NEWS: Denon and Marantz AVRs made after May 2021 are HDMI 2.1 bug free

rccarguy2

Well-known Member
Lg c9 passes dts
 

Joe C

Well-known Member

rccarguy2

Well-known Member
That was the last one to support it
Why would the do this when woke point of e-arc is the TV acts as hdmi switch?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
EDIT


It may be the case that TVs from Panasonic and Samsung launched this year lack any support for DTS.
 
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Joe C

Well-known Member

dante01

Distinguished Member
Maybe they are being offered something in return for not including support?

The only party to really gain anything appears to be Dolby? But then again, Samsung don't exactly like Dolby either.
 

LethaLLeftPeG

Standard Member
I purchased the Denon X2700 last year with the chip issue. Applied for the HDMI box a couple of months ago and heard nothing since. I contacted the retailer I bought the Receiver from and they kindly agreed to swap it out. New one arrived and the Serial number indicates its a 'new' model, i also checked the link to the HDMI switch and the serial number check indicates the HDMI box isn't required, but it will still not pass through 4k at 120hz when checking the settings on the Xbox Series X and various games. Firmware on the receiver is up to date, checked HDMI cables, even bought a new one to try and still no luck. When connecting the Xbox directly to the TV (LGCX65) I am back to 4k @120hz. Gone back to the retailer and they are coming back to me Friday. Also called Denon Tech team and they told me they had no other reports of any issues with their new receivers passing 120hz on the Xbox Series X and everything they advised me to try has not worked. It appears my 'new' model isn't bug free.......
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I purchased the Denon X2700 last year with the chip issue. Applied for the HDMI box a couple of months ago and heard nothing since. I contacted the retailer I bought the Receiver from and they kindly agreed to swap it out. New one arrived and the Serial number indicates its a 'new' model, i also checked the link to the HDMI switch and the serial number check indicates the HDMI box isn't required, but it will still not pass through 4k at 120hz when checking the settings on the Xbox Series X and various games. Firmware on the receiver is up to date, checked HDMI cables, even bought a new one to try and still no luck. When connecting the Xbox directly to the TV (LGCX65) I am back to 4k @120hz. Gone back to the retailer and they are coming back to me Friday. Also called Denon Tech team and they told me they had no other reports of any issues with their new receivers passing 120hz on the Xbox Series X and everything they advised me to try has not worked. It appears my 'new' model isn't bug free.......


Did you remember to set the 4K/8K Signal Format setting to the 8K ENHANCED option?

I only ask because you didn't mention this setting or what you had it set to. It would be set to the ENHANCED and not the 8K ENHANCED option by default.

by default 2021-09-08 at 18.58.02.png
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Sometimes the most obvious things are the things you most obviously miss :)



Glad that I could help.
 

LethaLLeftPeG

Standard Member
Indeed. Thanks again though, wasn’t sure what to do next there.

Just a FYI, richer sounds swapped my receiver out. They bumped me right to the top of the list for a replacement, but I did contact them as soon as the news about the chip was published.
 

moraybank

Active Member
So why aren't you moaning about the TV not having enough compliant inputs? Are you suggesting that an AV receiver is a requisite of owning and using a games console?

There's about 30ms of delay incurred on the video signal passiung through any and all AV receivers. As suggested, it is why serious gamers do not pass the video through an AV receiver and connect their cosoles directly to the display. An AV receiver is effectively an HDMI repeter and not simply passing the video through it. There are also other circuits associated with adding onscreen graphics and menus which are still in effect even if not engaging video processing.

Been researching 2.1 capable receivers tonight and ended up here,

I know im more than likely missing something, but in regards to input lag I saw on HDTV test of the Onkyo TX-RZ50 where Vincent tested input lag/latency and said there was no difference when being passed through?
Sorry if im completely off the mark, im genuinely not clued up on this stuff and just trying to figure out the best way to accommodate my new consoles and tv.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I'm not a gamer. I have owned a PS3, but do not own or use one of the latest consoles.

There does appear to be an opinion expressed by many gamers that conveying the video through an AV receiver will result in lag. The fact of the matter is that you'll experience some lag even if connecting the console directly to the TV.

This board's own editorial team have also suggested that you'd experience such lag during some of their podcasts while suggesting that you'd only need eARC as opposed to an HDMI 2.1 eqiuipped AVR in order to benefit from the HDMI 2.1 capabilities associated with the latest games consoles. THey suggested you'd avoid introducing latency by connecting a console directly to a display rather than passing the signal through the AVR.

It is a also fact that an AV receiver is an HDMI repeater and a repeater will delay the signal. HDMI video is not passed straight through any AV receiver directly. If it were then the length of the cables you'd be able to effectly use would be halved. As said, the AV receiver is a repeater.

Note that an HDMI repeaper copies and then regenerates the HDMI signal before outputting it. It doesn't just pass it through. It is the time that the AV receiver takes to copy the signal plus the time it then needs to feed that signal through any additional circuitry associated with adding menus and onscreen graphics that would result in a delay. It is oimpossible to not have any latency at all.

Basically speaking, it is impossible for there to be absolutely no latency if passing a signal through an AV receiver. How much and whether is is noticable is another matter.
 
