Especially as it transforms a task that could require an hour or greater by a trained professional into one that can be performed in minutes. That wouldn't add a lot for the factory to do this and charge a premium price for the calibrated ones.Great for the video calibration industry.. I guess if you have the 3D LUT accuracy capability you’d be foolish not to use it. So add a few hundred to the price to have it professionally calibrated..
But this automated workflow begs the question, why not sell me a TV from the factory already calibrated.
Portrait Displays is the owning company for Calman. Article notes all 2018 LG OLED and SUPER UHD TVs will allow CalMAN direct access to internal look-up tables (1D and 3D LUTs). Although I suspect only the higher end models will support auto calibration.Sounds like a fantastic idea.
I wonder why they've only brought it to the portrait model?
Perhaps in a few years time TV's will be like receivers which bundle in a free microphone for Audyssey audio calibration and build the calibration software into the TV's plus include a meter in the box. And pigs might fly...
Especially as it transforms a task that could require an hour or greater by a trained professional into one that can be performed in minutes. That wouldn't add a lot for the factory to do this and charge a premium price for the calibrated ones.
But with this feature the cost of professional calibration may reach a new low. Can't see anyone being happy to pay £300+ for a couple of minutes in their house of a calibrators time ...
Especially as it transforms a task that could require an hour or greater by a trained professional into one that can be performed in minutes. That wouldn't add a lot for the factory to do this and charge a premium price for the calibrated ones.
But with this feature the cost of professional calibration may reach a new low. Can't see anyone being happy to pay £300+ for a couple of minutes in their house of a calibrators time ...
The quote I gave was Steve Withers words in the news article.A couple of minutes? Hardly.
Again from the article LG is the first manufacturer to allow CalMAN direct access to the underlying hardware look-up tables..... They are also the first televisions to offer three-dimensional look-up tables (3D LUTs) as one of the CalMAN accessible tables and these 3D LUTs allow correction of minute colour variances.We have already had autocal available for high end Panasonic TVs for some time in Calman.
It could though offer a dark room setting for both SDR and HDR. A dark room is a dark room surely?Indeed, environment is important. Performing an autocal in a factory can't take that into account.
In case you hadn't gathered that paragraph was very much tongue in cheek.As for £300 + for a calibration price, you can find cheaper
OK so in order of ascending accuracy and time needed to do it.The ‘performed in minutes’ calibration will be a CalMAN Lightning LUT. This isn’t a full profile.
The accurate calibration option will be the 3500-reading 3D LUT offered instead.
This takes around 90 minutes depending on the colorimeter used by the calibrator.
If a customer wants day, night, game (3D LUT), HDR and Dolby Vision it is going to take 90 minutes per SDR memory plus the time required to do the standard HDR autocal.
Then there is the time needed to verify that the LUT is good once the profiles have been run.
The ‘performed in minutes’ calibration will be a CalMAN Lightning LUT. This isn’t a full profile.
The accurate calibration option will be the 3500-reading 3D LUT offered instead.
This takes around 90 minutes depending on the colorimeter used by the calibrator.
If a customer wants day, night, game (3D LUT), HDR and Dolby Vision it is going to take 90 minutes per SDR memory plus the time required to do the standard HDR autocal.
Then there is the time needed to verify that the LUT is good once the profiles have been run.
OK so in order of ascending accuracy and time needed to do it.
As much of this process is automated and thus possibly de-skilled (which automation usually does, that after all is one of its raison d'etres) and the mention by @Canary_Jules previously "Spectracal will be doing this....to sell calibration kits to retailers such as Currys" how likely/possible would it be for Currys, or anyone else, to also rent the calibration equipment out for LG 2018 TVs user full calibration home use? Possibly giving a better ROI than doing a Geek Squad approach.
- Uncalibrated - Avforums G7 review: given this largely accurate overall performance, the benefits of a calibration will be minimal. Zero time.
