mentioned AVCs is that, by using the only HDMI 2.1 available chip at the time means they cannot use 4K/120Hz or 8K/60Hz if the data is uncompressed. It‘s not the Xbox at fault either, as they chose to pass uncompressed data streams out.

So, if the specification is poor, even at fault, can the HDMI ‘consortium‘ be held to account - probably not as not for profit and not a company. The phrase used to explain the issues seen by end users is “device mismatch”, perhaps this now high profile issue will lead to more care with the HDMI standards. The issue with any specification is that they are not tested, just approved by the those that releases it. I‘d guess the next HDMI specification release might say that uncompressed data is only for use in the sink device, e.g. the TV, rather than output from a source device like the Xbox.

Yes, I’m sure most dealers will allow returns for this issue if customers are affected by it, as they will just pass this non-sale onto the manufactures.

My questions, does the Denon ‘fix box‘ take the incoming uncompressed DSC data stream and compress it for the Panasonic chip? If so this should be ‘visually lossless‘ to humans if not mathematically - but is it still true as it’s been uncompressed and the compressed again? Plus, does this add ‘game playing‘ measurable delay?
 
After ploughing through the 148 posts all I can add is below...
... oh, and regardless of my opinions being right/wrong, I have questions at the end.


As a Chartered IT Engineer, not to be held accountable for the vagaries of the necessarily compromising AV design world, I find the HDMI 2.1 Specification very poor. I’d already read this before commencing this thread and it basically allows for implementations to use compressed and/or uncompressed data streams. So, the Panasonic chip adheres to the spec as it uses compressed.

The problem with Denon and the other mentioned AVCs is that, by using the only HDMI 2.1 available chip at the time means they cannot use 4K/120Hz or 8K/60Hz if the data is uncompressed. It‘s not the Xbox at fault either, as they chose to pass uncompressed data streams out.

So, if the specification is poor, even at fault, can the HDMI ‘consortium‘ be held to account - probably not as not for profit and not a company. The phrase used to explain the issues seen by end users is “device mismatch”, perhaps this now high profile issue will lead to more care with the HDMI standards. The issue with any specification is that they are not tested, just approved by the those that releases it. I‘d guess the next HDMI specification release might say that uncompressed data is only for use in the sink device, e.g. the TV, rather than output from a source device like the Xbox.

Yes, I’m sure most dealers will allow returns for this issue if customers are affected by it, as they will just pass this non-sale onto the manufactures.

My questions, does the Denon ‘fix box‘ take the incoming uncompressed DSC data stream and compress it for the Panasonic chip? If so this should be ‘visually lossless‘ to humans if not mathematically - but is it still true as it’s been uncompressed and the compressed again? Plus, does this add ‘game playing‘ measurable delay?
As a fellow IT professional, I think we'd agree that testing this 'box of tricks' for issues such as lag etc is very important. Hopefully this has been tested to death and some lessons have been learned from this entire situation.
 

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