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alebonau

Well-known Member
Sorry if im completely off the mark, im genuinely not clued up on this stuff and just trying to figure out the best way to accommodate my new consoles and tv.
as per sound united they for best compatibility suggest you hook up your console directly to TV and earc full band width audio back to your AVR of choice. you can use a then audio earc sharc if dont have earc... it has ways to battle lip synch as well if falling fowl to that..


you will also find vincents youtube below re current model sony a90j (that i own) where he talks through there as well why he thinks its best to go direct to display !


I know im more than likely missing something, but in regards to input lag
input lag is going to depend on display as well. will see in review below, the A90j in cinema mode can have 150ms lag ! whcih drops to around 10ms in gaming mode whcih engages automatically when i hook up my xbox series X


my jvc n7 projector has a low latency mode as well and that drops to 35ms ! at best :)

its why many serious gaming folk dont game too much on projectors...tend to use desk top setups and panels.

we our selves are not that serious gamers and have been using projectors over the years and its really fine for car racing or flight sim or other non gaming lag critical games eg first person shooters and such :)

am certainly going to check out the x box series x when turns up direct to my sony a90J :) also when my marantz gets its A board upgrade i'll try through my processor as well and see what experience that way is like :)
 

LethaLLeftPeG

Standard Member
I haven’t noticed any difference in input lag connecting through the receiver now. I play warzone and it feels exactly the same as going direct to the tv (lgcx65).
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I think that there's been a lot of speculation regarding how much latency the Sound United AVR-S960H adaptor incurs on the signal? There's also yet another potential latency creator in the guise of the new HDMI switch Sound United have unveiled. You could be not only adding a delay via the AV receiver, but also adding a delay first via the Denon AVS-3 or Marantz VS3003 3-port 8K HDMI switcher and then via the AVR-S960H adaptor before the signal even gets to the AV receiver or the display.

Why not run the HDMI signal around your scaletrix track a few times while you are at it?
 

xano91

Novice Member
“AKM and Sound United brands have a longstanding history of working together, the loss of their factory was a big blow to the audio industry. However, Denon and Marantz procurement and engineering teams are continually searching for, benchmarking and partnering to advance new technology to prepare for circumstances like this. With every new product, our leading engineering teams ensure full system integrity across thousands of individual parts to meet sound quality standards for each brand.

It was a significant effort for Denon and Marantz’s respective engineering teams to select alternative components which met the requirements and standards for both brands. Once selected, each team redesigned peripheral circuits and software, and underwent extensive sound quality evaluation and tuning by each brands’ sound masters to ensure an analogous level of performance. We are pleased to share our teams successfully maintained the DNA and characteristics of Denon and Marantz products, meeting the high standards of each brands’ Sound Masters and delivering the sound experience our loyal customers know and love.”


speech that lacks details and commitments, we feel that they do not dare to give more details

so we don't know what the AKM4490EQ chip of the Denon AVR-A110 has been replaced by?
 

vmd12

Standard Member
Could someone test the after May model with nvidia rtx 3000 series gpus? I guess Xbox works fine now but for pc is still a mystery.
 

Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
@fordster @Dobbyisfree @Hixs
of course DAC matter...they have been selling a product for 8 months with a sound quality and certain "reliability"...that products gets very good reviews..and BAM denon decides to get another chipset that sounds different....does not tell anyone about it (except on DENON japan site...) and does not send review samples to the press ?!!

The V2 DENONs are NOT the SAME as V1 DENONs that is a fact !

the new DAC's are lower grade Burrbrown and older ones compared to the ex AKM! these Burrbrown if i am not mistaking are used by old low grade yamahas (RX-v300/400/500 et v600 series !!!)

so no that is NOT GOOD news !
@Andy Bassett should update this article with this critical info !!! most people are willing to get the hdmi bug version as it has the superior AKM !!!!!

You seem to be quite an expert in DACs.

How much worse are the Burrbrown?

Do you know the answer to this, which has the better SNR:

1. Using pre-outs from x4400 (with AK4458 DACs) where only internal amps for front channel are disconnected and all others are still connected. Or

2. Using pre-outs from the latest either x3700 or x4700 with the Burrbrown DACs but running in full pre-amp mode, so all internal amps disconnected?

I realise this is hard to estimate just asking for your opinion/viewpoint please? (Or anyone else who has an opinion).
 

rccarguy2

Well-known Member
Denons don't disconnect internal amps it just doesn't send a signal to the amplifiers. Doing that increases max pre out voltage

There are no subjective or objectives comparisons between pre hdmi 2.1 akm and lower end dac revision
 

xano91

Novice Member
Denons don't disconnect internal amps it just doesn't send a signal to the amplifiers. Doing that increases max pre out voltage

There are no subjective or objectives comparisons between pre hdmi 2.1 akm and lower end dac revision
For you finally is the same big beast speaking about AVC-A110?
 

rccarguy2

Well-known Member
For you finally is the same big beast speaking about AVC-A110?

3700/4700 mainly as that has better dac on old buggy one, and new one is fixed but lower quality dac Not sure about 6700..

There's issue with dsu which effects Denon also rear channel bleed
 

nenito2k

Member
@Dobbyisfree
I am not expert in dac! Just know that the BB is older than AKM.. .
 

Joe C

Well-known Member

dante01

Distinguished Member
Seriously though, who is going to be able to hear a difference?


If you look long enough at graphs then your hearing does apparrently improve. You can also become an expert on audio engineering overnight by simply glancing at a graph?

Who knew?
 
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