- Possible premium factory or retailer pre-sale calibrated - should have highly accurate greyscale and gamma using Lightning LUT. "Minutes".
- Full calibrated - reference level colour accuracy sufficient for mastering purposes? Requires a calibrator in the home viewing environment. Many hours.
The quote I gave was Steve Withers words in the news article.
Again from the article LG is the first manufacturer to allow CalMAN direct access to the underlying hardware look-up tables..... They are also the first televisions to offer three-dimensional look-up tables (3D LUTs) as one of the CalMAN accessible tables and these 3D LUTs allow correction of minute colour variances.
So are you saying this is all nothing new at all and is being over hyped? Also mentioned in a far longer and detailed article on the underlying process involved. While many TVs have had 3D LUTs in their video pipeline for a while, the LG models are the first to offer direct access for AutoCal. This allows a level of control, and performance, that has never been available on a TV before.
https://referencehometheater.com/2018/commentary/what-is-a-3d-lut/
It could though offer a dark room setting for both SDR and HDR. A dark room is a dark room surely?
In case you hadn't gathered that paragraph was very much tongue in cheek.
OK so in order of ascending accuracy and time needed to do it.
As much of this process is automated and thus possibly de-skilled (which automation usually does, that after all is one of its raison d'etres) and the mention of @canaryjules above "Spectracal will be doing this....to sell calibration kits to retailers such as Currys" how likely/possible would it be for Currys, or anyone else, to also rent the calibration equipment out for LG 2018 TVs user full calibration home use? Possibly giving a better ROI than doing a Geek Squad approach.
- Uncalibrated - Avforums G7 review given this largely accurate overall performance, the benefits of a calibration will be minimal. Zero time.
- Possible premium factory or retailer calibrated - should have highly accurate greyscale and gamma using Lightning LUT. Minutes.
- Full calibrated - reference level colour accuracy sufficient for mastering purposes? Requires a calibrator in the home viewing environment. Many hours.
What about anybody else? Renting high value items for short term use is fairly standard.I seriously doubt that Currys would be hiring out their kits.
As Joe Bloggs I can rent well over £10K of Canon or Nikon lens as a consumer with little problem. For example: Canon 800mm L lens, cheapest retail cost today: £11899, 3 day insured rental £220 (£73pd equivalent, much cheaper pro rata for longer rentals). And take them to much more hazardous environments than a home living room (african safaris for example)....I can't see any company renting a £10K toolkit to Joe Bloggs.
Or rent the gear by the day/part week, way cheaper. If you're interested in doing this I'd recommend DougCalibrationRentals...I can see some really keen videophiles wanting to buy the gear and do their own thing
Surely depends if they can charge a premium price for them?I also seriously doubt that manufacturers are going to be doing 'dark room' calibrations anytime soon. THX and ISF modes are as far as they have wanted to go in the past and I really can't see any of them wanting to start hooking up individual TVs to signal generators and 'calibrating' in the factory.
I don't know enough about the process to debate/argue on this point but this articleOwners who seek out a professional to calibrate their display don't want 'largely accurate' they want the best possible result for their environment, sources and to a certain extent, personal preference.
The CalMAN autocal features work well but they never equal the results achieved manually by an experienced calibrator.
I don't know enough about the process to debate/argue on this point but this article
https://referencehometheater.com/2018/commentary/what-is-a-3d-lut/ does seem to suggest the automated results with the new 2018 LG Oleds will be better than from a manual calibration in the past due to the new access level now available to the TV hardware.
Directly adjusting these LUTs is something that you cannot do yourself because of the huge number of data points that need adjusting. CalMAN software will automate this process, taking multiple reads and adjusting the many points available. CalMAN has been able to do much of this for years, but it required niche products that cost thousands of dollars. Since CalMAN now has direct access to the TV hardware, it also means that it will do all the other TV adjustments as well to dial in an ideal image. The process of calibrating is automated, and can be much faster than a traditional manual calibration, but will require the appropriate hardware and software.
Obviously how this tests out in practice is the key issue. As you noted previously Oleds are prone to colour shift and white balance drift over the course of a calibration. But maybe the new models will prove to be more stable.
I would have thought that factory calibration would be done using specialised production line equipment, optimised and automated. Not some dude with a wobbly tripod, sipping a cup of weak tea and pushing the owners cat aside ;P
Regarding environmental conditions, what is there aside from light levels? No at home calibration can consider all lighting scenarios, weather conditions etc. Yet it could be better simulated in controlled conditions such as a production line.
I would expect to pay zero premium for this. I wouldn’t have thought it would be cost effective for manufacturers to have a specially treated subset of their product. I would expect all displays to meet an exacting standard, with another logo on the box to try to stand out from the competition.
It’s then up to individuals to decide if they trust manufacturers claims and based on expert reviews decide whether to shell out more for a professional to pay a visit. But I bet the gains from this would be negligible.
I don't follow how a manual pass can fine tune an auto pass when there are so many control adjustment points involved. The SDR calibration uses 1D LUT and 33x33x33 3D LUT calibration (giving 30,000+ adjustment points). From what you are saying the software doesn't seem to follow an iterative process to fine tune itself and seems a bit hit and miss as to its results.I was referring to the current autocal versus manual adjustments. I frequently run the autocal and then fine tune afterwards as the errors can be improved further.
A large 3D LUT profile is currently needed via an external source for LG OLEDs. I don't see this changing with the 2018 range. This will take more time not less....
The question would be how inaccurate it could become with minor changes of only Oled light from say 40 to 45?The factory calibration could be perfect but as soon as one or more parameters are changed (OLED light, contrast, black level) from their default settings it will be inaccurate once again.
I don't follow how a manual pass can fine tune an auto pass when there are so many control adjustment points involved. The SDR calibration uses 1D LUT and 33x33x33 3D LUT calibration (giving 30,000+ adjustment points). From what you are saying the software doesn't seem to follow an iterative process to fine tune itself and seems a bit hit and miss as to its results.
Re time I've seen mention of 7 hours minimum for the new LGs and autocal version. But I'm guessing that is just speculation at the moment.
The question would be how inaccurate it could become with minor changes of only Oled light from say 40 to 45?
Contrast and black level could be locked down in this factory calibration for dark room. Oled light could also be locked or restricted to a small +/- adjustment range. As the sets have so many modes available a locked 'perfect' one is no big deal.
You seem to be talking from a what is now standpoint compared to my what may/will be one with the new TVs. The new 1D autocal does all of that and more AFAIK. The only user variable seems to be Oled Light setting.I am referring to the standard (non 3D LUT) autocal. Further adjustments are needed after the automated part of the process to achieve good results. This will apply to HDR 10 and Dolby Vision.
The display still needs to be set up properly prior to running the LUT profile.
Take a look at the number of enthusiast calibrators who have had to run a 17x17x17 cube over and over again to get good results because they didn’t realise how to optimise the TV first.
Unless the factory calibration was within the usual range of home dark room calibrations, perhaps listening to customer feedback, "the dark preset you are using is too bright, please turn down Oled Light to a normal level". Optimum factory cal could then be made at the Oled Light mid point on the scale of +/- values which wouldn't throw out a calibration.The current dark room preset requires a much larger change than five clicks to bring it down to a comfortable viewing level. That would throw out a factory calibration.
You seem to be talking from a what is now standpoint compared to my what may/will be one with the new TVs. The new 1D autocal does all of that and more AFAIK. The only user variable seems to be Oled Light setting.
Unless the factory calibration was within the usual range of home dark room calibrations, perhaps listening to customer feedback, "the dark preset you are using is too bright, please turn down Oled Light to a normal level". Optimum factory cal could then be made at the Oled Light mid point on the scale of +/- values which wouldn't throw out a calibration.